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Once Upon a Time, the Universe Was Really Weird
Discovery.com ^ | 3/21/11 | Ian O'Neill

Posted on 03/21/2011 12:42:01 PM PDT by LibWhacker

Today, looking out across a seemingly boundless cosmos filled with an unimaginable variety of exotic objects, it's easy to forget that the Universe we currently admire is the product of a violent event that occurred 13.75 billion years ago.

As we know, the leading theory for universal birth is the Big Bang, where everything came from nothing, in a single energetic burst of inexplicable creation. So, if we turn back the clock back 13.75 billion years, what would we see?

My instinct would be to say "energy, the Universe was filled with pure, violent energy," but according to some mind-bending work by Jonas Mureika from Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles, Calif., and Dejan Stojkovic from SUNY at Buffalo in Buffalo, New York, the answer may be a little more complicated than that. In fact, it may be so weird that we can't even imagine what it would have been like.

According to an interview with PhysOrg.com, Mureika and Stojkovic have calculated that the early universe didn't only possess a hot, energetic primordial state of matter, but it also had a primordial state of dimensions.

If they're correct, the three dimensions of space and one dimension of time that make the four-dimensional spacetime we live in today isn't how it's always been -- the Universe may have existed in a lower dimensional state in the past.

The Universe, But Not As We Know It

The thinking goes like this: Shortly after the Big Bang, the Universe possessed only one dimension of space and one dimension of time. It was basically a straight line. As the Universe began to cool, and expanded, this one dimension of space became "wrapped up" in such a way to create two dimensions of space and one of time -- a plane, like a sheet of flat paper.

The transition from one to two dimensions of space was calculated by the researchers to occur when the Universe "cooled" to an energy level of 100 TeV (tera-electron volts, a measurement of energy commonly used in particle physics). A period of time after that, the Universe continued to expand and cool until it reached an energy of 1 TeV. At this point, the Universe got promoted to a higher dimension; three dimensions of space and one dimension of time, i.e., the Universe we live in today.

Mureika and Stojkovic think the Universe will eventually be promoted again, to a five-dimensional state, at some point in the future.

Evidence in Cosmic Rays?

This is all well and good, but isn't it just a fanciful notion that our universal dimensions are evolving to higher and higher states? Even though string theory predicts there could be many dimensions and those weird hypothetical Higgs singlets (yes, the ones that kill grandfathers) need to travel through a fifth dimension for their time-traveling shenanigans, what's the evidence for the Universe existing at lower dimensional states?

It turns out that Mureika and Stojkovic may have found some of that much needed evidence: When measuring cosmic ray particles with energies above 1 TeV, they appear to align themselves to a two-dimensional plane. "This means that, above a certain energy level, particles propagate in two dimensions rather than three dimensions," the PhysOrg.com article clarifies.

This effect would suggest these very high energy cosmic rays originated from a period of time before the Universe acquired three spatial dimensions.

It gets better. As gravity cannot exist in 1- or 2-dimensional space, if we ever detect a gravitational wave signal, there should be a very strong cut-off in gravitational wave frequency. This cut-off could represent the transition of when space changed from a 2-dimensional to 3-dimensional state. Gravitational waves can only exist in three-dimensional space!

Also, the particle physicists' Swiss Army Knife of particle accelerators, the Large Hadron Collider (LHC), may be able to probe this 1 TeV transition when colliding particles beyond these energies -- if a two-dimensional signal is received, perhaps that is evidence of this dimension-energy relationship.

So What?

Apart from trying to prove the early Universe was a very weird one-dimensional straight line, how else would this research be useful?

There are a huge number of cosmological conundrums that don't seem to "fit" with our current knowledge of the Universe (hint: dark energy and dark matter), so the dimensional "evolution" of our Universe might be able to help.

But how could we even begin to comprehend what a "lower-dimensional" Universe would have been like? Well, that would be like trying to describe a three-dimensional object to a two-dimensional lifeform, in reverse, but I'll let Carl Sagan explain that bit:


TOPICS: Astronomy; Science
KEYWORDS: dimensions; space; stringtheory; time; universe; xplanets
Perhaps a slightly more comprehensible article about this than the one SunkenCiv posted the other day. But no less mind-blowing!
1 posted on 03/21/2011 12:42:03 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: SunkenCiv

Ping!


2 posted on 03/21/2011 12:42:53 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: LibWhacker

Sounds kind of like Flat Stanley!


3 posted on 03/21/2011 12:44:36 PM PDT by ConjunctionJunction
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To: LibWhacker

If we get an additional dimension, am I going to have to buy more clothes?


4 posted on 03/21/2011 12:46:05 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: LibWhacker

If we get an additional dimension, am I going to have to buy more clothes?


5 posted on 03/21/2011 12:46:18 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN

Beyond it is another dimension - a dimension of sound, a dimension of sight, a dimension of mind.

So no you don’t need to wear clothes there, unless you want to.


6 posted on 03/21/2011 12:48:59 PM PDT by DManA
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To: DManA
"So no you don’t need to wear clothes there, unless you want to."

Yeah, I've heard that before. I think I'll wait to see what other people are doing.

7 posted on 03/21/2011 12:51:29 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN

Probably not, but you better make sure you give the ‘correct’ answer when your wife/significant-other asks the question: Does this additional dimension make my butt look big?


8 posted on 03/21/2011 12:51:29 PM PDT by WayneS (Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm. -- James Madison)
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To: LibWhacker
So, 13.75 illion years ago ... there was nothing and the nothing became tired of being nothing so the nothing which had neither thought or reason, decided to be something. Then without energy or purpose all of the nothing gathered at one tiny (though not measurable as there was nothing to measure with) spot and everything then was created out of the nothingness. Then the nothing, having become something, expanded far and wide then became ordered by the rules of nothing so that all of the nothing, now everything might follow the previously nonexistent rules. Further, with the addition of the magic of time (one of the dimensions of the nothing) the universe became ordered and arraigned itself so that at a random place, random bits of energy and material would link together and become life.

What a giant leap of faith if you ask me.

9 posted on 03/21/2011 12:52:23 PM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: LibWhacker
I have a real problem with "scientists" who state unequivocally what the universe was like 14,000,000,000 years ago. Most are not real scientists since they begin with a preconceived notion and employ a lot of fantasy and wishful thinking in order to sell people (and fund $$$!) their theories.

Then, next month, they discover a tiny wrinkle which refutes everything they said. However, they will be just as unequivocal in the certainty of their next theory.

BTW, did you know that coffee is bad for you? Oh, wait. Now, it's good for you. Oops. My bad. Now, it's bad for you... until the next "study".

10 posted on 03/21/2011 12:52:34 PM PDT by Dr. Thorne (Buy Gold and Guns Now!)
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To: LibWhacker

“Mr. Science has the really big question today, Bobby. ‘Was the universe created by a big bang?’ Hmmm. You know the Mr. Science motto, ‘Doing Is Knowing!”. We have here a five pound can of black powder. Let’s set it off and see! Wow. That blew a hole right through the roof. Are you OK camerman Steve? Once again, science triumphs over superstition! ‘Was the universe created by a big bang?’ The answer is ‘No, Insurance was created by a big bang.’ Remember viewers, Mr. Science will be at the Harrison Street Mall this Saturday from noon to four demonstrating The Big Bang Theory. Look for me in the hearing aid store.”


11 posted on 03/21/2011 12:52:34 PM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: WayneS
"Probably not, but you better make sure you give the ‘correct’ answer when your wife/significant-other asks the question: Does this additional dimension make my butt look big?"

On the show "Scrubs", the black guy told the white guy, "the only difference between a black girl and a white girl is that when a black girl asks you if these jeans make my butt look big, you BETTER say YES!"

12 posted on 03/21/2011 12:53:17 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: LibWhacker

“Mr. Science has the really big question today, Bobby. ‘Was the universe created by a big bang?’ Hmmm. You know the Mr. Science motto, ‘Doing Is Knowing!”. We have here a five pound can of black powder. Let’s set it off and see! Wow. That blew a hole right through the roof. Are you OK camerman Steve? Once again, science triumphs over superstition! ‘Was the universe created by a big bang?’ The answer is ‘No, Insurance was created by a big bang.’ Remember viewers, Mr. Science will be at the Harrison Street Mall this Saturday from noon to four demonstrating The Big Bang Theory. Look for me in the hearing aid store.”


13 posted on 03/21/2011 12:53:49 PM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: LibWhacker

As opposed to now?


14 posted on 03/21/2011 12:59:40 PM PDT by RichInOC (No! BAD Rich! (What'd I say?))
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To: taxcontrol
What a giant leap of faith if you ask me.

Nope, not at all - just the conclusion drawn from the evidence we have so far, which points to an expanding universe and therefore implies an age and initial state for the universe.
15 posted on 03/21/2011 12:59:55 PM PDT by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: AnotherUnixGeek; kosta50; taxcontrol

The giant leap of faith is considering sentient entities that exist beyond time - a logical impossibility because without time, there can be no separation between the acts performed by the said sentient being. If you bring in time, such entities themselves have a beginning.


16 posted on 03/21/2011 1:04:03 PM PDT by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: DannyTN

If we get an additional dimension, am I going to have to buy more clothes?

No. The future universe will be fully clothed. Which is to say that the picture we have of this universe (of the galaxies known and plotted) bears a resemblance to a standing man with arms held out to his side.


17 posted on 03/21/2011 1:09:55 PM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now it is your turn ...)
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To: LibWhacker
It hasn't gotten any more normal:


18 posted on 03/21/2011 1:13:41 PM PDT by Our man in washington
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To: James C. Bennett; AnotherUnixGeek; taxcontrol
The giant leap of faith is considering sentient entities that exist beyond time - a logical impossibility because without time, there can be no separation between the acts performed by the said sentient being. If you bring in time, such entities themselves have a beginning.

yeah, but they will tell you (they possess knowledge) that such a being is not "bound" by logic either...(because they say so!).

19 posted on 03/21/2011 1:17:34 PM PDT by kosta50
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To: DannyTN

No. You’d look rather flat from a fourth dimensional viewpoint.


20 posted on 03/21/2011 1:40:54 PM PDT by Jonty30
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To: LibWhacker

So let’s expand. IF you could travel to the very point at which this universe came into being, what you would find is an almost impenetrable wall because the force that got through it from some other universe was so small, so heavy, so compact, and so strong, and the point of entry so minute, that you could never get back through it. The shockwave from THAT is still moving, expanding outward, expanding this universe. ONE tiny thing that contained the entire set of building blocks for this universe blew a hole in that wall, pushing something before it and pulling something more after it and the wall closed behind it.

It was quite like shooting a bullet from a handgun into ice. When the bullet hits the ice, it spins rapidly giving it a spiral effect. The bullet spins. So whatever came through did not enter a heated or superheated space. It, itself, was superheated. It hit extreme cold and blew up sending anything around it into a circular explosive motion creating a spiral. Everything in this cosmos has a spiral effect. I am saying that the universe itself is a spiral, not just the galaxies it spawns. Super hot into icy cold.
It can, and will be, done again with something LIKE the Hadron collider...though I don’t think we have even come close to making something powerful enough to have that effect.
ONE eensy-weensy superheated something will blow through the edge of this universe into an icy cold void and begin a new one. You won’t see it. You won’t hear it. You won’t even know it. It might have already been done many times by someones/somethings we can only imagine.
And whatever goes there, will be on the same order as this because this contains all that there is from the previous universe and the next will contain exactly the same thing. The only difference will be what form life takes.
I believe in G-d and there is no heresy or blasphemy in what I am saying. If you would like to try an experiment, grab a sheet of paper and a ton of black lead pencils. Put a dot on the sheet of paper. THAT is the first universe.Then continue dotting the paper until it is completely covered. Do it again to the same sheet of paper over and over until you run out of pencils. You could conceivably do that in YOUR forever until all the pencils in the world were used up...but the point is, after you have run out of pencils, can you possibly find that ONE dot that you started with?
Then try to imagine infinity.
The mind that controls the hand that holds he pencil that makes the first dot is G-d, and it isn’t a matter to me of if, but when, and that will always be the question. The mystery of eternity.
Yep. Call me crazy. It’s okay. I have been called worse.


21 posted on 03/21/2011 1:57:02 PM PDT by MestaMachine (Note: I do NOT capitalize anything I don't respect...like obama and/or islam...but I repeat myself.)
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To: LibWhacker

>> Mureika and Stojkovic think the Universe will eventually be promoted again, to a five-dimensional state, at some point in the future. <<

So the multi-dimensional universes of Hawkins and string theorists is now out of vogue? Or are they not saying that the universe is “gaining” dimensions, so much as its dimensions are permitting intercourse between positions?

And yes I know “intercourse...positions” , har dee har har, probe uranis, whatever.


22 posted on 03/21/2011 2:17:06 PM PDT by dangus
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To: LibWhacker

>> Mureika and Stojkovic think the Universe will eventually be promoted again, to a five-dimensional state, at some point in the future. <<

So the multi-dimensional universes of Hawkins and string theorists is now out of vogue? Or are they not saying that the universe is “gaining” dimensions, so much as its dimensions are permitting intercourse between positions?

And yes I know “intercourse...positions” , har dee har har, probe uranis, whatever.


23 posted on 03/21/2011 2:17:15 PM PDT by dangus
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To: LibWhacker

>> Mureika and Stojkovic think the Universe will eventually be promoted again, to a five-dimensional state, at some point in the future. <<

So the multi-dimensional universes of Hawkins and string theorists is now out of vogue? Or are they not saying that the universe is “gaining” dimensions, so much as its dimensions are permitting intercourse between positions?

And yes I know “intercourse...positions” , har dee har har, probe uranis, whatever.


24 posted on 03/21/2011 2:18:09 PM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus

O crud. My posts have expanded into three dimensions as well.


25 posted on 03/21/2011 2:20:58 PM PDT by dangus
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To: DannyTN

>> Yeah, I’ve heard that before. I think I’ll wait to see what other people are doing. <<

ROTFL.

“Of course it’s a costume party!”


26 posted on 03/21/2011 2:23:24 PM PDT by dangus
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To: LibWhacker
Mureika and Stojkovic think the Universe will eventually be promoted again, to a five-dimensional state, at some point in the future.

COMING SOON!!!


27 posted on 03/21/2011 2:39:07 PM PDT by DrewsDad (Environmental Extremism Eventually Endangers Everyone)
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To: LibWhacker; KevinDavis; annie laurie; garbageseeker; Knitting A Conundrum; Viking2002; ...

Thanks LibWhacker!
 
X-Planets
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28 posted on 03/22/2011 5:30:30 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: AdmSmith; bvw; callisto; ckilmer; dandelion; ganeshpuri89; gobucks; KevinDavis; Las Vegas Dave; ...

Thanks LibWhacker!

· String Theory Ping List ·
721 posted on 04/24/2007 8:14:42 PM PDT by DocRock
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29 posted on 03/22/2011 5:30:59 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: LibWhacker
but it also had a primordial state of dimensions.

I'm always hesitant to swallow anything non-repeatable that points to M-Theory.

But that's only because I consider M-Theory to be grant-gathering bullsquish.

30 posted on 03/23/2011 11:03:25 AM PDT by Dr. Sheldon Cooper (If Mohammed were alive today, he wouldnÂ’t be allowed to live within 1000 yards of a school.)
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