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Waiting for the Rapture while America goes down the tubes! Vanity

Posted on 04/07/2009 4:47:57 PM PDT by cradle of freedom

Why is it that the forces of evil are well funded, well organized and determined to get what they want. While the believers in God are letting the enemies of God decide the future of our country?

It seems that too many people are living in the future, waiting for the Rapture. We have to look to the future but live in the present. I think too many Christians are too apathetic while the other side is energied.

Remember we have to hold down the fort until the calvary arrives. We can't just keep looking to the horizon while the fort is being surrounded and burned to the ground. What did Jesus say: "Occupy until I come." This doesn't mean living in the future. It means dealing with life as we find it day by day. It is fine to study the prophecies but we cannot use this as a form of escapism which I fear that many people do.

The churches have a great network for organization. What if someone printed up a Christian monthly newsletter to be distributed at Church? We cannot take for granted that people fully understand what is going on. I think human beings naturally are more interested in their immediate welfare rather than the big issues. They tend not to know what is going on until it is too late.

Have you ever heard of Tim Gill? He is a Colorado gay millionaire who has been single-mindedly defeating pro-family candidates in a number of states. Gill uses a very stealthy and deceptive method. He gives money to opponents of pro-family candidates. The voters are inundated with repeated mailings critical of the pro-family candidate. The mailings never mention anything about gay issues. Instead they just make general criticism of the pro-family candidate. Another thing that the voters do not know is that the opposition candidate has made an agreement with Gill to support gay causes in exchange for campaign money. How evil is that!

Meanwhile, many of the churches throughout our country fail to see how they can put their churches to work to counter this threat. Churches have natural social networks, a strong belief system and a method of collecting money for our causes. Instead it is the anti-God left that has all the organization and uses it to the ultimate degree. Wake up! What kind of country will our children inherit!


TOPICS: Religion; Society
KEYWORDS: bho44; christians; endtimes; gayagenda; prophecy; rapture
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1 posted on 04/07/2009 4:47:57 PM PDT by cradle of freedom
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To: cradle of freedom

Meanwhile, many of the churches throughout our country fail to see how they can put their churches to work to counter this threat.
*****
No they can’t...they’ve sold themselves for their tax exempt status....what is that when a woman sells herself for money in return for favors??? A Whore? Oh wait..its a whore that does good deeds...that makes it ok. Separation of Church and State??? What a joke. Deception, Deception, Deception!!! We have been warned!!


2 posted on 04/07/2009 4:55:03 PM PDT by briarbey b (There is nothing new under the sun.)
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To: cradle of freedom

ah come one.. most churches have important things to do, like buy a new chandelier and organ while asking for more money. /sarc


3 posted on 04/07/2009 4:56:10 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: cradle of freedom

“While the believers in God are letting the enemies of God decide the future of our country?”

You really think that God can’t handle this? That’s not showing very much faith in God! :)

These things play out on HIS time line, not ours.

“Don’t tell God how big your troubles are; tell your troubles how BIG your God is.”


4 posted on 04/07/2009 4:56:55 PM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin (Save The Earth. It's The Only Planet With Chocolate.)
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To: cradle of freedom

You are deluded, like most others. There is no god. Your prayers are nothing more than whining. This nation is being destroyed, because the majority want it so. And no amount of supplication to your plastic jesus will stop them.


5 posted on 04/07/2009 4:58:50 PM PDT by Old Sarge ("Remember, remember, the Fourth of November, the Socialist treason and plot...")
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To: cradle of freedom

I believe for this to happen, the church will need to go back to the example of Paul, and pastors will need to do other work for a living, while at the same time pastor a church. If the continued fall of the financial system deepens, this may come about. There will be many brothers and sisters in Christ who will need food, shelter, and encouragement, if the implosion some see coming, actually arrives. With Zero’s Civil Service plan of indoctrination along with prohibitions against sharing ones faith get implemented early enough, the church may have to go underground here right in the USA itself. See Canada for the beginning signs of persecution.


6 posted on 04/07/2009 5:07:01 PM PDT by TruthConquers (Delendae sunt publici scholae)
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To: Old Sarge

Your words are poison. And they make about as much sense as Poison.

7 posted on 04/07/2009 5:09:42 PM PDT by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: Old Sarge

“You are deluded, like most others. There is no god. “

You seem very sure of your position.

How do you know that to be true?


8 posted on 04/07/2009 5:10:30 PM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: cradle of freedom

Form of escapism, excellent way to put it.

My aunt and uncle are waiting on Jesus anyday now and when something bad happens, instead of fighting for what’s right, they say “All we do is wait until Jesus comes” and I think NO!

That’s what they did while they gassed Jews in Germany. That’s what they did while they burned Protestants in England. That’s what they did for 2000 years now!

I’ll be ready when Jesus comes, and in the mean time I’ll be ready to defend his flock. A shephard doesn’t just LEAD his flock, a shephard will FIGHT AGAINST THE WOLF TRYING TO GET TO HIS HERD!


9 posted on 04/07/2009 5:10:34 PM PDT by autumnraine (Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose- Kris Kristoferrson VIVA LA REVOLUTION!)
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To: cradle of freedom

The rapture is post- or mid-tribulation at best.

Lots of work yet left to do.


10 posted on 04/07/2009 5:10:53 PM PDT by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: Old Sarge

Amen, LOL!


11 posted on 04/07/2009 5:11:37 PM PDT by MyTwoCopperCoins (I don't have a license to kill; I have a learner's permit.)
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To: Old Sarge

You may be right this nation being destroyed, but it has nothing to do with God being unable to save.

God did not protect Israel and sent her into slavery for ignoring God’s laws. Americans have been mis-educated for so long, they no longer understand that nations can fall without a war. I do not believe God will save a nation that sacrifices its young on the altar to Molech.


12 posted on 04/07/2009 5:12:10 PM PDT by TruthConquers (Delendae sunt publici scholae)
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To: Old Sarge

Plastic Jesus?????

Come on Sarge, what’s your beef? Our Jesus is not plastic. He was a man, born of a woman, and we just happen to believe much, much more. But, plastic???

To believe as you do has a much worse end - think North Korea. All of the worst and largest horrors have been perpetrated by the Godless. I’m thinking of what happens right now in North Korea and what happened before courtesy of Stalin who murdered way more people than even were killed in the Holocaust.


13 posted on 04/07/2009 5:12:20 PM PDT by Paved Paradise
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To: Diana in Wisconsin
You really think that God can’t handle this? That’s not showing very much faith in God!

Maybe God wants to see how we handle this? If God just handled everything, the world would be much different. This is our proving ground.

14 posted on 04/07/2009 5:13:03 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

This comes down to a basic question of faith - how much are we supposed to do as opposed to what God does. The farmer plants seed in the ground, waters it and tends to his plants until it is harvest time. That is the farmers responsibility. He doesn’t just pray to God to bring him a bountiful miraculous harvest without doing any work. If God did everything for us then we would do nothing for ourselves and we would not grow. We are supposed to take care of those things that are our responsibility such as tending to our families, communities and government, and God takes care of those things that are beyond our powers.


15 posted on 04/07/2009 5:13:12 PM PDT by cradle of freedom (Long live the Republic !)
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To: TruthConquers

Nor will He continue to bless a people who turn their back on Israel. All of history is God’s. Its beginning and its end and all is ordained for His purposes.


16 posted on 04/07/2009 5:13:46 PM PDT by Paved Paradise
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To: Paved Paradise

Amen!!!


17 posted on 04/07/2009 5:14:44 PM PDT by TruthConquers (Delendae sunt publici scholae)
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To: cradle of freedom

Tim Gill is also the founder of QuarkXpress. That’s how he made his millions.


18 posted on 04/07/2009 5:15:50 PM PDT by GSWarrior (We have to act now before people begin to realize we don't.)
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To: PetroniusMaximus; Old Sarge

I don’t think there’s a god/ God either.

If there’s anything that can reverse my stance, it can’t be anything less than divine intervention. I just cannot bring myself to believe in a supernatural being, an evidence of whom, I’ve never experienced, ever.

And if you or anyone really believed there is a god or God, you wouldn’t be wasting time on your job or family; you’d be treading the planet, helping your god’s “children”, and teaching everyone about this god of yours. Because nothing can be more important, than knowing with certainty that your work is truly for your god. Anything less, is hypocrisy. IMHO.


19 posted on 04/07/2009 5:17:11 PM PDT by MyTwoCopperCoins (I don't have a license to kill; I have a learner's permit.)
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To: Old Sarge
There is no god.

Ooh boy, are you gonna have egg on your face at the end of days...

Too bad you feel that way. Then that means all those God-given rights of yours aren't really God-given at all... ergo, they can legitimately be taken away from you... And the DOI and Constitution mean nothing at all... That must suck.

20 posted on 04/07/2009 5:22:55 PM PDT by roamer_1 (It takes a (Kenyan) village to raise an idiot.)
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To: fishtank
Lots of work yet left to do.

Indeed. Next up, The War of Magog, which we're fixin' to see.

21 posted on 04/07/2009 5:25:37 PM PDT by roamer_1 (It takes a (Kenyan) village to raise an idiot.)
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To: MyTwoCopperCoins

“And if you or anyone really believed there is a god or God, you wouldn’t be wasting time on your job or family; you’d be treading the planet, helping your god’s “children”, and teaching everyone about this god of yours. Because nothing can be more important, than knowing with certainty that your work is truly for your god. Anything less, is hypocrisy. “

My pastor had a sermon on this and he agrees with you. My son’s private Chritian school had a spiritual emphasis week last week, and it was basically the same theme.

From my own personal experience, people are much more open to listening about God/Jesus if they know that you are a decent person. I try not to shove my faith in people’s faces, but I’m not shy about saying what I believe.


22 posted on 04/07/2009 5:26:25 PM PDT by luckystarmom
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To: cradle of freedom

There is no rapture.


23 posted on 04/07/2009 5:26:41 PM PDT by SeeRushToldU_So (Ahhh baseball is comming soon. Go Braves!)
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To: roamer_1
Ooh boy, are you gonna have egg on your face at the end of days.

What was that line about judging others? LOL!

Forced faith, is worth nothing.

Then that means all those God-given rights of yours aren't really God-given at all...

The principle of reciprocity gave those rights. Blood had to be shed for those rights. It certainly didn't fall from the sky, off the hands of an imaginary being.

24 posted on 04/07/2009 5:27:27 PM PDT by MyTwoCopperCoins (I don't have a license to kill; I have a learner's permit.)
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To: MyTwoCopperCoins
"If there’s anything that can reverse my stance, it can’t be anything less than divine intervention."
 
That is entirely possible. All you have to do is ask in sincerity. Something like, "God, show me if you are real and if Jesus is your Son. If you do I will serve you the rest of my life."
 
Many are not willing to do this.
 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 
"I just cannot bring myself to believe in a supernatural being, an evidence of whom, I’ve never experienced, ever."
 
Have you ever stopped to consider the amount of blind faith necessary to believe that the universe sprang from nothing - and for no reason?
 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 
"And if you or anyone really believed there is a god or God, you wouldn’t be wasting time on your job or family; you’d be treading the planet, helping your god’s “children”, and teaching everyone about this god of yours."
 
Correct to a point. God needs people in jobs and people taking care of children, etc. It is not up to us to decide what we will do for God, just to obey what He call on us to do.
 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 
"Because nothing can be more important, than knowing with certainty that your work is truly for your god. Anything less, is hypocrisy. IMHO."
 
I totally agree.

25 posted on 04/07/2009 5:29:29 PM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

AMEN sister!!


26 posted on 04/07/2009 5:33:09 PM PDT by mothball
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To: PetroniusMaximus
Many are not willing to do this.

Not me. Tried it again and again, over and over, far more than most people who claim to have deep faith, would have. Nothing happened. Would I be so forceful of my position, otherwise?

27 posted on 04/07/2009 5:33:47 PM PDT by MyTwoCopperCoins (I don't have a license to kill; I have a learner's permit.)
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To: fishtank

Thats the problem with the bulk of the modern American Christian church..They keep pushing an un-Biblical, easy-way-out doctrine (the rapture...”oh you dont have to worry, we’re all gonna be gone when the tribulation comes!!”)... thank all those Left-behind movies for that...LaHaye and his buddies made a good chunk of change from em.

Mar 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect’s sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

What is so hard for Christians to understand about these end times?!?! Jesus tells us clearly that we will have to be ready for the tribulation, and have our Spiritual armor on! God doesnt want a bunch of wimps who are looking to fly away!!!

If Pastors would simply get back to teaching the Bible rather than worrying about feel-good sermons, making fictional movies and preaching fictional doctrines, then the Christian population would have a lot more backbone and we’d start putting the secularists back in their place.


28 posted on 04/07/2009 5:40:17 PM PDT by HailReagan78
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To: MyTwoCopperCoins
What was that line about judging others? LOL!

It is certainly the most often used and misused "line" in the entire Book. It also teaches us, BTW, to warn our brothers of their shortcomings, lest their shortcomings be added onto us. If they fail to heed the warning, their shortcomings are their own.

And "having egg on one's face" can hardly be considered a "judgment" anyway.

The principle of reciprocity gave those rights. Blood had to be shed for those rights. It certainly didn't fall from the sky, off the hands of an imaginary being.

That isn't what our founding document declares. Nor does it ask the "principle of reciprocity" to bear witness to it's intentions. Having recognized that those rights are inherently bestowed in all mankind from on high in the DOI, the Constitution then goes on about limiting the amount of those rights being granted to the various governmental bodies.

Blood is not shed for those rights, not according to the documents we stand upon. They are ours as a birthright from God. Blood is shed to keep them.

29 posted on 04/07/2009 5:44:24 PM PDT by roamer_1 (It takes a (Kenyan) village to raise an idiot.)
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To: roamer_1
Poetic literature.

It is easier to make people value those rights more, if they can be convinced to believe that they have been bestowed by this anthropomorphized supernatural being that the majority had a virtual relationship with, in common, than by the principle of reciprocity which is really the root of it.

A rallying figure, albeit imaginary.

30 posted on 04/07/2009 5:53:03 PM PDT by MyTwoCopperCoins (I don't have a license to kill; I have a learner's permit.)
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To: Old Sarge

Wow Old Sarge, I was surprised to hear that from you!

Just ask Jesus into your heart and you’ll be amazed how much better you’ll feel.

Read the Bible and you can see how the one world order is being set up. It’s there. God’s time, not ours.


31 posted on 04/07/2009 5:58:30 PM PDT by sunny48
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To: Old Sarge

Wow Old Sarge, I was surprised to hear that from you!

Just ask Jesus into your heart and you’ll be amazed how much better you’ll feel.

Read the Bible and you can see how the one world order is being set up. It’s there. God’s time, not ours.


32 posted on 04/07/2009 5:58:34 PM PDT by sunny48
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To: MyTwoCopperCoins

You’ve got freepmail.


33 posted on 04/07/2009 6:02:32 PM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: PetroniusMaximus

Thanks, I’ve read it, and I truly appreciate the root of your intention.


34 posted on 04/07/2009 6:04:26 PM PDT by MyTwoCopperCoins (I don't have a license to kill; I have a learner's permit.)
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To: MyTwoCopperCoins
Poetic literature.

In that brief line, you discount the very foundations of America, and Western Civilization as well... A sad state of belief, to be sure. But it is yours, and you are free to have it... with your God-given freedoms, which men have died to preserve...

35 posted on 04/07/2009 6:14:33 PM PDT by roamer_1 (It takes a (Kenyan) village to raise an idiot.)
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To: mnehring

True. He did give us Free Will. But like any loving parent, he’ll step in at the last minute to save us from ourselves. :)


36 posted on 04/07/2009 6:15:09 PM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin (Save The Earth. It's The Only Planet With Chocolate.)
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To: roamer_1

No I didn’t.

The Founding Fathers were very clear about it, when they separated the Church(es) from the State.

Besides, I fear you are holding the works of men to the same estimation as that of your god (God).


37 posted on 04/07/2009 6:17:48 PM PDT by MyTwoCopperCoins (I don't have a license to kill; I have a learner's permit.)
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To: cradle of freedom

God didn’t invent ‘Government.’ Man did. No wonder it’s so screwed up!

God gave us some very specific instructions on how we are to lead our lives. We’ve ignored Him time and again in our personal and public lives.

I don’t think God will ultimately abandon us; he saved one special family from The Great Flood to weed out the trash and start us out anew. :)

Maybe 0bama is our flood? Of one thing I’m certain; there WILL be blood in the streets on ‘his watch.’

And I’m just speculating; I don’t pretend for one New York Minute that I know what God has in store for us...other than an awesome Afterlife whether ours comes in a natural-span human lifetime or suddenly due to the idiots in charge in Washington today.

Man, on the other hand, has been pretty predictable since Day One in the Garden.


38 posted on 04/07/2009 6:22:41 PM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin (Save The Earth. It's The Only Planet With Chocolate.)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

I think history shows He doesn’t. To Him, empires and nations rise and fall, this is only a blink in eternity. It is what His people choose that determines the course. It is our proving ground, not His.


39 posted on 04/07/2009 6:23:08 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: cradle of freedom; TaraP; Quix; Jo Nuvark

You asked — Why is it that the forces of evil are well funded, well organized and determined to get what they want. While the believers in God are letting the enemies of God decide the future of our country?

Ummm..., well, basically it’s because the “godless” are also in Republican Party. In fact, I was reading some comments here, and regarding the Republicans (and/or conservatives, if you will) that some of these people figure that they would win elections better if they jettisoned some of the “Christian baggage”...

Christians are not the majority of the country, the Republicans or the Democrats. It might be nice if they were, but they are not.

Thus, the answer to this problem is to “make more Christians” — and *not* organize better politically.

Besides, the *primary* goal of Christians is to spread the Gospel message — not organize politically. If one wants to do that (i.e., organize politically) as a secondary goal, that’s fine, as long as they don’t lose sight of the *primary goal* of spreading the Gospel message of salvation.

The Gospel message is not a political message. But, having more Christians will affect politics (so make more Christians...).

One particular example of how the “Christian message” might affect the “politics” of the conservatives, adversely, is that I would *never* (in a million years) vote for a “cult group member” for President. God would *never* have Christians voting to support a *cult group member* under any circumstances. And thus, I would never support the *cult member* — Romney.

BUT, there are “political operatives” who might see voting for Romney as a way to win an election and would castigate some Christians for going against the politics of “conservatism” (aside from the fact that some don’t think he’s conservative... LOL..) — by adhering to a Christian principle of not supporting or being in league with a “cult group member” who denies the Triune Godhead and that Jesus Christ was *always* (from eternity past) part of that same Triune Godhead (something denied by that cult group and thus being *totally against* Christianity).

Being a *serious* Christian may make some Christians vote against some members of their (”supposedly”) own party...

Is *this* (kind of action) the type of “political action” that you’re talking about? (i.e. voting against your own party people?), which causes some people in that same political party to figure it’s time to “dump Christianity” for the good of the Party??


40 posted on 04/07/2009 6:27:15 PM PDT by Star Traveler
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To: MyTwoCopperCoins
The Founding Fathers were very clear about it, when they separated the Church(es) from the State.

They did no such thing.

41 posted on 04/07/2009 6:31:49 PM PDT by roamer_1 (It takes a (Kenyan) village to raise an idiot.)
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To: cradle of freedom; TaraP; Quix; Jo Nuvark

You have as the “title” of your post...

“Waiting for the Rapture while America goes down the tubes!”

Ummm.., what makes you think that the primary objective of Christians is to “wait for the Rapture”... LOL...

As I read it, the primary *objective* of Christians is to spread the “Gospel message” to everyone. That’s something for every Christian and that is the *absolute and primary goal* of all Christians (per the Bible). That’s what I read, anyway...

The primary objective is not politics, it’s not waiting for the Rapture, it’s not organizing better politically, but rather organizing *better* ways to spread the Gospel Message.

Now, if you have some time to do some politics, in the meantime, after you do spread the Gospel Message, then that’s fine, too. There’s nothing wrong with that. But, please, don’t try to create confusion and say that Christians have as a primary cause and/or objective any kind of “politics”... they don’t (not according to the Bible, they don’t).


42 posted on 04/07/2009 6:35:07 PM PDT by Star Traveler
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To: roamer_1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson

And

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state_in_the_United_States


43 posted on 04/07/2009 6:56:08 PM PDT by MyTwoCopperCoins (I don't have a license to kill; I have a learner's permit.)
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To: cradle of freedom; Alamo-Girl; airborne; AngieGal; AnimalLover; annieokie; aragorn; auggy; ...

END TIMES DREAMS VISIONS PROPHECY PING LIST

A) LEVEL PING LIST PING

I have a lot of congruent sympathy for your perspective, goals etc.

I don’t feel a lot of . . . motivation to get behind some structured movement sort of thing. I think it is an exercise in futility wasted and the enemy benefits from the waste.

1. I do believe that FEEPERS taking docs from FR and giving them out to their social network is well worth doing.

2. I feel that PRAYER MORE THAN ANY OTHER THING . . . PARTICULARLY PRAYER AND FASTING WILL TURN OUT TO EQUAL . . . WHAT . . . an hour of prayer = 100 hours of community organizing? I don’t know but AT LEAST something like that, I’d bet.

3. The Bible is very clear that the globalist oligarchy WILL BE IN CHARGE for 3.5-7 years OVERTLY. We don’t have a measure of how long the birth pangs leading up to such horrors will last.

4. Certainly the globalist oligarchy has been busy for AT LEAST a hundred years as the ref’d quotes in my tag line attest. Certainly the oligarchy is not just going to wake up on a Monday morning and decide to take over the world by Wednesday.

5. They have had essentially ALL the political power of any consequence over the whole world for at least 100 years. They have had essentially MOST of the megabucks moneyed interests for at least 100 years . . . some say 400 years.

6. They WILL ADVANCE THEIR AGENDA TOWARD TRAITOROUS TYRANNICAL TREASONOUS GLOBAL SATANIC DICTATORSHIP APACE REGARDLESS of what Christians do or don’t do. That’s clearly a Biblical fact.

7. It is POSSIBLE that in some significant but relatively non-central areas . . . Christians COULD delay and moderate what would otherwise have been much worse.

8. It is likely, imho, that Christians WORKING TOGETHER IN UNITY OF CHRIST’S BLOOD AND SPIRIT

8.1 IN A GIVEN LOCALE—CITY, NEIGHBORHOOD, COUNTY COULD ESTABLISH A SAFE-HAVEN SPHERE PROTECTED SUPERNATURALLY BY ANGELIC ARMIES ETC. ETC. FOR HOWEVER LONG GOD SAW FIT TO ARRANGE THAT AND CERTAINLY DEPENDENT ON THE PRAYERS, UNITY, LOVE, ETC. DEMONSTRATED BY SAID CHRISTIANS IN SAID LOCALE. I suspect 24/7 prayer would be necessary in such a context.

9. The Church of Jesus Christ will likely have it’s finest hours ahead. But it will NOT be any semblance of THE CHURCH as it has typically been known in history and certainly in recent years. IT WILL INSTEAD BE THE CHURCH UNIVERSAL MADE UP OF EVERYONE WHO PUTS GOD FIRST AND FOREMOST; LOVES OTHERS AS SELF AND DOES UNTO OTHERS . . . WHO MAKE PRAYER AND FASTING A SIGNIFICANT PRIORITY AND WHO LOVE NOT THEIR OWN LIVES UNTO DEATH.

10. PETTY AND EVEN SOME NOT SO PETTY DENOMINATIONAL DISTINCTIVES WILL FALL BY THE WAYSIDE AS INCONSEQUENTIAL IN VIEW OF WHAT GOD IS DOING AT THE MOMENT IN A GIVEN LOCALE, GROUP ETC. Folks who still cling defiantly, stubbornly to the denominational distinctives may well be taken home early; sidelined to neutralize their danger to the group and/or end up wholesale in the enemy’s camp for their stubborn refusal to tune into WHAT GOD IS CLEARLY DOING in that situation at that time.

11. This will be true of RC’s, Baptists, Pentecostals, Methodists, Lutherans, . . . every kind of label you can think of. Man’s labels and Man’s structures will count for ZERO in the coming months . . . even less than ZERO. They will be seen FROM HEAVEN’S PERSPECTIVE typically as trashy charades; shells of sham and shame compared to THE CHURCH Christ died for and has been working to lead more and more purely these 2000 years.

12. The Church Christ died for and will increasingly overtly lead in accomplish great exploits for THE KINGDOM OF GOD in coming months WILL BE GATHERED BY HOLY SPIRIT FROM ALL FLAVORS AND TYPES OF GROUPS AND DENOMINATIONS. SAINTS THEREBY GATHERED WILL NOT CARE what the backgrounds of fellow saints are—only DO THEY LOVE GOD UNSURPASSINGLY, UNCOMPROMISINGLY; OTHERS AS SELF; DO UNTO OTHERS; WALK IN THE UNITY OF CHRIST’S BLOOD AND SPIRIT; WALK LED OF HOLY SPIRIT. All else will be chaff at best and dangerous poison and sabotaging deadliness at worst.


44 posted on 04/07/2009 7:40:58 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Star Traveler
You misunderstand me. I did not say that the primary objectives of Christians is to wait for the Rapture. All I am saying is that it some Christians seem to have this attitude and I think it is a form of escapism. Being well informed and responsible citizens is a religious responsibility. I don't think of that as being “politics” in terms of the grubby, what's in it for me kind of politics. I think of if terms of the politics of the Founding Fathers which was based on taking our citizenship seriously, not taking it for granted. I believe that many people have been very complacent for a long time and we need to get it through our heads that we need to be always watchful.
45 posted on 04/07/2009 7:47:37 PM PDT by cradle of freedom (Long live the Republic !)
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To: cradle of freedom

You said — You misunderstand me. I did not say that the primary objectives of Christians is to wait for the Rapture. All I am saying is that it some Christians seem to have this attitude and I think it is a form of escapism.

Ummm..., I don’t think I misunderstood you. I did “get” that you don’t consider the Doctrine of the Rapture to be worth considering... :-)

I’m saying that politics are not the primary concern or responsibility of Christians, and that the teaching of the Rapture has absolutely nothing to do with politics...

The answer (for politics, that is...) is you “grow the Christian numbers” — the politics will automatically take care of itself.

So, Christians don’t need to concentrate on “politics”, they need to concentrate on the Gospel message...


46 posted on 04/07/2009 7:53:57 PM PDT by Star Traveler
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To: Star Traveler

I am not saying that the Rapture is not important. What I am saying is that some people are neglecting their here and now responsibilities by not being more aware of what is going on in their country. The purpose of having a republic is to have participation by a well informed citizenry.

Here is an example—Obama is getting 80% approval ratings! Some of those people must be Christians. As a Massachusetts Catholic, I have been dismayed to see Catholics voting for pro-abortion candidates such as Kennedy and Kerry for many years. Something is getting lost in the translation. We are supposed to be a Christian nation yet we are voting more like a European socialist nation.

I like to know what is going on in the world and I have been that way since I was a teenager. But, just because I am that way and the people on freerepublic are that way, doesn’t mean that we are the majority. I believe that we are the minority. I think most people do not go out of their way to seek out information. They are not well informed and it doesn’t help that a liberal news source such as AP controls most of the news that people read in their local papers. Nor does it help that our schools and tv media are dominated by liberals. That is why I think that the churches should be doing something to inform Christians. I know that there are great Christian advocacy organizations but not every churgh goer belongs to any of these groups.


47 posted on 04/07/2009 8:13:15 PM PDT by cradle of freedom (Long live the Republic !)
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To: Star Traveler

I was hoping you’d find this.

I got sidetracked before I could ping you.
Give me a few minutes to review the thread.


48 posted on 04/07/2009 8:17:23 PM PDT by Jo Nuvark (Those who bless Israel will be blessed, those who curse Israel will be cursed. Gen 12:3)
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To: cradle of freedom

You said — I am not saying that the Rapture is not important.

The Doctrine of the Rapture has absolutely nothing to do with what’s going on in this country. That’s what I’m saying...

You’re bringing up a “straw-man issue” for the sake of bemoaning the sorry state of affairs, in terms of the “so-called” Christians and what they are doing. I was just posting on another thread about the declining state of Christianity in this country (a Newsweek magazine article). What I was basically saying there is that it’s the “dead wood” that is being cleared out of Christianity, and not really the true Christians, themselves falling away.

So, what you’re saying about the approval ratings — I’m saying merely represents “so-called” Christians (that “dead wood”) and not true ones...

The true numbers of Christians are really a lot smaller than what is indicated in popular polls, where some people think they are a “Christian” because they are born in America... LOL...


49 posted on 04/07/2009 8:33:22 PM PDT by Star Traveler
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To: MyTwoCopperCoins
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson

Ho-Hum...

This is such an easy toss... It is the work of Liberals, largely in the '60s and forward which have extended the "separation of Church and state" to the ground (ie all the way down to the individual).

Prior to that time, the so called "separation" was limited to the federal level (Congress shall make no law...). It was liberal federal judges acting by fiat, who removed the sovereign right of the states respectively wrt religious matters. It is not the gist of the founding fathers intentions, nor can you prove it to be so. The curtain of separation was meant to extend no further than the federal level.

Also, prior to that time, and reaching all the way into our very beginning, Blackstone's Law (influenced heavily by the Bible) and the Holy Bible itself were regularly used in law at all levels in our courts. No other holy book was given this regard.

Furthermore, prior to the 60's, with hardly an exception, all of the tested law was specifically regarding denominations with the odd Deist or Hebrew thrown in. IOW, prior to the '60s certainly prior to the 50's, States had full right to religious testing and law, School prayer, Sabbath laws and all, and the only tested law (AFAIR) was between Christian denominations, or at the least Jehovah-centric religions.

The only deference to religion other than Christianity ever given here historically was to our Hebrew brothers, and rightly so. Their God is our God. Their sense of law and order, their sense of ethic is extremely similar to ours, and therefore assimilation into our culture, while remaining separate, has never been an issue.

It is absolutely inarguable that we were born a Christian nation. Others were tolerated if they were peaceful and assimilated into our culture and obeyed our sense of ethics and laws, but to suggest that it was not Christian in every sense, and at every level is to be utterly blind.

The rights of states had to be knocked down in order to institute federally mandated socialism/multiculturalism. You are *for* that?

50 posted on 04/07/2009 8:48:05 PM PDT by roamer_1 (It takes a (Kenyan) village to raise an idiot.)
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