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1 posted on 06/10/2008 8:17:51 PM PDT by medatj
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To: medatj

Welcome to Free Republic!


2 posted on 06/10/2008 8:18:56 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: medatj
How do you fellow people look at the responsibility vs personal liberty?

That is an excellent question to ask. Western political philosophy has been examining answers to that question for centuries.
3 posted on 06/10/2008 8:24:15 PM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: medatj
I heard that in your civil law teacher, as other public servant, has the reponsibility to protect the public first.

Frankly, I have never heard that. Teachers are responsible for teaching kids to read, write, how to perform mathematical computations, as well as other subjects. Protecting the public is the duty of the police, armed forces, fire fighters, and other such individuals.
6 posted on 06/10/2008 8:30:20 PM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: medatj

See #7.


8 posted on 06/10/2008 8:32:30 PM PDT by AZLiberty (Wipe the national hard drive and reinstall the Constitution.)
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To: medatj

The issue should never have come up. Teaching is too important to trust any government with.


10 posted on 06/10/2008 8:39:02 PM PDT by Nateman (RINO leaders have less opposition thereby maximizing damage!)
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To: medatj

denverpost.com
http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_9352828

WINDSOR — The emergency plan called for the children from the Windmill Child Enrichment Center to march over to the nearby Bank of Choice before a tornado strikes.

On Thursday, there was no time.

Teachers at the center were just able to shoo the children into their own building as the tornado hit town.

When it was past, Cheryl Tori of Greeley pulled into town just in time to see a daisy chain of children marching into the bank as teachers did a head count. All were probably scared. Some were crying. None of the 167 kids was seriously hurt.

“That staff and that director all deserve a medal,” said Tori, 55, who was passing through on her way to Fort Collins. “They had them all inside, protected.”

[Story continues at above link]


12 posted on 06/10/2008 8:48:55 PM PDT by TomGuy
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To: medatj

I think one big difference is in the United States most schools perform regular emergency drills for such events as tornadoes, fires, hurricanes, earthquakes etc. Teachers and students practice these evacuations/relocations on a regular basis to know what to do in case of a disaster.

It sounds like in the earthquake in China, the teachers had no plan, no idea what to do. Each teacher had to make split second decisions on their own: one teacher ran away from his students, another teacher laid on top of his students and saved them from being crushed to death.

I think more children would have survived if the teachers had been trained on what to do in case of this kind of emergency.


13 posted on 06/10/2008 9:41:51 PM PDT by Tamar1973 (Catch the Korean Wave, one Bae Yong Joon film at a time!)
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To: medatj
Welcome to FR! This is a very interesting question that you have asked. I don't know what the law says about whether civil servants such as teachers are required to protect the public in this country. However, as we grow up here in the U.S., we are told stories of heroism of people who sacrificed themselves to protect others. We are encouraged to protect those who are weaker than ourselves, such as children, whether it is our job or not, whether we are being paid for it or not. We believe that protecting those who cannot protect themselves is simply the right thing to do.

In the case of teachers, they are being paid to teach their students, not to be policemen or some other person who is paid to protect them. But many teachers here have been heroes, protecting their students from various calamities. One example is Dr. Liviu Lebrescu, who taught at Virginia Tech University. When the massacre occurred at Virginia Tech, he blocked the doorway to his classroom with his own body so that the students could have time to escape out the windows. I'm sure he realized he would not live through it, but Dr. Lebrescu was a Holocaust survivor and had seen many things, and I'm sure he knew he could not live with himself if he did not do all he could to save the students. Here is an excellent article about him: We Remember: Biographies - Virginia Tech.

And what about our belief in personal liberty? We do believe in that strongly. But many of us who are on this forum believe that we only have freedom because many people before us were willing to give of themselves so that we would have it now. Look at policemen or firefighters or soldiers. Look at the risks they run. They could not possibly be paid enough to give their lives, and yet they do it every day, because that is what they have sworn to do, to protect others. Freedom is nothing without personal honor.

Perhaps others will disagree. But I believe we protect others because it is the right thing to do, not because we are being paid for it. I think that deep down, the Chinese people believe that too, which is why there is so much talk about the teacher who ran away. No, he was not being paid enough to sacrifice his life for his students. No one in the world has that much money, to pay him for that. But it sounds as though most of you believe he should have protected his students because it was the right thing to do, not because he was being paid for it.

20 posted on 06/10/2008 10:08:35 PM PDT by Hetty_Fauxvert (Sweet-talking Socialist Obama will trash the USA for the next 30 years. Vote McCain!)
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To: medatj
First I would like to assure you that the people of our country feel deeply for your countrymen.
My wife is a teacher and we have had this discussion several times. One of my heroes is a teacher who was in the school in Russia when the terrorists took several hundred kids hostage a few years ago. He was in his 70’s but as his students were denied water he fought so they could get to the drinking fountains. They beat him terribly. Later when the local law enforcement were trying to free the kids he helped many escape while placing himself in the line of fire. He was killed that day helping his students live.
He is one of my heroes. This story has nothing to do with politics or even local culture. This is about a person doing the right thing for children he was responsible for. He gave his life so his students could live.
29 posted on 06/10/2008 10:53:20 PM PDT by oldenuff2no
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To: medatj

NI HAO

Wo hun gao xin jian dao ni.

Welcome to FREEREPUBLIC.COM

Please ignore folks who have no courtesy or trust of anything Chinese. They have their reasons, right or wrong.

As our founding fathers asserted, the American Form of a Democratic REPUBLIC can only work

IF

the people are overwhelmingly Christian in their values. Otherwsie, there would not be enough police to keep everyone behaving rightly. And then who would police the police?

That is, IF the American citizens do not behave properly BECAUSE they know Almighty God is watching them and will reward or punish them accordingly, then the American form of government will just not work—there would be too much lawlessness, selfishness etc.

I believe that is true. And, I believe that is why American society is breaking down—because the globalist puppet masters have succeeded in trashing our Judeo-Christian value and causing our society to become more and more immoral.

50 years ago, things were different.

THEN, every individual had more of a sense of responsibility—

1. FIRST TO GOD
2. THEN TO WIFE AND CHILDREN and somewhat to extended family
3. THEN maybe to work or neighborhood, village.
4. THEN to country.

So, at that time, CIVIC RESPONSIBILITY was very much tied-in with, connected with our individual responsibility to our God, to Jesus. Citizens tried at least to LOOK LIKE they were responsible Godly citizens doing the right, honorable and responsible thing as Christians—to and for their families and also then, to the larger community.

And, that was a standard—did people behave in a Christian way as Christ Jesus would want them to as Christians. That was a standard that most everyone at least acted like they believed and held dear to their hearts and tried to act accordingly as honorable Christians.

FREEDOM was viewed as FREEDOM IN RESPONSIBILITY—not freedom to rebel or freedom to do an individual thing that would hurt family and community.

The story was told of 2 horses. One was wild and ran very freely. His brother horse was trained and the favorite horse of the rancher. The wild horse gloried in his utter freedom. Yet, when drought and severe winter came, the wild horse had little to eat. Freedom was not so much fun then.

The favorite horse of the farmer was free to roam, except when the farmer whistled. Then, the trained horse chose to go immediately to the farmer. They had a close bond. The horse loved to please the farmer. They were faithful to each other. The horse had a lot of freedom within limits. when the rancher needed him, the horse delighted to serve the rancher. And, the rancher delighted to take real good care of the horse with the best food and shelter and lots of grooming and affection.

We can say the rancher’s horse was free in obedience—a kind of paradox. The wild horse was freer in a sense—but without food—starving in a hard winter—that wasn’t very free.

50 years ago in the USA, individuals responsible first to God, then to their families and then to their work and communities counted their responsibilities very seriously. They felt free to express their opinions to a point. They did not feel free to destroy the community that gave them an opportunity to work and to fellowship with other responsible people.

Individuals then who worked for the government as ‘civil servants’ tended to see themselves more as there to serve the people, to help citizens—they called themselves public servants with some authenticity.

Now, the globalists infecting our educational systems for 50 years have destroyed the Judeo-Christian values of our universities and schools. They have succeeded in getting many people to think that THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG. IF IT FEELS GOOD, DO IT. DON’T THINK ABOUT CONSEQUENCES. Just be responsible to yourself for your own happiness.

Of course, that is destructive to society, to community. It is very selfish and even crazy. But many people believe that way now.

And, government attitudes have changed such that the Federal Government acts like god and treats citizens like slaves or objects to take as much money from as taxes as they can possibly get away with.

Many workers for government as well as for private employers feel that it is every individual for themselves. Each person should get all they can get and not think about consequences.

It is a little like the Chinese values where everyone hates the back door but is still first in line to use the back door.

Many U.S. citizens act irresponsibly as citizens seeking only their own selfish interest. Yet they are the first to curse other governmnet or private employees who do the same thing.

I think it is impossible to have a society of responsible individuals unless responsibility is part of one’s personal and group values.

Christians are first responsible to God who sees all and will eventually reward and punish accordingly. And, Christians believe in the universal law that all of us reap what we have sown—we harvest what we have planted—good if we planted good—bad if we planted bad.

But if man is nothing more than a rat, a pigeon, a radish or a rock—nothing more than chance plus time—then it does not matter whether I shoot you or feed you or give you flowers—nothing makes any difference.

IF, HOWEVER, I’m an individual loved of God and made in His image, then I’m responsible to return His love and to act as He would have me act. That is responsibility—to my God, to my family, to myself and to my community.

THEN, I can be free in God’s love to have His blessings.

If I am selfish and rebellious—I may think I’m freer to do whatever I please . . . and not realize very early that all my choices have consequences that I cannot escape. Sooner or later, I will have to pay the fiddler. Sooner or later, my behaviors will have consequences. And selfish behaviors tend to have very costly consequences.

REbellion pretends to be the maximum freedom choice. However, it’s consequences are so costly, it ends up with the most FREEDOM-RESTRICTING results of rebellious choices. Either hunger, illness or death or imprisonment tends to follow life choices of rebellion.

So, ultimately, I think personal responsibility and personal freedom have a lot of paradoxes associated with them. Careful balanced responsibility—especially first to God, family and community—results in maximum freedom.

Selfish, rebellious individualism eventually crashes and burns.

Chinese culture prizes POWER . . . even authoritarian, tyrannical power. Yet there is also the cultural awareness in the histories and fables of how the most powerful emporers could be the most corrupt and lose the mandate of Heaven.

There was also the value of benevolent authority. That is not greatly far from the Western notion of a leader serving under God’s authority in a Godly way—serving his citizens in a loving, caring, gentle and responsible way instead of selfishly as a tyrant.

Sooner or later, all individuals including top leaders will harvest what they have planted. Many do not think so. They think they have enough power or money to get away with whatever selfishness they desire.

However, life is not like that. Sooner or later they will harvest what they have sown.

There is an Almighty God in His Heaven and His Word is true. We all reap what we sow.

I hope this is understandable.

Thank you for your question.

Xie Xie

Yesu Ai4 Ni2

—Bo2 Xian2


31 posted on 06/10/2008 11:04:00 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: medatj
As an American, I may not be legally bound to assist during a disaster, but I am bound by honour.

The firefighters who entered the Twin Towers after the planes had struck on September 11, were not forced to enter.

They entered because it was their duty and hope to save as many as possible.

These heroic men were firefighters by choice, and died trying to help others.

Many Americans could not live with themselves if they ran away in a time of great need.


If a time of great need arises, it is my hope that I can live up to the example set by the heroes who have gone before me, regardless of the cost.
39 posted on 06/11/2008 11:38:04 PM PDT by Fichori (I'm always getting spam advertising drugs and replica watches; Who do they think I am, a gangster?)
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