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Greenfield: De-Islamization is the Only Way to Fight ISIS
Sultan Knish blog ^ | Friday, May 22, 2015 | Daniel Greenfield

Posted on 05/22/2015 2:54:33 PM PDT by Louis Foxwell

Friday, May 22, 2015

De-Islamization is the Only Way to Fight ISIS

Posted by Daniel Greenfield @ the Sultan Knish blog

Obama can’t defeat ISIS with soft power, though ISIS could beat him with soft power assuming its Caliph ever decided to agree to sit down at a table with John Kerry without beheading him. Iran has picked up billions in sanctions relief and the right to take over Yemen and raid ships in international waters in the Persian Gulf just for agreeing to listen to Kerry talk for an hour.

And that might be a fair exchange.

As bad as having your capital or ship seized by Iran is, listening to John Kerry talk is even worse.

If ISIS were to agree to a deal, it could pick up Baghdad and Damascus just in exchange for showing up. All it would have to do is find a Jihadi who hasn’t chopped off any heads on camera to present as a moderate. The administration and its media operatives would accuse anyone who disagreed of aiding the ISIS hardliners at the expense of the ISIS moderates who also represent the hardliners.

If Obama did that, he would at least lose in a way that he understands; instead of in a way he doesn’t.

So far ISIS has preferred the classical approach of killing everything in its path. The approach, deemed insufficiently nuanced by masters of subtlety like Obama and Kerry, has worked surprisingly well. Their response, which is big on the Bush arsenal of drone strikes, Special Forces raids and selective air strikes, hasn’t. But Bush was fighting terrorist groups, not unrecognized states capable of taking on armies.

It’s hard to destroy something if you don’t know what it is. And it’s hard to know what a thing is if you won’t even call it by its name or name its ideology.

The left loves root causes, but the root cause of ISIS isn’t poverty, unemployment or a lack of democracy.

It’s Islam.

The Islamic State isn’t unnatural. Its strength comes from being an organic part of the region, the religion and its culture. Its Arab enemies have performed so poorly fighting it because their institutions, their governments and their armies are unstable imitations of Western entities.

The United States can’t make the Iraqi army work because Iraq isn’t America. The assumptions about meritocracy, loyalty to comrades and initiative that make our military work are foreign in Iraq and Afghanistan where the fundamental unit is not the nation, but the tribe, clan and group.

Iraq and Syria aren’t countries; they’re collections of quarreling tribes that were forced into an arrangement that included the forms of Western government without any of the substance. When the Europeans left, kingdoms quickly became military juntas. Now the juntas are fighting for survival against Islamic insurgencies that are striving to return the region to what it was in the days of Mohammed.

ISIS is the ultimate decolonization effort. It’s what the left claims that it wants. But real decolonization means stripping away everything the Europeans brought, including constitutions, labor unions and elections. The cities that ISIS controls have been truly decolonized. There is no music, there are no rights, slavery is back and every decision is made by a cleric with a militia or a militia leader with a cleric.

That’s Mohammed. It’s the Koran. It’s Islam.

ISIS, or something very much like it, was always waiting to reemerge out of the chaos. Before ISIS, there were the Wahhabi armies of the Ikhwan which did most of the same things as ISIS. The British bombed them to pieces in the 1920s and the remainder became the Saudi Arabian National Guard. The insistence on democratic institutions weakened the military juntas holding back Islamist insurgencies. Islamists took power across the region. Where they couldn’t win elections, they went to war. But whether they won on the battlefield or the ballot box, violence and instability followed them.

The fundamental mistake of the Arab Spring was the failure to understand that Islamist democracy is still a road leading to the Caliphate. Turkey’s Erdogan, the Islamist whose rule was used to prove that Islamist democracy can work, now openly promotes the reestablishment of the Ottoman Empire. Or as Mullah Krekar of Ansar Al-Islam put it, “The resistance is not only a reaction to the American invasion; it is part of the continuous Islamic struggle since the collapse of the Caliphate. All Islamic struggles since then are part of one organized efforts to bring back the Caliphate.” A decade later, the Norwegian Jihadist leader has proven to be more accurate than his Western hosts.

ISIS is not a reaction. It’s the underlying pathology in the Muslim world. Everything planted on top of that, from democracy to dictatorships, from smartphones to soft drinks, suppresses the disease. But the disease is always there. The left insists that Western colonialism is the problem. But the true regional alternative to Western colonialism is slavery, genocide and the tyranny of Jihadist bandit armies.

Our policy for fighting ISIS is colonialism by another name. We are trying to reform Iraqi institutions in line with our values and build a viable Iraqi military along the lines of our own military. We’re doing much of what the British were doing, but without their financial interests or imperial ambitions.

And all of this is reluctantly overseen by Barack Obama; the progressive campaigner against colonialism.

To deal with a problem, we must be honest about what it is and what we are doing about it. If we lie to ourselves, we cannot and will not succeed. After the failure of democracy and political Islam, Obama has been forced to return to what works. Islamization has failed and so we are back to trying Westernization. The missing element is admitting that Islamization has failed because Islam was the problem all along. The West is the solution.

But institutional Westernization that that never goes beyond a few government offices and military officers won’t work. Neither will the attempt to artificially inject a few big ideas such as democracy into an undemocratic tribal culture. The only alternative to depending on military juntas is transforming the people. Sunni Gulf Arabs responded to their military and economic dependence on the West with a largely successful campaign to Islamize the West. The West won a culture war with the USSR. It is capable of winning one with Saudi Arabia. It has even unintentionally won a culture war with Iran.

ISIS is not a military force. It is a cultural one. Much of its success has come from its cultural appeal.

As long as the Middle East is defined in terms of Islam, some variation of the Islamic State or the Muslim Brotherhood bent on recreating the Caliphate will continue reemerging. We can accept that and give up, but the growing number of Muslim migrants and settlers mean that it will emerge in our country as well.

We have a choice between Islamization and de-Islamization.

After defeating Saddam, we pursued the de-Baathization of Iraq. If we are going to intervene in the Muslim world, it should not be to reward one Islamist group, whether it’s Iran or the Muslim Brotherhood, at the expense of another. Instead we must carve out secular spaces by making it clear that our support is conditional on civil rights for Christians, non-believers and other non-Muslims.

Our most potent weapon isn’t the jet, it’s our culture. We disrupt Islamists with our culture even when we aren’t trying. Imagine what we could accomplish if we really tried.

But first we must abandon the idea that we need to take sides in Islamic civil wars. Any intervention we undertake should be conditioned on a reciprocal degree of de-Islamization from those governments that we are protecting. Instead of pursuing democracy, we should strengthen non-Islamic and counter-Islamic forces in the Muslim world.

We can’t beat ISIS with Islam and we can’t fight for freedom while endorsing constitutions that make Sharia law into the law of the land in places like Iraq and Libya.

We don’t only need to defeat ISIS. We must defeat the culture that makes ISIS inevitable.


TOPICS: Government; History; Politics; Religion
KEYWORDS: culturaljihad; deislamization; greenfield; isis; sultanknish
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FReepmail or drop me a comment to get on or off the Sultan Knish ping list. I highly recommend an occasional look at the Sultan Knish blog. It is a rich source of materials, links and more from one of the preeminent writers of our age.

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Lou

1 posted on 05/22/2015 2:54:33 PM PDT by Louis Foxwell
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To: daisy mae for the usa; AdvisorB; wizardoz; free-in-nyc; Vendome; Georgia Girl 2; blaveda; ...

2 posted on 05/22/2015 2:55:38 PM PDT by Louis Foxwell (This is a wake up call. Join the Sultan Knish ping list.)
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To: Louis Foxwell

I wonder how much Soros has donated to them. Lots I bet...


3 posted on 05/22/2015 2:56:16 PM PDT by jsanders2001
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To: Louis Foxwell

bkmk


4 posted on 05/22/2015 2:57:29 PM PDT by Sergio (An object at rest cannot be stopped! - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight)
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To: Louis Foxwell

bump


5 posted on 05/22/2015 2:58:08 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: Louis Foxwell

Greendield is the 21st century Thomas Paine.


6 posted on 05/22/2015 3:00:06 PM PDT by jsanders2001
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To: Louis Foxwell

And the only way to de-Islamize a person is to plant him or her face down in a grace with his/her butt aimed at Mekkah with pig fat poured into the grave before filling it in.


7 posted on 05/22/2015 3:02:36 PM PDT by MIchaelTArchangel
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To: Louis Foxwell

Nope. Overwhelming force. That’s how we defeated Shintoism in Japan and other ism’s..


8 posted on 05/22/2015 3:08:39 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: Aliska

Exterminating all mooslims down to age 3 or 4 is the only real way. Destroy every koran, destroy every piece of their history and culture, go all Lidice on Mecca, Even that may not do it. The way they act is ingrained in their DNA. But all this would be a start.


9 posted on 05/22/2015 3:25:01 PM PDT by IluvmyKalashnikov
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To: Louis Foxwell
At some point somebody might have to discuss some very drastic (and horrifying) solutions to the problem. The world can't go on worrying forever about some Islamic nutcase setting off a nuclear bomb in a major population center.

I don't believe in mass slaughter, but if one a-bomb from an Islamic nutter goes off somewhere, we might have to take very harsh actions of which mass quarantining would be a lesser harsh solution. Harsher actions might have to be taken.

10 posted on 05/22/2015 3:40:37 PM PDT by driftless2
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To: IluvmyKalashnikov

I have come to believe that certain belief and behavorial traits are inherited. But I’m not a proponent of killing them all. Then we would be no better than ISIS. But a few selected targets, even if they use innocent civilians as shields, might be a start.


11 posted on 05/22/2015 4:00:48 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: Aliska

I’d disagree about being the same as ISIS, as we do not rape, behead children, burn people in cages, and commit FGM. I just meant bomb or shoot them all. Quarantine procedures would not work imho. Their entire way of life must be undone in order to de islamisize that bunch. These ain’t nazis or Japanese we’re dealing with. They are modern day barbarians.


12 posted on 05/22/2015 4:07:30 PM PDT by IluvmyKalashnikov
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To: Louis Foxwell

The west thinks they are only at war with islamists and most muslims are moderate and good people.

This infidel sees it much differently.


13 posted on 05/22/2015 4:29:53 PM PDT by umgud (When under attack, victims want 2 things; God & a gun)
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To: IluvmyKalashnikov
No, you are right but when we bomb we burn people alive and other horrors and our pilots don't have to look at the carnage. We have a few soldiers who go rogue but overall ISIS is much worse.

I don't know if the God I believe in wants us to kill them all. There is something very tenacious about that religion though. Now they are so scattered among our populations, it isn't going to happen so why talk about it?

We can't seem to let enough of them in our country anyway.

Sometimes I get so mad I feel like it but I don't think God would condone it at this stage of things. There are still some who liked and trusted us and want to live in peace.

I saw a photo of a Ba'Hai temple last night (OT). It was built like a lotus. Damn it was pretty. But I have to ask myself would I want to worship in such a place if it was more or less doctrinally pure Christianity? No. It wouldn't feel right. Just as simple as that. I am conditioned in my genes that a church has to look like a traditional place of Christian worship.

What about my religion? What would it take to eradicate it out of me and other Christians of all stripes? Maybe we'd better look at that because it's on somebody's agenda.

14 posted on 05/22/2015 4:34:49 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: Aliska

We defeat the barbarians with missionaries backed up by military force. They must be required to listen, to interact without the option of killing what they do not like. Hearts and minds is fundamental. Getting there requires policing barbarism.
Allowing ISIS to destroy Christian churches and behead Jesus’ followers exacerbates the problem. If there is no price to pay for murder then the killing continues and worsens. That is what we are seeing.
With a CIC who is conflicted about our basic purpose there is no hope of overcoming. With Obama we are left unarmed and dead. We must be rid of him and everything he stands for. We must return to our basic nature, to require peace, if necessary, at the barrel of a gun.


15 posted on 05/22/2015 5:30:36 PM PDT by Louis Foxwell (This is a wake up call. Join the Sultan Knish ping list.)
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To: Louis Foxwell
You have to look at what draws people to the religion in the first place. Power. Earthly power and heavenly sensual rewards. People are drawn to that if they don't know Jesus Christ who probably seems to them like some wimp. Too bad. In time they will regret it.

I don't believe in forced conversions. It's not going to happen because the world is starting to hate Christians. See it every day in comments. Not here.

I realize I have contradicted myself on this subject. Our only choice is to bomb a bunch of them along with civilians although I would prefer to spare the civilians. The American people, in general, want the Shias and Sunnis and whoever else caught up in that maelstrom to fight it out themselves. No more ground troops.

When I see what they have done in Ramadi, for example, my inclination is to flatten the place. It was when we took Fallujah the first time, too. Tell non-combatants to get out but they will be held as human shields. So be it. Wipe it off the face of the earth. Sometimes it is the only way.

They are not ready to accept Christianity and maybe it is too late for them anyway.

16 posted on 05/22/2015 5:51:06 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: Aliska

I never said or implied anything about forced conversion. Perhaps you are not aware of the work of missionaries. Their goal is to introduce Christ to nonbelievers. The policing is simply to prevent their listener from beheading the missionary.
Barbarians must not be allowed to get away with barbarism. Force must be applied is to prevent them from doing evil or to punish them mightily if they do.
The work of the missionary is to witness to the power of Christ to change lives. This is the real work of the Christian world, bringing lost souls out of the darkness of evil into the light of God’s love.
Muslims stand in need of conversion. That can never be valid if it is forced. The immense power of Christians in the mideast today refusing to give up Christ and become Muslim even to the point of death, is a powerful witness that sears the souls of their killers. ISIS and the rest of this vicious cult must not be allowed to continue their violence. They must be required to accept a modicum of civilization.


17 posted on 05/22/2015 8:24:41 PM PDT by Louis Foxwell (This is a wake up call. Join the Sultan Knish ping list.)
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To: Louis Foxwell
You are correct, you didn't say anything about forced conversion. I agree it would be good to send missionaries but we can't use our military to back them up unless they just happen to be there in the course of another assignment. It's not their mission and if we allow the military to back one religion's missionaries, we have to or should allow backing other religions.

Right now I don't even know if our military can say Jesus Christ any more unless in cursing.

I believe they have aided in rescuing captive missionaries, however. I only remember one case, the two being held in Afghanistan who after a huge hassle were eventually released. The military may have had a role in that, at least escorting them to safety out or on a flight.

Saudi Arabia would never let any missionary in. It would have to be by stealth, and we can't involve our military into that kind of intrigue.

That being said, God has his ways, and He can speak to the hearts of those whom he will. I don't despair over more conversions if only a few. It's like God turns his attention elsewhere because we have made it plain through our laws that He is no longer welcome here except as some formality and to faithful remaining who are probably in a minority.

Remember when they guffawed (I didn't) at Ann Coulter when she said we ought to convert Muslims to Christianity (more I can't remember). Even in spite of that, if God wants it to happen, it will happen.

So I hope I didn't offend by my response.

Reminds me of years ago I read a book called "God's Smuggler". A Danish? missionary smuggled bibles behind the Iron Curtain. I believed it at the time. How do i know now if it was true? Some amazing things seem to have happened at border crossings, etc.

I think more Christians are destined to be killed for their faith; I don't know how many.

18 posted on 05/22/2015 8:47:52 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: Louis Foxwell
We defeat the barbarians with missionaries backed up by military force.

I agree. The final solution is to change their culture.

Where the force comes in is in soundly defeating them. Their ideology falls apart when they are confronted by a superior force. If they are losing all the battles it is impossible to believe their ideology is the best.

19 posted on 05/23/2015 7:14:12 AM PDT by oldbrowser (We have a rogue government in Washington.)
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To: Louis Foxwell
What an IDIOT Louis Foxwell is?
A GREAT START to "Fighting ISIS" would be Napalm.
20 posted on 05/23/2015 7:22:09 AM PDT by Yosemitest (It's Simple ! Fight, ... or Die !)
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