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Losing Privileges
R.C. Sproul Jr. ^ | 1-14-14 | R.C. Sproul Jr.

Posted on 01/14/2014 7:47:13 PM PST by ReformationFan

Is this a Christian country? There are likely as many ways to answer the question as there are stripes on our flag. Yes, the country was populated at its beginning with Christians looking for a place to worship freely. But that was before we became a country. Yes, many of our founding fathers were sincere professing Christians. But many of them were not. Yes, we are Christian in the same sense as all of Europe is Christian — it is the faith tradition of the majority in our country. But no, we have rejected the faith of our fathers. Yes, our country’s laws, traditions, symbols, culture, were shaped by predominately Protestant notions. But no, we are living in times of great change. And therein lies the rub.

Our nation for decades enjoyed an uneasy peace on the question of the Christian faith in the public square grounded in a de pacto secularism and a de facto Christianity. That is, while the state could not, by pact, or on the grounds of a modern understanding of the First Amendment, promote any one particular religion. But, everyone knew our cultural momentum was Christian. Thus our pledge acknowledged that we are under God, our money noted we trusted in Him, and even the astronauts circling the moon read from Genesis to the watching world.

As the culture has been moving more vehemently into an aggressive secularism we are witnessing the steady erasure of the unwritten rules. We have moved from being the dominant cultural force to being the norm, to being oddities, and we are swiftly on our way to becoming pariahs. This, we would be wise to remember, is yet well short of what our brothers suffer in Muslim and communist countries. We don’t want to be the church that cried persecution.

That said, we would likewise be wise to, even as we seek to make known the glory of the reign of Christ over all things, get used to the new normal. It is not easy giving up privileges we once took for granted. The broader culture no longer recognizes our day of rest, and so many of us are expected to work, or to get our children to the game. It no longer recognizes our holy days, so now Turkey Day opens the Winter Holiday Season, and “Merry Christmas” is now less a greeting, more a political statement. The broader culture finds our sexual morality not just silly and old-fashioned but oppressive and demeaning.

While I long for and labor for a day when all men everywhere acknowledge the Lordship of Christ over all things, the loss of these privileges comes with a great blessing, the giving of a greater privilege — we are now hated and despised for His name’s sake.

Or are we? It will not be long, I suspect, before those who believe marriage is between one man and one woman will have all the cultural respect as a member of the KKK. Will the church be telling us to soften on this issue, to not talk about it, so accommodate the broader world for the sake of soul-winning? If so, we will have sold our own soul. Jesus was rather clear — if we were of the world, the world would love its own. But we have been bought with a price (John 15:19). Pray that we don’t sell our birthright of persecution for the pottage of respectability.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Politics; Religion; Society
KEYWORDS: 1stamendment; homonaziagenda; homosexualagenda; losing; pca; presbyterian; privileges; rcsprouljr; religiousfreedom; religiousliberty; religiouspersecution; secularism; sproul

1 posted on 01/14/2014 7:47:13 PM PST by ReformationFan
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To: ReformationFan

The popular culture, and liberal politics, is getting close to the point at which supporting marriage between a man and a woman only, will brand you as bigoted.

The liberals have framed the issues as issues of civil rights, just like civil rights for minorities.

If we get to the point of 50 state homosexual marriage, it will indeed be a case of any still opposed will be silenced, because we’ll be told that it’s the law of the land, and that the only reason to oppose homosexual marriage is hatred of the homosexual.

Just because all anti-gay bigots oppose homosexual marriage, doesn’t mean that everyone who opposes homosexual marriage is a bigot. But that nuance is lost on the liberals and the media who control the tenor of the debate.


2 posted on 01/14/2014 7:56:51 PM PST by Dilbert San Diego
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To: ReformationFan

Sproul is ignorant of the history. Our founding fathers were either Christian or Deist. Deism was trendy at the time but died out around 1810 due to boredom perhaps

We have been one of the preeminant Christian counyries since our founding. Claims to the contrary merely expose the author to charges of ignorance.

Read some history before you presume to instruct others in well traveled historical issues.


3 posted on 01/14/2014 8:12:26 PM PST by buffaloguy
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To: buffaloguy

You are wrong in your assumptions
....perhaps you should read up on your history of Sproul Jr and Sproul Sr


4 posted on 01/14/2014 8:28:46 PM PST by Guenevere
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To: buffaloguy
Sproul is ignorant of the history. Our founding fathers were either Christian or Deist.

So, then he was correct in saying that not all were professing Christians, right?

Regards,

5 posted on 01/14/2014 9:27:28 PM PST by alexander_busek (Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.)
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To: buffaloguy
This country started out as a christian nation. It isn't anymore. We have to understand that. True Christians are outnumbered in this country. We're in the minority.

But Jesus addressed the problem. The Jews were looking for a leader who would solve their political problems (the Romans). They wanted an end to tyranny. They wanted lower taxes. They wanted self government. And when pressed, Christ's answer was "give unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's" That's where we are.

Years ago Jerry Falwell started "the moral majority". It didn't take to many years to realize most of its members weren't that moral and they weren't the majority.

6 posted on 01/14/2014 9:34:00 PM PST by kjam22 (my newest music video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7gNI9bWO3s)
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To: kjam22

How did you determine that most of the people of the Christian right was/is not moral, and compared to who?


7 posted on 01/14/2014 9:36:16 PM PST by ansel12 (Ben Bradlee -- JFK told me that "he was all for people's solving their problems by abortion".)
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To: ansel12
If they had been "the moral majority"... we wouldn't be where we are now.
8 posted on 01/14/2014 9:38:23 PM PST by kjam22 (my newest music video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7gNI9bWO3s)
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To: kjam22
Years ago Jerry Falwell started "the moral majority". It didn't take to many years to realize most of its members weren't that moral

How did you determine that most of the people of the Christian right was/is not moral, and compared to who?

9 posted on 01/14/2014 9:49:29 PM PST by ansel12 (Ben Bradlee -- JFK told me that "he was all for people's solving their problems by abortion".)
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To: ansel12

Are you arguing that most of Christianity is moral?


10 posted on 01/14/2014 9:54:38 PM PST by kjam22 (my newest music video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7gNI9bWO3s)
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To: kjam22

LOL, why can’t you just read my post and answer it?


11 posted on 01/14/2014 9:57:24 PM PST by ansel12 (Ben Bradlee -- JFK told me that "he was all for people's solving their problems by abortion".)
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To: ansel12
I'm just curious if you're really going to argue that most of Christianity is moral...

Do you remember when Disney went "gay"? Anita Bryant, the southern baptist boycott and all that. Why didn't the moral majority force Disney out of business? Why didn't Christians stand up and say we're not going to support Disney. The answer is because most of the Christians couldn't bear to deprive their kids of going to Disney World... sure we didn't like the gay stuff... but hey, we can't keep the kiddos from seeing Mickey Mouse...

12 posted on 01/14/2014 10:01:12 PM PST by kjam22 (my newest music video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7gNI9bWO3s)
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To: kjam22

Good Lord, you are an idiot, you pronounced the majority of the members of the “moral Majority” as not very moral, and I asked you how you determined that, you seem to be drunk or stoned judging by your inability to read my simple question.


13 posted on 01/14/2014 10:04:55 PM PST by ansel12 (Ben Bradlee -- JFK told me that "he was all for people's solving their problems by abortion".)
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To: ansel12

I don’t drink.. and I don’t smoke. I’m answering your question. You look at the positions christians have taken during our lifetime. If you think the moral majority was moral and in the majority... good for you. Its clear that it wasn’t. If it had been.. we wouldnt’ be where we are now. It ain’t rocket science.


14 posted on 01/14/2014 10:07:45 PM PST by kjam22 (my newest music video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7gNI9bWO3s)
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To: ansel12

How many pastors will tell you that most of the people in church congregations don’t really know Christ? You think I’m the only person who’s made that statement?


15 posted on 01/14/2014 10:13:35 PM PST by kjam22 (my newest music video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7gNI9bWO3s)
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To: ReformationFan

I assume this is the son of the (very well spoken) radio preacher?


16 posted on 01/14/2014 11:32:38 PM PST by faithhopecharity
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To: ReformationFan

“Yes, many of our founding fathers were sincere professing Christians. But many of them were not”

WRONG! Let me correct that for you.....

Yes, MOST (if not all) of our founding fathers were sincere professing Christians. But possibly a FEW of them were not.

In researching this subject a few months ago, I was shocked at how often our founding fathers proclaimed the name of JESUS in their writings and our salvation through Him. The proclamations of their Christian faith were unashamed and profound.

The idea that our founding fathers weren’t devout Christians is a MYTH. All you have to do is read their own recorded words!

The United States was founded as a “Christian Nation” by devout, bible thumping, Jesus proclaiming, Christians. GET OVER IT.

And it still is a “Christian Nation” although we have lost some ground.


17 posted on 01/14/2014 11:41:23 PM PST by faucetman ( Just the facts, ma'am, Just the facts)
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To: ReformationFan

Excellent post. As always, Dr. Sproul is always eloquent and spot-on. Thanks for this thread.


18 posted on 01/14/2014 11:54:21 PM PST by This Just In
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To: faucetman

Pardon me, but Dr. Sproul said that “many” were Christians. He did not state none of our Founding Father’s were Christian, nor did Dr. Sproul say that ALL of our Founding Father’s were.

Many of them were Deist. Believing in a Creator, or God doesn’t automatically mean you’re a Christian.

Dr. Sproul was correct in his statement.


19 posted on 01/15/2014 12:00:43 AM PST by This Just In
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To: ReformationFan

BTW, I mistook this to be Dr. Sproul SR. I did not realize the author was JR.


20 posted on 01/15/2014 12:10:35 AM PST by This Just In
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To: faithhopecharity

You assume correctly : )


21 posted on 01/15/2014 5:40:22 AM PST by Guenevere
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To: This Just In

Still a good post whether from Sr. or Jr.(I like the work of both father and son Sprouls).


22 posted on 01/15/2014 6:24:40 AM PST by ReformationFan
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To: Guenevere

Thanks. Good he’s got a kid to carry on.


23 posted on 01/15/2014 6:30:26 AM PST by faithhopecharity (C)
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To: ReformationFan

Jesus, that Rabbi from Nazareth, answered the legal scholars of His day -defining “marriage” thus At the beginning God Created them male and female and said for this cause shall a man leave his father and his mother and cleave unto his wife and the two shall become one flesh.(Matthew 19:3-12; Mark 10:2-12 —and compare Genesis 1:27; 2:24 . When the Judges violate the Constitution the only Right action is IMPEACHMENT. when any Judge orders a Christian to do that which is contrary to what is written — We ought follow Peter and the other Apostles when “strictly commanded to not teach in that Name” We ought to obey God rather than men.” Our Constitution begins “We the people” It does NOT say we the corrupt and lawless Courts— The only way man can “lose” the rights given by God— is if that man chooses to surrender them. so when any Court says same sex marriage is legal I say “We ought to obey God rather than men.”


24 posted on 01/15/2014 6:36:53 AM PST by StonyBurk (ring)
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To: kjam22

Wake up!!! Haven’t you been listening to our beloved President? America is a Muslim country. :-)


25 posted on 01/15/2014 7:47:40 AM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: ReformationFan

Sproul Jr. has some pretty good things to say.

He is more of a commentator on the culture than his dad who speaks more on the Bible and theology...both are doing so much for the Christian cause.


26 posted on 01/15/2014 8:02:37 AM PST by what's up
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To: faucetman

People forget to look at what church they belonged to, and what that church taught about Jesus.


27 posted on 01/15/2014 8:58:19 AM PST by ansel12 (Ben Bradlee -- JFK told me that "he was all for people's solving their problems by abortion".)
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To: faithhopecharity

RC Sproul Sr is turning 75 soon.


28 posted on 01/15/2014 3:04:36 PM PST by Guenevere
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To: Guenevere

Thanks. Well, he’s achieved psalm 90:10.
May he continue on to a full Genesis 6:3. I like his radio talks.


29 posted on 01/15/2014 3:46:43 PM PST by faithhopecharity (C)
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To: faithhopecharity

Absolutely!....We have his video series too........From Dust to Glory.....and our adult Sunday School is doing Sproul’s ......’Parables’


30 posted on 01/15/2014 3:50:31 PM PST by Guenevere
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