Posted on 03/05/2011 4:17:47 PM PST by FatherofFive
Fremont did more than just state that the war was to free the slaves, he announced his own emancipation program in 1861 when he was installed as the military governor of Missouri.
Lincoln revoked Fremont’s emancipation decree and relieved him from command, fearing that Fremont’s decree would drive other border states into supporting the Confederacy.
You sound like a typical victim of government education. IMHO, Jefferson was more opposed to slavery than Lincoln was, and Jefferson owned slaves.
ML/NJ
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| Secession Timeline various sources |
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| [Although very late in the war Lee wanted freedom offered to any of the slaves who would agree to fight for the Confederacy, practically no one was stupid enough to fall for that. In any case, Lee was definitely not fighting to end slavery, instead writing that black folks are better off in bondage than they were free in Africa, and regardless, slavery will be around until Providence decides, and who are we to second guess that? And the only reason the masters beat their slaves is because of the abolitionists.] Robert E. Lee letter -- "...There are few, I believe, in this enlightened age, who will not acknowledge that slavery as an institution is a moral and political evil. It is idle to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it is a greater evil to the white than to the colored race. While my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more deeply engaged for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, physically, and socially. The painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary for their further instruction as a race, and will prepare them, I hope, for better things. How long their servitude may be necessary is known and ordered by a merciful Providence. Their emancipation will sooner result from the mild and melting influences of Christianity than from the storm and tempest of fiery controversy. This influence, though slow, is sure. The doctrines and miracles of our Saviour have required nearly two thousand years to convert but a small portion of the human race, and even among Christian nations what gross errors still exist! While we see the course of the final abolition of human slavery is still onward, and give it the aid of our prayers, let us leave the progress as well as the results in the hands of Him who, chooses to work by slow influences, and with whom a thousand years are but as a single day. Although the abolitionist must know this, must know that he has neither the right not the power of operating, except by moral means; that to benefit the slave he must not excite angry feelings in the master..." |
December 27, 1856 |
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| Platform of the Alabama Democracy -- the first Dixiecrats wanted to be able to expand slavery into the territories. It was precisely the issue of slavery that drove secession -- and talk about "sovereignty" pertained to restrictions on slavery's expansion into the territories. | January 1860 |
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| Abraham Lincoln nominated by Republican Party | May 18, 1860 |
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| Abraham Lincoln elected | November 6, 1860 |
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| Robert Toombs, Speech to the Georgia Legislature -- "...In 1790 we had less than eight hundred thousand slaves. Under our mild and humane administration of the system they have increased above four millions. The country has expanded to meet this growing want, and Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, Arkansas, Kentucky, Tennessee, and Missouri, have received this increasing tide of African labor; before the end of this century, at precisely the same rate of increase, the Africans among us in a subordinate condition will amount to eleven millions of persons. What shall be done with them? We must expand or perish. We are constrained by an inexorable necessity to accept expansion or extermination. Those who tell you that the territorial question is an abstraction, that you can never colonize another territory without the African slavetrade, are both deaf and blind to the history of the last sixty years. All just reasoning, all past history, condemn the fallacy. The North understand it better - they have told us for twenty years that their object was to pen up slavery within its present limits - surround it with a border of free States, and like the scorpion surrounded with fire, they will make it sting itself to death." | November 13, 1860 |
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| Alexander H. Stephens -- "...The first question that presents itself is, shall the people of Georgia secede from the Union in consequence of the election of Mr. Lincoln to the Presidency of the United States? My countrymen, I tell you frankly, candidly, and earnestly, that I do not think that they ought. In my judgment, the election of no man, constitutionally chosen to that high office, is sufficient cause to justify any State to separate from the Union. It ought to stand by and aid still in maintaining the Constitution of the country. To make a point of resistance to the Government, to withdraw from it because any man has been elected, would put us in the wrong. We are pledged to maintain the Constitution." | November 14, 1860 |
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| South Carolina | December 20, 1860 |
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| Mississippi | January 9, 1861 |
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| Florida | January 10, 1861 |
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| Alabama | January 11, 1861 |
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| Georgia | January 19, 1861 |
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| Louisiana | January 26, 1861 |
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| Texas | February 23, 1861 |
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| Abraham Lincoln sworn in as President of the United States |
March 4, 1861 |
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| Arizona territory | March 16, 1861 |
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| CSA Vice President Alexander H. Stephens, Cornerstone speech -- "...last, not least. The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution -- African slavery as it exists amongst us -- the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the 'rock upon which the old Union would split.' He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact." | March 21, 1861 |
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| Virginia | adopted April 17,1861 ratified by voters May 23, 1861 |
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| Arkansas | May 6, 1861 |
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| North Carolina | May 20, 1861 |
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| Tennessee | adopted May 6, 1861 ratified June 8, 1861 |
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| West Virginia declares for the Union | June 19, 1861 |
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| Missouri | October 31, 1861 |
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| "Convention of the People of Kentucky" | November 20, 1861 |
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I haven’t read all the posts yet, but there was a movement among blacks to leave too, and they did, and founded the African nation of Liberia.
I haven’t read all the posts yet, but there was a movement among blacks to leave too, and they did, and founded the African nation of Liberia.
I haven’t read all the posts yet, but there was a movement among blacks to leave too, and they did, and founded the African nation of Liberia.
“What is enough to make it fair?”
Nothing is. We’re to feel guilty (and atone forever) if we are:
a) born white (non-black, hispanic, etc.); or
b) Christian (Infidel); or
c) prosperous (non-welfare) albeit through ethical, hard
work and sacrifice; or
d) all the above.
I would be interested in the evidence you use to substantiate that claim.
Jefferson was clearly ambivalent about the morality of slavery but, as you said, he owned hundreds of them. What the heck - it was legal, right?! He was also undecided as to how to rid himself of them, but favored mandatory deportation.
Lincoln’s attitude was more clear - he didn’t own them, and favored the end of the practice. He was also unclear on what would become of the freed slaves and contemplated (among other things) voluntary repatriation to Africa.
bump
What if we had a “Liberia” in central America where ambitious Blacks from America had set up their own state, and had had generations to develop a community free of racial obstacles?
We would be sending them aid just like we do for Zimbabwe.
Interesting comment.
Rhodesia was the bread basket of Africa. Zimbabwe cannot feed their own people, from the same land.
I think it is Socialism and not race that makes the difference. Blacks tend to embrace Government and socialism as the answer to their problems. That is why they will never prosper.
“Most of the Lincoln worshippers simply ignore his views on race or excuse them so what’s new?”
Ironic, isn’t it, since BHO went through his “Lincolnesque” phase? Along with his JFK, FDR and Reagan phases - seems he doesn’t know WHO he wants to be when he grows up :-) Or maybe it’s just that he’s been living a totally fictitious life for so long.
“It is my impression that the military forces of the federal union seized him and turned him over to the government of Virginia to be tried and executed. Please tell me how I am mistaken in this.”
I wouldn’t say that you are mistaken. But your comment only tells half the story. President Buchanan sent a military force to capture Brown and he was tried and executed. But he was simultaneously hailed as a hero in much of the North. Buchanan was regarded as a friend in the South. Lincoln was regarded as sympathetic to Brown’s supporters.
One of the more curious facts associated with Brown’s raid involves the force sent after him. The contingent of US Marines sent to capture Brown was led by an Army colonel who happened to be in Washington city to settle the estate of his father in law. The father in law was George Washington Parke Custis, adopted son of George Washington, and the Army colonel was Robert E Lee.
This is old news. The Atlantic magazine had an article 15 years ago with these same quotes. Given the late 1800’s attitudes, it’s really not surprising.
” John Brown was cold-blooded for the Abolitionists, Bloody Bill Anderson was a killer for the Confederates.”
There is at least one significant difference between the two and that’s timing. Brown’s murderous career was before the war and had a role in igniting it. Anderson was a guerilla in the middle of the war.
Monrovia dates back to James Monroe’s administration long before Lincoln. And Freetown has British roots.
Lincoln was a gay racist war criminal with an crazy wife. And those were his good points...
Yea, that’s helpful.
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