What is "Gun Registration"?

My fertile mind | today | Fightin Kentuckian

[fightin kentuckian]

There is confusion about what constitutes “gun registration” I hope to clear up that confusion.

A lot of people wrongfully believe that when you go to a gun store to purchase a firearm and you fill out the ATF Form 4473 for the background check, that this constitutes a “gun registration”. This is not a gun registration, this is a background check to verify that you are legally allowed to possess a firearm. Let me explain.

On the first page of the 4473 under Section A, you write your personal information and answer questions such as, have you ever been convicted of a felony, and then your signature goes at the top of page two. The vendor takes your photo ID and fills out Section B. It’s here that they note the make and serial number of the firearm and then then they call it into the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). After about 20 minutes the check is complete and you’re allowed to purchase the firearm.

I know what you’re thinking, they have all of my personal info, a copy of my ID, and the make and serial number of the gun, now explain how this isn’t a registration. There are several very important aspects about how the AFT 4473 is handled that separate this from a registration. First and foremost the ATF 4473 is completely private. It’s treated the same as a tax return and cannot be shared with anyone not even a federal agency or state government. No one other than the NCIS is allowed to know that you attempted to purchase a firearm. If anyone releases a 4473 to the public, they go to jail. Second, you are not bound to the firearm listed on the 4473. In other words the government cannot come to your door in 10 years and demand that you produce the firearm listed on the 4473. That is illegal and that is at the heart of gun registration. Once you own that firearm, it’s your personal property and like all personal property you can do whatever you want with it. You can gift it to a relative or friend, or trade it, or sell it privately without the permission of the government.

Now let’s talk about gun registration. Gun registration is a government’s way of controlling firearms. That firearm is registered to you and your address; you’re not allowed to give it to a relative or friend or sell it unless the government gives you permission. And when you die the government takes ownership of your registered firearms. Also, let’s say that a state government, Virginia for example, has a firearm registry in place and passes a law banning certain firearms or firearms all together. The state, simply refers to its registry and shows up at your front door for a quick and orderly gun confiscation. However, if that firearm isn’t in your house then you’re going to jail. Firearms registries do not keep people safe they do just the opposite and destroy our civil liberties. Historically firearms registries do in fact lead to firearm confiscation.

Currently, California, Connecticut, DC, Hawaii, Maryland, New Jersey and New York require registration of some or all firearms. And other states like Illinois require a permit in order to purchase a firearm.

In Dec 2012 the Journal News in upstate New York published the names and addresses of all gun permit holders in the Westchester and Rockland county areas of New York and had a map showing their locations. How would you like for thieves or Gov. bureaucrats (same thing) to know exactly what you have in your house? You wouldn’t!

On the flip side of the coin, if you live in Arizona, Alaska, Wyoming, Vermont, Kansas, Kentucky, Mississippi, Utah or South Carolina congratulations you live in a state that has the least restrictive gun laws.

For the record, I don’t agree with the current way of purchasing a firearm using the 4473 and the NCIS but it’s the law and I’ll go with it for now however I do not and will not support “red flag” laws or any kind of state registration or confiscation. That is illegal and unconstitutional and is a defacto repeal of our 2nd Amendment rights and must be resisted by all citizens.

[SERE_DOC]

Just for the record:

title 26 USC 5845 firearm (a) Firearm The term “firearm” means
(1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
(2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
(3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;
(4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;
(5) any other weapon, as defined in subsection (e);
(6) a machinegun;
(7) any silencer (as defined in section 921 of title 18, United States Code); and
(8) a destructive device. The term “firearm” shall not include an antique firearm or any device (other than a machinegun or destructive device) which, although designed as a weapon, the Secretary finds by reason of the
date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector’s item and is not likely to be used as a weapon.

~

(e) Any other weapon The term “any other weapon” means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.

[fightin kentuckian]

“In other words the government cannot come to your door in 10 years and demand that you produce the firearm listed on the 4473.
At least, not yet. Let’s see what happens in VA. “

I agree. I think VA is emboldened to break a lot federal laws and trash the constitution. Let’s see what happens.

[Svartalfiar]

If that was the case, my CCW should allow me to skip the form. As was stated, the form precedes NICS. They want your name tied to that ser number.

The form in not the background check, the form is the record that the store sold that particular firearm to you. Your name will be tied to whichever SN you ultimately purchase. And, as someone else mentioned, the only info on firearm sent with the NICS check is type. In TX, I don't have to wait get the check if I have my CHL, I just pay and go. As long as a state's requirements for the chl meet or exceed the nics requirements, then you're exempt from that part of Brady. Unless your state also requires other background check for firearms. But on a federal level, I think half the states pass.

[Svartalfiar]

ATF states that 4473 are kept NLT 20 yrs and when the business terminates it license or closes it doors, the bound book of firearm transfers goes to the ATF.

The government eventually has a record of all transfers by FFL licensees.

I'm pretty sure that at the 20-year mark, the FFL can destroy the 4473s. They only send their book in if they close shop or otherwise lose their FFL license before that time.

For practicality, I dunno how many shops actually go through and pull out all the 20+ records, but they are able to.

[Svartalfiar]

ATF states that 4473 are kept NLT 20 yrs and when the business terminates it license or closes it doors, the bound book of firearm transfers goes to the ATF.

The government eventually has a record of all transfers by FFL licensees.

I'm pretty sure that at the 20-year mark, the FFL can destroy the 4473s. They only send their book in if they close shop or otherwise lose their FFL license before that time.

For practicality, I dunno how many shops actually go through and pull out all the 20+ records, but they are able to.

[heavy metal]

gun registration is the hit list for gun confiscation...

[MileHi]

The form in not the background check, the form is the record that the store sold that particular firearm to you. Your name will be tied to whichever SN you ultimately purchase.

I get that, and I don't like it.

[Manly Warrior]

Correct, NLT 20 years is what the AFT policy states. Most shop owners use accordion folders and can find any 4473 in a moments notice when asked by ATF. Sometimes Agents will ask about a specific transfer and expect the owner to provide them both 4473 and bound book entry w/o delay.

[Svartalfiar]

Correct, NLT 20 years is what the AFT policy states. Most shop owners use accordion folders and can find any 4473 in a moments notice when asked by ATF.

Yes. Your comment just made it sound like FFLs send 20-year-old records to the ATF, so I just wanted to clarify they are allowed to be destroyed at that point.