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Dealing with "No Weapons on Allowed on Property" (Vanity)

Posted on 04/30/2012 1:22:04 PM PDT by Sopater

Relying on the anonymity of FR, I'm hoping for some candid discussion on how members deal with the "No Weapons on Property" prohibitions if they carry concealed. In WI, the fine is up to $500 and up to 30 days in jail for carrying on a property where it posted that weapons are prohibited.


TOPICS: Business/Economy
KEYWORDS: ccw; concealedcarry; guns; weapons
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The way I see it, as long as I don't display a weapon, I won't be fined. But if I needed to use a weapon in such a place, I'd weigh my options carefully.
1 posted on 04/30/2012 1:22:14 PM PDT by Sopater
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To: Sopater

Some send a polite letter explaining “I’d like to be a patron of your establishment, but the sign indicates you don’t want my kind around. Just thought you should know I’ll be taking my money elsewhere.” Many such signs have come down as a result.


2 posted on 04/30/2012 1:24:59 PM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: Sopater

If it is a place of business ..take your business elsewhere


3 posted on 04/30/2012 1:25:48 PM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: Sopater
But if I needed to use a weapon in such a place, I'd weigh my options carefully.

If you HAD to use it what's there to weigh? Being out $500 and maybe a month in jail or possible DEAD?

Easy choice, really.

4 posted on 04/30/2012 1:26:32 PM PDT by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I shall defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: Sopater

Does it say”weapons” or “guns”? If it says “weapons” how is that defined? It sounds like the law may be too vague to be enforceable. I taught martial arts for 15 years and I can make a deadly “weapon” out of a rolled up magazine.


5 posted on 04/30/2012 1:26:56 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (I like Obamacare because Granny signed the will and I need the cash)
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To: Sopater

Do NOT carry on such premises. You could lose your right to carry forever.

It’s sounds stupid, because you might be thinking, “But I could lose my life!” As other posters have suggested - just go somewhere else.


6 posted on 04/30/2012 1:27:35 PM PDT by bolobaby
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To: Sopater

Personally, I think I would respect their private property rights and simply inform them, as others have stated, that I won’t patronize their business (if that is an option) due to this.

Unfortunately, going against their private property rights may result in lawsuits that could jeopardize the concealed carry laws. You just need one activist judge in the pipe. Don’t give the anti-gun folks any opportunity to attack rights.


7 posted on 04/30/2012 1:28:02 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: Sopater

Rule 0: Don’t tell them you are carrying.


8 posted on 04/30/2012 1:28:34 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Sopater

Like so many other things if you don’t get caught it really isn’t against the law. And really with a weapon situation if something happens where you need to be armed a $500 fine is better than dead.


9 posted on 04/30/2012 1:30:29 PM PDT by discostu (I did it 35 minutes ago)
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To: Sopater

Use your head. If the property owner says Don’t Carry, then Don’t. Carry. It’s pretty simple....

Unless you want to spend many thousands of dollars defending your “rights”...or risk losing them, or worse.


10 posted on 04/30/2012 1:30:59 PM PDT by bigbob
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To: Vaquero

leave a business card stating why you and friends won’t spend $ there.

http://www.persecusa.com/html/free/freestuff-merchantcards.htm


11 posted on 04/30/2012 1:31:15 PM PDT by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: Sopater

Take your business elsewhere, or just don’t show off the weapon.


12 posted on 04/30/2012 1:31:28 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Sopater

Let me also put it this way:

You may not only lose your right to carry, but every firearm in your possession. All that has to happen is for you to get arrested, someone decides you shouldn’t possess firearms while the case is adjudicated, and then the guns are NEVER given back.

Is that a $500 fine in your case, or a $5000 fine?

Case in point: I once had a knife confiscated by the cops after some guy attacked me with a baseball bat. *The knife was never on my person during the assault*, I never pulled the knife in defense, and there was a stack of witness testimony that just said I beat the guy back with my fists, but I never saw that knife again.

Get it?


13 posted on 04/30/2012 1:33:16 PM PDT by bolobaby
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To: Sopater
I generally burst into such an establishment looking like this:


14 posted on 04/30/2012 1:33:29 PM PDT by Lazamataz (Admin Moderator refuses to let me hit it. -- http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2875871/posts)
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To: Sopater

Do they have a large sign on every entrance door? Most places I’ve seen only have one very small sticker on only one entrance door and its just a handgun in a circle with a diagonal line. I always figured I’d just say I never saw the little tiny sticker...I went in through a different door that didn’t have the sticker.


15 posted on 04/30/2012 1:33:56 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: Sopater
I generally burst into such an establishment looking like this:


16 posted on 04/30/2012 1:34:46 PM PDT by Lazamataz (Admin Moderator refuses to let me hit it. -- http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2875871/posts)
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To: Lazamataz

Whut??

No hot babe at your side, Laz?


17 posted on 04/30/2012 1:36:00 PM PDT by RandallFlagg (Look for the union label, then buy elsewhere.)
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To: Sopater

How much do you need to go there? I just stay out of those establishments. If you need to go and there is a chance of a patdown (e.g. sporting events, concerts, etc), you leave the gun in the car. If there is no chance of a patdown, I consider the neighborhood and decide appropriately.

Some posters here claim that 30 days in jail is easy and worth carrying their gun (which would be a weapon’s offense and probably cost them their CCW for life). Most of us would lose our jobs if we spent a single work day in jail.

My advice is just avoid the business. Tell them why.


18 posted on 04/30/2012 1:36:50 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: Sopater

I would either not carry or not go in.

I’m not worried about the fine, $500 in the grand scheme of things is nothing, I don’t want to lose my carry permit forever.

With my luck, I’d slip on a wet floor, the gun would show and I’d be talking to the cops.


19 posted on 04/30/2012 1:38:07 PM PDT by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: mamelukesabre

Where I live that is a legal defense - it was not properly marked. Also where I live it is only considered a trespassing charge. And that is if they notice it and they ask you to leave and you don’t.

The big one for me is the schools. So far I have remained legal and not carried going to my kid’s schools.


20 posted on 04/30/2012 1:41:59 PM PDT by 21twelve
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To: RandallFlagg

She drew the picture don’tchaknow.


21 posted on 04/30/2012 1:42:48 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: RandallFlagg

The eagle is a female.


22 posted on 04/30/2012 1:42:58 PM PDT by Lazamataz (Admin Moderator refuses to let me hit it. -- http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2875871/posts)
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To: Sopater

If I saw a sign like that I would avoid the place because it’s an open invitation to maniacs like that guy that shot up the Luby’s in Texas or that Korean that opened fire on those college kids in Virginia.

They know that no one is armed to stop their rampage.


23 posted on 04/30/2012 1:45:41 PM PDT by Bon of Babble (The Road to Ruin is Always Kept in Good Repair)
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To: Sopater

Does it say”weapons” or “guns”? If it says “weapons” how is that defined? It sounds like the law may be too vague to be enforceable. I taught martial arts for 15 years and I can make a deadly “weapon” out of a rolled up magazine.

_______________________

I agree with this statement. Your fists/hands can be a weapon. Your car keys can be a weapon. Your pocket knife, ink pen... etc...etc... Are you then required to amputate yourself in order to patronize this establishment? Screw em. Go elsewhere.


24 posted on 04/30/2012 1:46:18 PM PDT by sueQ
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To: Sopater

Honor their property rights, bypass their establishment and, if you must enter and something dreadful should happen, sue the ever-lovin’ carp out of them for failure to execute their implied duty to defend you when they denied your right to self-defense. One or two of those cases goes toward a win and we might see a rethink of the gun-free-victim-rich zone signs.


25 posted on 04/30/2012 1:46:29 PM PDT by NonValueAdded (SpaceX Dragon launch to ISS, Cape Canaveral AFS, May 7, 9:38 AM EDT)
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To: Puppage
If you HAD to use it what's there to weigh? Being out $500 and maybe a month in jail or possible DEAD?

Yes, an easy choice.
26 posted on 04/30/2012 1:46:45 PM PDT by Sopater (...where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. - 2 COR 3:17b)
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To: Sopater

Respect property rights


27 posted on 04/30/2012 1:47:21 PM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: Sopater

I think that respect for the Rule of Law requires adherence to the letter of the law: the vendor’s property rights as well as the criminal statute. Don’t patronize such businesses, and tell them in writing why you are not patronizing them.


28 posted on 04/30/2012 1:47:33 PM PDT by Unknowing (Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.)
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To: Lazamataz

You need some support panty hose there man.


29 posted on 04/30/2012 1:48:35 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Sopater

In my state, if you carry in a prohibited place and get caught, you lose your license and possibly prosecuted. I wouldn’t chance it. If it is an optional visit, I’d make sure that place lost my business, permanently - and I’d let the owner know.


30 posted on 04/30/2012 1:52:02 PM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Sopater

If the property owner prohibits you from coming onto his property with a gun, then you have to obey. Its called private property rights... you have the choice of either not patronizing the establishment or leaving your gun behind. Its as simple as that.


31 posted on 04/30/2012 1:53:38 PM PDT by RayBob (If guns kill people, can I blame misspelled words on my keyboard?)
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To: NonValueAdded
Honor their property rights, bypass their establishment and, if you must enter and something dreadful should happen, sue the ever-lovin’ carp out of them for failure to execute their implied duty to defend you when they denied your right to self-defense.

Good advice. Although I don't see myself as "sue happy", there are some instances in which the whole point is to make a point.
32 posted on 04/30/2012 1:53:38 PM PDT by Sopater (...where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. - 2 COR 3:17b)
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To: Sopater

In Texas, read the sign carefully. Most of them say the Unlicensed gun is prohibited. IOW, if you have a C & C license, you’re good to go into the establishment.


33 posted on 04/30/2012 1:59:04 PM PDT by basil (It's time to rid the country of "gun free zones" aka "Killing Fields")
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To: Sopater

Simple reality, you want your rights respected you should respect others. If a private property owner has a posted no guns allowed, respect it, or just don’t go there.

You can’t assert and gripe about your rights needing to be respected if you won’t respect others as well.


34 posted on 04/30/2012 2:00:53 PM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: ctdonath2

That is supposed to be the purview of the NRA but they seem to be getting more cowardly, kowtowing and co-opted with each passing day.


35 posted on 04/30/2012 2:01:17 PM PDT by Kevmo (Judicaret spectator se ipso: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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To: Sopater

In Iowa you can carry on their property but must leave if they tell you to leave. If you refuse then they can involve the police and you will lose your permit to carry.

I carry concealed and have never had a problem. My BIL carries open and has actually caused some businesses to post “no guns allowed on property” because he wants to show everyone he is armed.

I myself like the edge concealed carry gives me. The element of surprise is a good thing.


36 posted on 04/30/2012 2:02:18 PM PDT by Jack Burton007 (This is Jack Burton in the Pork Chop Express, and I'm talkin' to whoever's listenin' out there.)
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To: Lazamataz

I can’t believe you let your eagle smoke! Don’t you know that second-hand eagle smoke kills 7 million people and small puppies every hour?! It is also the major cause of global warming, budget deficits and Lady Gaga. How selfish of you!


37 posted on 04/30/2012 2:03:33 PM PDT by tnlibertarian (I <3 PEJSWDTDSOPC)
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To: All

It’s hard to argue with the “respect their property rights” argument. I think I’ll heed that advice and not patronize the establishment. I’ll also send a letter to the establishment so that they can note my complaint and consider their policy.


38 posted on 04/30/2012 2:04:02 PM PDT by Sopater (...where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. - 2 COR 3:17b)
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To: Lazamataz

Now what you need to improve that picture is a stylized hero version of Sarah Palin at his side ready to kick butt and I’d post that picture as far and wide as I can!


39 posted on 04/30/2012 2:12:33 PM PDT by mdmathis6 (Kiss the Son!)
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To: 21twelve

My current house is within 400 feet of a public gradeschool so I don’t give a ratsass about that stupidass law.


40 posted on 04/30/2012 2:18:17 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: RayBob

“Its called private property rights”

Funny, while you are on your highhorse about private proeprty rights you don’t seem to mention the person as private property and the rights of that property, such has the right to self defense and private concealment. What’s next, the right to search my wallet?


41 posted on 04/30/2012 2:19:28 PM PDT by CodeToad
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To: Sopater

That’s their property. They don’t even have to allow you to set foot on it. I don’t allow strangers to come on my property with weapons. And no, it wouldn’t be physically possible, either.


42 posted on 04/30/2012 2:21:15 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: CodeToad
What’s next, the right to search my wallet?

A property owner is within his natural rights to make your entry conditional on you submitting your wallet for inspection - and you are within your natural rights to decline those terms and not enter.

43 posted on 04/30/2012 2:23:32 PM PDT by JustSayNoToNannies (A free society's default policy: it's none of government's business.)
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To: Sopater
how members deal with the "No Weapons on Property" prohibitions

If it's private property then it's a no brainer..respect their rules.

44 posted on 04/30/2012 2:24:51 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (My 6 pack abs are now a full keg......)
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To: All

Respect their private property rights but let them know very politely that you will not shop etc. there.


45 posted on 04/30/2012 2:25:42 PM PDT by ciaocotc
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To: Paladin2
Rule 0: Don’t tell them you are carrying.

Rule 0.1: When hunting on private land that is posted with "No Hunting" signs, hide your firearm if you are caught and simply tell them you are just out hiking........

46 posted on 04/30/2012 2:29:27 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (My 6 pack abs are now a full keg......)
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To: Sopater

So the story goes like this: Our former county prosecutor and huge concealed carry proponent starts to walk into a local big chain supermarket and notices the “No Gun” sign.

He calls the store and ask the manager to meet him outside the building. He then tells the manager that as a former prosecutor but now civilian he must be able to protect himself but cannot if he must disarm before entering the store. He tells the manager that he will hold him personally responsible as would his estate should he be harmed or killed while on the store property since the manager assumed a level of extraordinary care and liability by disarming the patrons. The store manager promptly removed the sign. BTW this big chain does not have those signs up anywhere so it was a call made by the manager.


47 posted on 04/30/2012 2:32:11 PM PDT by FreedomNotSafety
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To: JustSayNoToNannies

The ultimate property is a person.


48 posted on 04/30/2012 2:32:11 PM PDT by CodeToad
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To: ctdonath2
Some send a polite letter explaining “I’d like to be a patron of your establishment, but the sign indicates you don’t want my kind around. Just thought you should know I’ll be taking my money elsewhere.” Many such signs have come down as a result.

Sounds like a reasonable plan of action.Of course a business owner has the right to ban firearms from private property just as certainly as we have the right to ban "Schemes Of My Father" from our private homes.Make them feel it in the bottom line.

49 posted on 04/30/2012 2:32:14 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Unlike Mrs Obama,I've Been Proud Of This Country My *Entire* Life!)
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To: Sopater

What if, someone with a valid CHL, gets hurt or killed by a criminal on said premises and his/her dependent(s) sues the owner of said premises, arguing that the victim could have survived if he/she had been allowed to carry and use the defensive means(guns) legally allowed by local and state authorities?

Can’t the survivor(s) sue the hell out of the owner of the property?

If not, why not? Wasn’t the victim allowed to defend himself as guaranteed by the authorities of the state he resides in?


50 posted on 04/30/2012 2:33:38 PM PDT by 353FMG
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