[DTogo]

TPIWWP!

[Lurker]

I don't know much about them, but I'm sure someone here does.

L

[Mr. Mojo]

Fulton Armory rebuild is a little much.

I've been hankerin' bigtime for a "Peerless" Fulton Armory M14 for quite some time now.

[hiredhand]

You're not talking about that .30 caliber pistol round are you?! If you're going to buy a short .30 cal, by DSA's SA-58 carbine. It shoots a "real" .30 caliber round....7.62x51 (.a.k.a. 7.62 NATO, or .308 Winchester).

http://www.dsarms.com.

[Darksheare]

Gun talk and questions thread.
Grab the crew, Auto-ordnance M-1 is the subject of discussion.

[yarddog]

I can't answer your question but I have had some experience with Auto Ordinance pistols.

The first one was a .45 auto. It jammed regularly. I discovered the extractor had no tension at all. Instead of sending it back, I happened to have a GI spare and installed it which cured the problem.

I next had a 10mm. It actually shot better than either of the Colt Delta Elites I had. When cleaning the barrel, I noticed a slight defect (it looked like a slight crater, maybe 2mm across inside one groove). I suspect it was a cast barrel and there had been a slight bubble in the steel.

I wrote Auto Ordinance and they shipped me a new barrel and requested I return the old one.

As luck would have it, the new one was not as accurate. I phoned the plant and talked to a supervisor who clearly knew what he was doing. He told me to just keep the original barrel which I did.

I guess their quality control could have been better but they were good to deal with.

[cowboyway]

Has anyone shot the Auto-ordinance M1 carbine?

No, but I bought a Springfield Armory M1A National Match a couple of years ago and its sweet. Worth every penny.

[SWAMPSNIPER]

I shot a possum raiding my trash cans 9 times with a .30 carbine, had to come in the house and grab the old 10/22 to finish the poor little critter off.
The M1 carbine is a cool little rifle, but the cartridge is a joke. It is likely just hot enough to make a big man mad enough to kick your butt.

[Criminal Number 18F]

Sheesh. Typical FR gun thread. Somebody asks a question about a specific weapon, and a hundred guys lambaste him for it, each one offering his own personal shooter as the answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything (probably most of the time, a shooter he hasn't even shot, and certainly just about all the time, a shooter he hasn't shot people with).

There are a number of reasons for wanting to own an M1 Carbine. Target shooting at 500 yards, hunting bears, and serious social work don't qualify. But it is an interesting little gadget with a lot of history in it. It's a great plinking gun, and a good step up from a .22 for a kid interested in military weapons. I have owned several M1 and one paratrooper M1A1, and am old enough to have had military training on the M1 and M2 (it was obsolete but still used by some foreign countries... indeed it may still be, I used to run into them in South America and the Caribbean but haven't been back to that area since 9/11 for obvious reasons).

It was never supposed to be a battle rifle. The USA in 1941 had three good ones, which is two more than most nations in the war had, and three more than Russia did. (The 1903, M1 Garand, and M1941 Johnson). It was meant as a last-ditch defensive longarm for men who served crew-served weapons (artillerymen, machine gunners), or soldiers whose primary duty was serving a crew wasn't fighting -- commanders, or radio operators, or truck drivers, that kind of thing. The average FR gun nut carries his gun from his pickup to the range bench (or from the gun safe to the couch). The average soldier carries his weapon every-damn-where. The five- or six-pound difference between the weight of a loaded carbine and one of those rifles is huge to someone who actually carries the weapon.

Is it less effective than newer weapons that replaced it? Well, duh. But it still has a lot of history behind it and I still know American vets who carried it and swear by it.

As far as reliability goes, any clean carbine made of original parts should function flawlessly. A new-manufacture weapon that's CNC machined (like Kahr's) may benefit from a search for burrs and stress risers. Beware of surplus parts of unknown provenance -- the Chinese Communists captured thousands of carbines and facilities for making them, and if their parts it's just blind luck, and they're not marked: "Crummy Part Made By Chinese SLave Labour" or anything.

There were several civil makers of M1 carbines between the war and today, including Johnson Automatics (who necked the cartridge down to 5.7mm!), Plainfield, Universal and probably some others. Most of them were made of GI parts or from GI tooling EXCEPT the Universal. Despite the name, the parts don't universally interchange. I believe from the way that Kahr does things, that they are not using anybody's old tooling, but you would be well advised to check. If they have the Universal tooling, suck it up and buy an original carbine instead.

I recently looked at some Kahr Thompsons and was impressed. (I'm kind of a Thompson fan; talk about fun to shoot, and yeah, they still taught that in weapons school in the eighties, too). The QC on the old Numrich ones was, in a word, awful; the Kahr ones were better made and better finished. If the carbine is made like that you can be proud of it.

Surplus carbines used to be dirt cheap, but as the demand continues to grow thanks to collectors, reenactors, and regular gun culture types, the prices keep going up with no let-up. Be advised that a decent wartime carbine will likely appreciate, whereas the Kahr is going to depreciate some -- that's just the way it is. Imagine how the guy who's been holding onto a Universal since 1966 feels (his hasn't appreciated either).

Dumb trade department: over twenty years ago the only legal semi-auto AKs in the country were one batch from Steyr (that were actually made in Egypt). It was a typical, crude, Russian AK (made on Russian tooling, but with some parts even cruder -- imagine Russian supervision, Arab workforce - yikes). They sold for $2500, an unbelievable sum circa 1980, but the batch had sold out. My buddy had one and coveted my airborne carbine, so I swopped my M1A1 for the Maadi/Steyr even-up. Wanna guess what has happened to the value of the two guns since? Anybody want to trade an M1A1 for an Egyptian AK? : : : (sound of crickets) : : :

In 2002 and 2003 I saw more Egyptian AKs than I could shake a stick at, and you know what? They had a reputation as junk with the Afghans as well. If the Afghan Army guys saw the Arabic writing "Misr" on the receiver, which is Arabic for Egypt (the letters used for writing Dari and Pushtu are almost the same as Arabic letters), they would throw that gun in the scrap pile without bothering to function check it.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

[I got the rope]

Just spoke to one of my friends who just bought one. He's put 50 rounds through it...no problems.

[Perdogg]

I am assuming it's street legal, right?

[95ssimpala]

Thanks for all of the replies! It is a little late and I’m going to try and answer some of the questions and comments real quick.
1. The metal hand guard is ugly and I would probably replace it with a proper wood one. Wood=good most of the time
2. Yes, proper rifle thirties are much more potent and effective ballisticly than the .30 carbine. I want one because they are neat, fun and handy plinkers. They’re damn fun to shoot too!
3. I have no personal experience with AO, but I have read a few stories like Darksheare’s and I am a little wary.
4. $600 is a little high and I could buy a GI one for that, but I want a shooter and preferably one that isn’t to beat up. They are going for about $500 at a shop not far from me and a used one would be even less.
5. I will probably buy a GI one, but I’m just exploring all of my options. What I really want is an M1A1, but I don’t have $2G+!

[Joe 6-pack]

Here's my Auto-Ordnance Carbine with a little of my own custom work....

Although it's supposed to be built to GI specs, I've read that people who've bought some aftermarket M1A1 (paratrooper) folding stocks required quite a bit of extensive fitting. I've got magazines from several sources and they've all worked just fine. I keep it (and all my weapons) meticulously clean and have never had a misfire, stove-pipe, jam, fail to cycle, fail to feed, etc. You do have to rack it pretty hard to chamber the first round completely (due to the strength of the manufacturer's magazine spring that maintains a LOT of upward pressure), but the charging handle is also it's own "forward assist."

It's not a tack-driver but off a rest, I've got 4-5" groups at 100 yards with factory peep sites; I'd guess that could be shrunk an inch + with decent optics. I would recommend it, and love mine, but if you're going to grab one up, get as much ammo as you can...it's getting harder and harder to find.

[Mat_Helm]

Post #52 is your best reply, but specifically the Auto Ordinance is not that great a purchase. It has a cast Chinese receiver and some GI parts and some new parts. For the prices that I have seen near $700 it is not worth the money. For that price you can find a used GI issue rifle if you look long and hard enough. Obtain a CMP M1 Garand if you can or a CMP M1 .30 carbine if they offer them again.

I had an acquaintance that had a licensed and fully auto M2 version of the M1 carbine that was fun to shot. If you buy an M1 carbine avoid the larger capacity magazines as they tend to jam a lot, and the 15 or 20 round magazines are best.

The .30 carbine is a great round for close in combat with the ability to carry lots of light ammunition and ballistics similar to a .357 mag and better, but will not go through 8 walls of your house and into the neighbors kitchen. It was designed to be used in place of the 1911 .45 handgun by officers, tankers, engineers, etc... and was never meant to be used as a front line battle rifle except for Army paratroopers and some USMC units in jungle fighting. Many USMC carried the rifle in Korea. The little 110 grain bullet is heavy enough and will take down anyone with a few well placed shots. It is a handy self defense gun , accurate, extremely reliable, fun to shoot and easy to obtain ammo anywhere at reasonable cost and easy to reload being a straight wall case.