Posted on 02/21/2005 5:36:02 PM PST by TMSuchman
I am thinking about getting my FFL. to start a small dealerdhip from home. Nothing exotic, just maybe some firearms from the civilian markmanship program. [ie .22's, .30 cal, maybe .223's or so] Since I get so many responses from the Freepers, I thought I would ask.
So, what does everybody think?
Forget it, my father had one for years, it's not worth the hassle.
IMHO-YMMV
The "kitchen table" dealers were done away with during the Clintion administration. With all the paperwork and hassle involved, I would recommend against it.
He still has most of his guns but fixes antique clocks instead.
How exactly were you going to be a dealer in CMP rifles?
First, when a non-licensee buys a firearm from CMP it transfers directly to them, no FFL holder needed.
Second, you REALLY should spend some time reading ATF's web site about getting an FFL.
Third, most kitchen-table FFLs were put out of business in the Clinton years. The new "kitchen table" trend is to set up internet only sales and act as a dealer for internet purchases transferring in to your area. This is one of the few types of FFL businesses that can be run without a brick-and-mortar address.
Lastly, running a sole proprietor gun business isn't exactly brain surgery. As long as you keep your nose clean and paperwork straight it's a good way to supplement your income and support your hobby.
You'll need an area like a garage or other structure dedicated to your FFL business. It will need to be secured against all other access and alarmed. You'll need decent safes, like ones made by Liberty, to secure your inventory. Local zoning must allow you to do this and you'll need to prove it to ATF at your initial compliance inspection. You'll probably need a phone dedicated to this business and you'll be required to post hours and a business name. If you're going to do the internet transfer thing you'll need to get hooked up with Davidson's and places like GunBroken and GunsAmerica after you get your FFL. You'll need to actually be available too. I've called several FFLs in my area to do transfers and I get attitude so they get no business. I don't mind paying $20 - $40 per transfer to someone that's polite, professional and available.
I'm going to start a firearm manufacturing business once I'm back from Iraq. I've spent a lot of time researching this. It's not hard to find out the details. I think it's actually easier to do the NFA* thing because of availability of books like "The Machinegun Dealers Bible" from the Small Arms Review web site.
BTW, if you start a business you should expect to earn some money. Nobody expects to pay any money for firearms. You need to find the balance in that. Shooters are by far the biggest cheapskates on the planet. I think it has to do with grand desires and small means. I can't tell you how many times I've seen guys with a brand new Glock, HK or other Teutonic Tupperware and put the cheapest steel cased ammo through it and then complain that "it don't shoot good". I've even seen that with someone who bought a transferrable MP5. This, at the time, was a $9500 machinegun and the guy that bought it put Wolf ammo through it. If you can afford a decent pea shooter you can afford to feed it decent ammo. It's like buying a $100,000 car and putting Wal-Mart tires on it.
I'm not saying you should scalp customers. I'm saying that making $5 on a transfer or $20 a gun on your stock is no way to actually make money and stay in business. And yes, you need to show something resembling an attempt at successs in order to keep your FFL. If it looks to ATF like you're just collecting and beefing up your own stash of pea shooters they'll screw with you.
If you decide to go through with it then good luck to you and be smart about it.
* National Firearms Act of 1934. It regulates machineguns, destructive devices, short barreled shotguns, short barreled rifles and oddities called 'AOW's.
Are you sure that's what they were shut down for?
I know some pretty low volume dealers that have no trouble.
I'm not trying to debate how arbitrary and capricious ATF can be. I'm suggesting that low volume might be the publicly given reason and that the real problem ATF had with them was something more serious.
L
I held an FFL from 1983 until I got sick of it in 2002. It isn't worth it.
Typically all of the "kitchen table" dealers I have talked to (about 20) have been in business for several years and only three have had "visits" from the ATF and those were only "courtesy" calls, not "jack-booted" storm troopers.
Storage requirements are not as stringent as some here would have you believe either. Since most "kitchen table" dealers don't carry a large inventory a large safe is not required. I have a safe for my personal collection, but will get another one for my business when the time comes. The ATF and several of the dealers I talked to told me that the ATF has NO guidelines on secure storage other than it has to be out of plain sight and only accessible to the proprietor. You could conceivably get by with a securely locked footlocker.
Zoning issues are the biggest obstacle that most potential dealers face, and this is primarily a function of your locality, not the ATF. When you submit your application for an FFL, you must also submit a copy to the Chief Law Enforcement Officer in your locality. This could be either the Police Chief, Sherrif, or a Magistrate. Most areas with just a Sherrif or Magistrate are easier to deal with because those areas are typically rural. In my area we have a Sherrif and a Police Chief and our Sherrif is more gun-friendly than the Police Chief so I will submit my app to his office.
The other things you have to survive are a background check and the licensing fee ($200 first year and $100 every year after that). You will also need to get a tax number in order to collect sales tax.
Don't let people here scare you. It is quite possible to hold an FFL for a long time without any interference from the ATF. Just follow the law, and maintain immaculate records. Only doing business with people you know, or who are referred to you by people you know will cut down on any potential headaches.
Thank you all for your input. It has given me a great deal to think about. I will be mulling all of this around & will post what I will be doing in the future.
Respectfully
tmsuchman
We had one many years ago and let it go because too many in home dealers were getting hassled by the ATF. They actually knocked on the doors of people that held FFL's in the middle of the night to do inspections! We didn't want to put up with that kind of B.S.
A friend of ours called us one morning very upset and said the ATF arrived at his door at 1:30 AM and insisted they check all of his guns and paperwork right then. This was in St. Louis and was totally uncalled for.
Or licenses to perform them...
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