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Better 30-30 gun for whitetails: Ruger Mini-30 or Auto Ordnance M1 carbine?
Vanity | 3-8-08 | Me

Posted on 03/08/2008 5:43:28 PM PST by Last Dakotan

These two are comparable in price and probably in performance. Looks like the M1 is about 1-1/2 lb. lighter. Suggestions?


TOPICS: Gardening
KEYWORDS: 3030; banglist; firearms; hunting
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1 posted on 03/08/2008 5:43:29 PM PST by Last Dakotan
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To: Last Dakotan

Look at the Winchester 94 or the Marlin

Can get plenty of good ones used-and they have put more deer on the table than just about any other gun


2 posted on 03/08/2008 5:48:17 PM PST by 5Madman2 (There is no such thing as an experienced suicide bomber)
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To: Last Dakotan

Neither one is a 30-30.


3 posted on 03/08/2008 5:50:33 PM PST by xone
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To: 5Madman2

I’ve got a model 94, but looking for a semi-auto.


4 posted on 03/08/2008 5:51:04 PM PST by Last Dakotan
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To: Last Dakotan

I have a 30 Cal M1 carbine. Isn’t a 30 30 a different round?

M1 is more of a closer area type gun, I’m sure it would have no trouble with a whitetail. But I wouldn’t want to try an elk or a po’d grizzly.

One big advantage is that sucker will shoot as fast as you can pull the trigger.


5 posted on 03/08/2008 5:51:59 PM PST by djf (She's filing her nails while they're draggin the lake....)
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To: xone
Neither one is a 30-30. I'm pretty sure the M1 is, but, yeah, the Mini-30's 7.62x39mm give performance very similar to the 30-30.
6 posted on 03/08/2008 5:53:18 PM PST by Last Dakotan
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To: Last Dakotan
Try a Marlin 336. My father used one for years for whitetails and the occasional elk. Rugged dependable and accurate
http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/Centerfire/336A.aspx
7 posted on 03/08/2008 6:01:17 PM PST by Polynikes (Hey. I got a question. How are you planning to get back down that hill?)
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To: Last Dakotan

M1 carbine is a .30 carbine.

30-30 is not actually, the same.

Here’s a pretty good reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rifle_cartridges


8 posted on 03/08/2008 6:03:17 PM PST by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: Last Dakotan

>> Neither one is a 30-30.

> I’m pretty sure the M1 is ...

Nope. The M1 Carbine fires a round called the .30 carbine.
It’s basically a pistol cartridge. Ballistics are below
.30-30 and way below 7.62x39. You may have trouble
finding .30C ammo other than FMJ. .30 carbine is iffy
for deer, although usually legal.

The M1 Rifle fires the .30-06, which is much more powerful
than any of the above.


9 posted on 03/08/2008 6:06:49 PM PST by Boundless (Legacy Media is hazardous to your mental health)
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To: Last Dakotan
The only one of these rifles that would be suitable for whitetails is the Ruger.

The 7.62 x 39 round is very similar in ballistic performance to the .30-30. The .30 Carbine round isn't even close.

I would recommend against even considering it for use on whitetails.

L

10 posted on 03/08/2008 6:13:19 PM PST by Lurker (Pimping my blog: http://lurkerslair-lurker.blogspot.com/)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network; Boundless; Lurker

I hadn’t realized the carbine used such a weak round. Thanks for the help.


11 posted on 03/08/2008 6:20:22 PM PST by Last Dakotan
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To: Last Dakotan
Be advised that the most commonly available 7.62 x 39 ammo is FMJ which is illegal for use on game animals in many states.

Soft point hunting ammo is made, but you need to be sure you purchase and use the correct cartridge lest you run afoul of the game laws in your state.

That being said one of those Ruger Mini-30's would be a real handy rifle for many purposes.

L

12 posted on 03/08/2008 6:23:19 PM PST by Lurker (Pimping my blog: http://lurkerslair-lurker.blogspot.com/)
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To: Last Dakotan

> I hadn’t realized the carbine used such a weak round.

I’ve owned a couple of them. Stovepipe jams were common.

And let me correct one of my remarks.
The .30-30 and the 7.62x39 are actually comparable
in ballistics. I imagine that suitable hunting
rounds are available in the 7.62, and SKS-based
semi-autos are relatively cheap.


13 posted on 03/08/2008 6:25:00 PM PST by Boundless (Legacy Media is hazardous to your mental health)
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To: Last Dakotan
To hunt deer a 308 is the minimum I would use. I usually use an old Springfield 30-06. Marlin 45-70 is good for elk if they are not too far away. M1 carbine can be used to punch holes in paper. M1 Garand is 30-06 and good firepower. Chesty puller liked them but preferred the Springfield for more accuracy. 30-30 would work up close but most people can't judge range too well so they would tend to shoot too low. FMJ surplus ammo is illegal on big game in a lot of states. What kind of bullet do you want?
14 posted on 03/08/2008 6:31:38 PM PST by mountainlyons (confused conservative)
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To: Polynikes
My father used one for years for whitetails and the occasional elk.

What about moose? My sister got bit by a moose, once ;o)

15 posted on 03/08/2008 6:37:00 PM PST by papertyger (changing words quickly metastasizes into changing facts -- Ann Coulter)
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To: Boundless

Buddy of mine has a Remington 6 cyl revolver that takes the 30 carbine rounds.

Don’t know if I’d want to be behind that sucker when it goes off! But I guess that would be better than being in front...

;-)


16 posted on 03/08/2008 6:41:35 PM PST by djf (She's filing her nails while they're draggin the lake....)
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To: mountainlyons

I keep a copy of the Federal Ammo catalog handy in the kitchen. They sell a 7.62x39mm Soviet soft point (and FMJ if you want them) round.


17 posted on 03/08/2008 6:47:12 PM PST by Last Dakotan
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To: Last Dakotan
Although not a 30-30, I've always been partial to the Remington Model 750. It comes in 30.06.
18 posted on 03/08/2008 6:53:04 PM PST by Richard Kimball (Sure, they'd love to kill me, as long as they can do it without admitting I exist)
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To: Lurker
The trouble with the Mini-30 is that it is notoriously lacking in accuracy, at least those made before 2000 when I bought mine. I have popped a couple of armadillos in the back yard, but I would not want to shoot at a deer at anything more than 35 or 40 yards, as it is not a very powerful round and needs accurate placement for a clean kill. There is nothing wrong with the 7.62x39 cartridge itself, it is just the macaroni barrel that Ruger uses on the Mini-30. I would really love to have a good quality short action bolt rifle chambered for it.

It is true that in firefights against human opposition the 7.62x39 has historically been effective in the AK-47, but a deer is not going to stay around after the first shot is fired.

19 posted on 03/08/2008 6:53:10 PM PST by 19th LA Inf
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To: Last Dakotan; djf

> ... the Mini-30’s 7.62x39mm ...

The Mini-14 is now available in 6.8mm SPC,
which is supposed to outperform the 7.62x39.

> Buddy of mine has a Remington 6 cyl revolver
> that takes the 30 carbine rounds.

Remington? Or Ruger?

> Don’t know if I’d want to be behind that
> sucker when it goes off!

Not because of the energy, as I understand it,
but because the powder in factory .30c loads
is slower-burning, since it expects to have at
least a 16in barrel. In a handgun, a lot of
it is still burning when the bullet has departed
the tube. It’s the classic “same round for
rifle and sidearm” conundrum.


20 posted on 03/08/2008 6:56:29 PM PST by Boundless (Legacy Media is hazardous to your mental health)
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To: Last Dakotan
The 30-30 has a rim on the case, if you want a semi-auto go for a 308. Have killed several deer with a 44 semi-auto ruger.
21 posted on 03/08/2008 6:59:07 PM PST by org.whodat (What's the difference between a Democrat and a republican????)
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To: Last Dakotan

I’m with Madman. Your 30-30 is a deer round, and for such is superior to both of the military rounds you’re interested in. If you’re interested in a good round for short to 150 yds. hunting and care about humanely taking your animal, save your money. If you want to command respect at an “intersection gone wild” then either of those other carbines you fancy would fit the bill. If you would use a .30 carbine on a game animal, you’re a scuzz.


22 posted on 03/08/2008 6:59:07 PM PST by VR-21
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To: Boundless
Just for the record:

The .30-06 is God's round.

23 posted on 03/08/2008 6:59:13 PM PST by Bosco (Remember how you felt on September 11?)
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To: Boundless

Could be a Ruger, been quite a few years since I saw it. He has a ton of guns, couple M1 carbines, a mini-14, HK308 and various handguns says he’ll sell me the whole mess for 5k and I’m sorely tempted...


24 posted on 03/08/2008 7:06:04 PM PST by djf (She's filing her nails while they're draggin the lake....)
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To: Bosco

> The .30-06 is God’s round.

I thought that was the .50 BMG

Legal for deer hunting,
and what with CWD,
you didn’t want enough
deer left to eat anyway :-)


25 posted on 03/08/2008 7:06:47 PM PST by Boundless (Legacy Media is hazardous to your mental health)
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To: Last Dakotan

DAMN!

If you want an answer KNOW the question!

Both of the rifles you mention are 30 CALIBER as is the 30-30 BUT they are all as different as day and night and neither is a 30-30!

Do some local research and try again.


26 posted on 03/08/2008 7:10:31 PM PST by Hazcat (We won an immigration BATTLE, the WAR is not over. Be ever vigilant.)
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To: Last Dakotan

A rifle that shoots pistol cartridges or a rifle that is famous for being inaccurate.

Can’t you find a nice Winchester lever action 30-30?


27 posted on 03/08/2008 7:15:55 PM PST by Shooter 2.5 (NRA - Vote against the dem party)
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To: Last Dakotan

I will ask a few questions if ya do not mind ......

What is the type of area ya hunt ? Open Plains, scrub in river bottoms, dense woods, short range , long range ?

Do ya plan on using the weapon for double duty for something other than Whitetail ? Mulies, Antelope ? Feral Hogs ?

Do you reload or prefer OTC ammo ?


28 posted on 03/08/2008 7:19:05 PM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.)
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To: papertyger
“What about moose? My sister got bit by a moose, once ;o)”

No moose but he rarely moosed.

29 posted on 03/08/2008 7:19:22 PM PST by Polynikes (Hey. I got a question. How are you planning to get back down that hill?)
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To: 19th LA Inf
"I would really love to have a good quality short action bolt rifle chambered for it."

Ask and you shall receive.

Ruger M77.

L

30 posted on 03/08/2008 7:20:23 PM PST by Lurker (Pimping my blog: http://lurkerslair-lurker.blogspot.com/)
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To: Shooter 2.5
A rifle that shoots pistol cartridges or a rifle that is famous for being inaccurate

Though I agree with the latter the former is incorrect. The 30 Carbine is not a pistol cartridge. It was designed and works well as a CARBINE round (typically 150 yards or less from a small rifle).

As much as I like the 30 carbine I would not use it for hunting deer. Get a .270 or 308 or 30-06 to hunt with.

If you want a tacticle rifle to hunt with then you can use the .308. I am not a fan of the 7.63x39 for hunting.

31 posted on 03/08/2008 7:25:32 PM PST by Hazcat (We won an immigration BATTLE, the WAR is not over. Be ever vigilant.)
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To: Hazcat

7.63x39 SHOULD be 7.62x39


32 posted on 03/08/2008 7:28:39 PM PST by Hazcat (We won an immigration BATTLE, the WAR is not over. Be ever vigilant.)
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To: Last Dakotan
Neither one is a 30-30. I'm pretty sure the M1 is, but, yeah, the Mini-30's 7.62x39mm give performance very similar to the 30-30.

To understand the difference between the ballistics of various rounds you should pick up a copy of a reloading manual such as the Speer Rifle and Pistol Reloading Manual.

A Cartridge consists of four components- the projectile (bullet), the brass case,primer and powder load.

There are approximately 20 +/- cartridges (case,primer,projectile,powder) that all use the .308 diameter projectile (bullet) ranging from the 30 M1 Carbine through the 30-30 Levergun cartridge up to the venerable 30-06 and the 300 Weatherby Magnum.

Because it is chambered in a gas operated autoloading rifle, the 30 M1 Carbine cartridge is limited to the use of two projectile weights-100 grains and 110 grains-and a choice of four "flavors" one of which is a semi-jacketed hollow point which MIGHT be an adequate deer round at close range.

Until Hornaday recently developed a soft pointed tip (the Leverolution round) ALL 30-30 ammunition was BLUNT point because of the danger the tube magazine arrangement of the classic levergun would detonate cartridges whose primer rested on the pointed tip of another projectile (bullet).

So even though the weight of a 30-30 projectile can go to 170 grains ballistically the range and power are limited to about 100 yards, maybe 200 yards in the hands of a skilled marksman. (of course, everyone believes they are skilled marksman enough to take long shots!!??)

Before you give up on your levergun examine the Hornaday Leverolution round and see if it does not meet your needs for extended range and power.

Best regards,

33 posted on 03/08/2008 7:29:13 PM PST by Copernicus (Mary Carpenter Speaks About Gun Control http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7CCB40F421ED4819)
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To: mountainlyons

On the off chance you or anybody you know should ever set out to try to hunt with a Garand rifle... there’s something you need to know. The 30-06 cartridge was made for the kinds of smokeless powders in use in 1905 or thereabouts while a 30-06 loaded with modern powder is going to be somewhere between a 308 (which has identical ballistics to the military 06 rounds with a much smaller case) and a 300 WM. That won’t hurt a modern bolt action rifle but Garand rifle won’t survive it.


34 posted on 03/08/2008 7:29:25 PM PST by jeddavis
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To: Hazcat

I think he was asking the other freepers who know about firearms for advice. That’s why he asked for suggestions.


35 posted on 03/08/2008 7:30:03 PM PST by Shooter 2.5 (NRA - Vote against the dem party)
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To: Last Dakotan

M1 carbine is NOT a .30-30. In fact the cartridge it uses is so low-powered that it is actually illegal for deer here in Michigan, and should be everywhere.

The accepted name for that round is .30 Carbine. It’s essentially a no more than modest .30 caliber pistol round. The little rifle was in fact intended as a combat sidearm for officers and non-front-line troops, in place of John Browning’s legendary .45 Auto pistol. More accurate at longer ranges than the .45 pistol can be shot accurately, but hasn’t the power of the .45 Auto at ANY range. Other than the historical value, the only use the little M1 Carbine has is killing tin cans, and maybe rabbits. It’s really not even good enough to use as a self-defense round.

The .30-30 or .30WCF is a legendary deer round, but it’s never chambered in any semi-autos, because it’s a rimmed round, and can’t be made to feed well. Most .30-30 rifles are lever actions, Winchesters, Savage 99s, and that ilk.

The 7.62x39 however is quite acceptable as a deer cartridge, BUT you must use the proper ammunition. The cheap full-jacket military surplus ammo is NOT suitable for deer hunting, and in many states is probably also illegal for that use.


36 posted on 03/08/2008 7:34:26 PM PST by Supercharged Merlin
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To: Polynikes

Amen to the Marlin 336. I have my Dad’s old .35 Remington 336, and if I ever have to go back to just one gun, that will be it. Cheap, rugged, accurate, easy to put a scope on, easy to field-strip for cleaning, you just can’t beat it. Best darned workingman’s deer gun ever made, bar none. Can’t beat the .35 Remington round, either. You can handload it for anything from rabbits to moose.


37 posted on 03/08/2008 7:34:26 PM PST by Supercharged Merlin
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To: Copernicus

The last time I was at a book liquidation store, they were selling “Cartridges of the World” for five dollars a copy. I bought every single copy they had. I took them to work and sold them to my fellow gun club members at cost.


38 posted on 03/08/2008 7:35:00 PM PST by Shooter 2.5 (NRA - Vote against the dem party)
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To: Hazcat

I use a old Mexican Mauser 95 with a custom receiver that was cut down and rebuilt just for the 7.62x39. I use it regularly on Javelina and Whitetails. As to the M1 Carbine....the .30 Carbine is nothing more than an offspring of the old vintage 1905 ,32 Winchester Self Loading cartridge. Poor Boy 32-20 per se....... The 7.62x39 in a proper launcher is one of the most accurate rounds in the world.


39 posted on 03/08/2008 7:35:49 PM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.)
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To: Bosco
The .30-06 is God's round.

Overstated, but only slightly.

Thutty-thuttys are fun, but get an '.06 and be ready for further and bigger critters.

40 posted on 03/08/2008 7:37:14 PM PST by BikerTrash
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To: Hazcat
Both of the rifles you mention are 30 CALIBER as is the 30-30 BUT they are all as different as day and night and neither is a 30-30!

For what it is worth the 30 M1 Carbine projectile(bullet) is .308 diameter and the 7.62x39 mm projectile (bullet)is .311 diameter.

A tremendous difference in chamber size and not interchangable.

Best regards,

41 posted on 03/08/2008 7:38:38 PM PST by Copernicus (Mary Carpenter Speaks About Gun Control http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7CCB40F421ED4819)
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To: 19th LA Inf
I agree. The 7.62x39 Russian is a decent cartridge, and roughly equivalent of the 30.30 caliber. Unfortunately the Mini-30 is an absolutely worthless firearm. I have an AK-47 that shoots tighter groups, and so does every SKS I've ever seen. Most everybody I know who owns a Mini-30 or Mini-14 keeps them in the closet to collect dust or uses them for door stops.

Whoever gave the go ahead to build the Mini-30 and the Mini-14 should be whipped and tried for theft. I will never buy or sell another Ruger.

42 posted on 03/08/2008 7:42:56 PM PST by Brucifer (G. W. Bush "The dog ate my copy of the Constitution.")
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To: Squantos
The 7.62x39 in a proper launcher is one of the most accurate rounds in the world.

You are right that the 7.62x39 is accurate out of the right gun BUT I am looking at the knowledge level of the OP. This is a guy (no offense intended) that wants a good 'all around' rifle. He will not be reloading and wants to be able to walk into Wally World and get good ammo.

I think the .308 would be better as a "tatcticle/hunting' gun for this type of shooter.

43 posted on 03/08/2008 7:43:22 PM PST by Hazcat (We won an immigration BATTLE, the WAR is not over. Be ever vigilant.)
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To: Last Dakotan
Mosin Nagant M44

Try one of these babies. Tough as nails, powerful, historically significant, and CHEAP.

(Plus, they have a permanently attached, swing-out bayonet)

;-)

44 posted on 03/08/2008 7:43:57 PM PST by SIDENET (Hubba Hubba...)
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To: Copernicus
For what it is worth the 30 M1 Carbine projectile(bullet) is .308 diameter and the 7.62x39 mm projectile (bullet)is .311 diameter. A tremendous difference in chamber size and not interchangable. Best regards,

Agreed BUT they ARE all considered 30 caliber.

Have a nice day

45 posted on 03/08/2008 7:45:47 PM PST by Hazcat (We won an immigration BATTLE, the WAR is not over. Be ever vigilant.)
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To: Squantos
Hey Squantos, glad yer here. Got an off topic question fer ya.

I got a buddy who's looking at getting a .340 Weatherby for big yardage shooting. I remember you sayin' once you had a .338 Lapua...how do you think these two compare?

Thanks in advance.

46 posted on 03/08/2008 7:45:52 PM PST by BikerTrash
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To: Shooter 2.5
The last time I was at a book liquidation store, they were selling “Cartridges of the World” for five dollars a copy. I bought every single copy they had. I took them to work and sold them to my fellow gun club members at cost.

At that price I certainly would have picked up a copy, but I like reloading manuals for the wealth of detail they provide.

For example, the exact same projectile-The Varminter .308 110 grain hollowpoint- out of a 30 M1 Carbine Cartridge has a muzzle velocity of 1981 feet per second. Out of a 30-30 Levergun it has a muzzle velocity of 2238 feet per second with a heavy powder load and 1925 feet per second with a light powder load.

Which one is legal for deer and at what range?

Best regards,

47 posted on 03/08/2008 7:47:55 PM PST by Copernicus (Mary Carpenter Speaks About Gun Control http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7CCB40F421ED4819)
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To: Hazcat
Agreed BUT they ARE all considered 30 caliber.

By whom?

Is a .357 30 Caliber? .375?

Best regards,

48 posted on 03/08/2008 7:54:24 PM PST by Copernicus (Mary Carpenter Speaks About Gun Control http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7CCB40F421ED4819)
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To: Hazcat

I asked some questions of the poster above and he answers that we’ll have a better way to help him choose.

All arguments thus far , price , semi auto, quality, cheap, durable, accurate, general hunting round etc seem to lead to a M1 Garand from CMP for this man.......dual purpose, 5 round enbloc’s available for hunting......I use one now and then .


49 posted on 03/08/2008 7:58:14 PM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.)
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To: BikerTrash

.340 weatherby is a awesome long range rifle. A buddy in Lindrith NM uses one on a regular basis for elk at extreme ranges as he says he hates to track or chase a wounded animal..........:o)

He uses a Apache style finger hole phenolic stock from McBros and it has a muzzle brake as well.

Great rifle . I watch him use that rig for everything from long range coyotes to Bull Elk and Mulies up there !

Good Choice. His is a weatherby by the way.

Stay safe !


50 posted on 03/08/2008 8:02:58 PM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.)
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