LEED Green Buildings -- Surprising Factors

personal observation | May 12, 2014 | KC Burke

[KC Burke]

We see a lot of buildings being built with LEED Green Building standards. Often these are built with public money. Even the Federal Government has realized there is a limit to much of this outcome driven politicized regulation and has limited public funded projects to Silver level if Gold or Platinum will result in added cost.

The surprising thing about the Green Building craze is that they are often energy hogs and they often become so-called "sick buildings" dispite their aledged intent under the LEED standards. How is that possible?

First let's discuss energy usage. While Green Standards mandate 30% more efficiency that ASHRAE standard compliant equipment at a minimum, often this equipment has to be oversized and operate inefficiently or outside normal engineering design confines. It starts with mandating fresh air operable windows, added daylight and beyond standard engineering practice hightened outside air changes per hour. Add to that building flush-outs and often you have a building with equipment that is oversized and takes more to run because of the amount of daylight, fresh air and air changes you have to also include.

You end up with a building that is therefore more energy wasteful than ASHRAE standards would allow it to be under normal design, all to meet occupant friendly standards while pretending to achieve energy efficiency.

[KC Burke]

As we continue with the issue, we have mandated air barrier standards which make these buildings very "tight" in their insulating envelopes. This same feature then has the added negative feature of making wall systems that cannot breathe when they do have the normal localized failures to components that buildings often do.

Therefore what we are starting to see is super tight buildings that have a damaged area allowing moisture into the wall cavity, but unlike normal vapor barrier or vapor retarder, air barriers actually promote poor venting and drying out of localized failures or poor maintenance and the promotion of black mold and other "sick" building characteristics.

As we learned so long ago in The Road to Serfdom, government planners and planned outcomes are not a substitute for true market forces and informed ownership of property.

I have a lot of personal insight into this trend and it is not all negative but I would like for others to comment.

[KC Burke]

Any thoughts or observations?

[mountainlion]

It is kinda strange to me that building codes and recommendations are used against the public but when the government builds something that all goes out the window.

[KC Burke]

Sometimes the government buildings have to incorporate these types of standards to the nth degree, even when it is beyond common sense and becoming the very nature of wasteful.

A good discussion is here:
http://newsletters.agc.org/environment/2009/08/26/guest-article-the-hidden-risks-of-green-buildings-why-building-problems-are-likely-in-hot-humid-climates/

[KC Burke]

another interesting article:
http://www.greenlodgingnews.com/hidden-risks-of-green-buildings—why-moisture—mold

[CommieCutter]

Bfl

[CommieCutter]

Bfl

[IronJack]

I believe that LEED certification, like any other trendy program, will have unforeseen consequences. I dispute some of the “sick building” criticism, because I believe that is just more trendy gibberish. But I question some of the cost “savings” being touted for LEED certification. I’m not sure what the current regs require, but I suspect they add considerably to the construction costs. And aside from a sticker on your door and that oogy feel-good sensation you get from doing something wonderful for Mother Earth, where’s the payback?

[KC Burke]

Some of my points exactly. I deal with this on almost every project I estimate or construct.

I have actually seen the flush out procedure lead to problems when owner’s fail to understand that this monsterous introduction of outside air means you have to change out thousands of dollars of air filters and if you don’t — bam, those filters load up, block up and get sucked into air handlers filling them with dirt and tearing out fans and motors, all because they won’t follow the complex procedures.

[Hildy]

DO NOT get me started on LEEDS. What a freaking scam. I am the newly elected Chairman of our County Board of Supervisors. Several years ago they built a new library with that “LEEDS” certification. In front of the building is six huge parking spaces which read “LOW EMISSION CARS ONLY” I will tell you I have never seen an electric car in this town ... EVER. To me, it’s like saying “Mercedes Benz Only” It’s discriminatory. I asked why they exist. I was told it was part of their LEEDS certification. I asked what do we get by being certified..after going back and forth for fifteen minutes they finally admitted all they get for it was a plaque on the wall. That’s it. I said, “I WANT THOSE PARKING SPACES GONE. And by next week they will be. All it takes is people having some backbone and standing up for what’s right and calling out stupid when stupid exists.

[Svartalfiar]

SMU has built a bunch of these within the past few years. Lucky for us, Dallas is a hot, dry climate. No humidity to cause problems here! :)

[Mears]

Good for you,Hildy.

.

[1010RD]

Bravo, Hildy! We need more FReepers to run for local offices. IIRC there are some 300,000 registered FReepers. If just 10% ran and won, you’d see a peaceful revolution.

[KC Burke]

In the construction industry there are a lot of misgivings. However, we build what people design and what people pay to have built. My biggest displeasure is that in the certification there is a lot of propaganda wherein they try to make these building look like something on paper which they often aren't in reality -- efficient, energy saving and low maintenance. It is a sin to call this to anyone's notice due to PC culture invasion.

[KC Burke]

Keep in mind that the outside air issues make the AC a lot more expensive than it would have been, both in first cost and in operation.

[WorkingClassFilth]

I know of a silver LEEDs building that has about 5,000 ft^2 of norther facing glass in a single plane. Questioning this, they said, “I dunno.” As the article states, it is a political goal and has little to do with sensibility.

[JeanLM]

Good job!

I also object to the consultants who feed off these green building codes. One I have been dealing with for a year would not OK an ink as part of a “cradle to grave” rating system of their own creation. The ink as it happens is a water based system which will replace the existing solvent based ink, and save the manufacturer over a million dollars a year. It will be encapsulated in a wall system and never be exposed to human contact. The wait was because one of the components manufacturers would not reveal his proprietary recipe until we twisted his arm.

There are many examples of this misguided pseudo regulation, I’m sure.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that worked. A complex system designed from scratch never works and cannot be patched up to make it work. You have to start over with a working simple system. – General Systemantics by John Gall (1975, page 71)

This is what comes when a bunch of self-appointed "smartest guys in the room" decide that all the previous knowledge in a subject was wrong, but now that they're here they can do it ten times better because they are so much smarter than the people who came before.

[KC Burke]

Good insight into the mindset of the “planners” from the left.

We can’t object in their minds because we don’t “care” as much as they do.

Thomas Sowell’s Vision of the Anointed is a good reference here as well.

[VerySadAmerican]

Green crap is money laundering and the redistribution of the wealth. They taking from the taxpayers and giving it to political cronies.