Skip to comments.Choosing a “biker mob” gun
Posted on 10/05/2013 5:53:28 AM PDT by marktwain
This image of a biker gang pummeling Internet executive Alexian Lienn as his wife helplessly looks on is terrifying.
Lienn and his wife were enjoying a day out celebrating their wedding anniversary with their baby daughter when a so-called pop-up gang of bikers surrounded them as they drove on Manhattans West Side Highway. One biker, later identified as Chistopher Cruz, swerved in front of Lienns Range Rover and brake-checked the vehicle by slamming on his brakes, forcing the vehicle to stop. 2,000 lb SUVs being much harder to stop than a sport bike weight just hundreds of pounds, the SUV bumped Cruz and came to halt. Other bikers quickly swarmed the SUV, slashing its tires and trying to get to the terrified family trapped inside.
We covered the details of what happened next in an earlier article that features a video of the ensuing chase, but that video just coincidentally cuts off before the biker mob pulls a now-trapped Mr. Lienn from his vehicle and beats and stomps him on the pavement as his wife helplessly looks on, their two-year-old daughter in the back seat. Mr. Lienn could have easily been killed, and was completely at the mobs mercy.
While this particular mob formed in New York City, they can occur anywhere, and the thuggish riders that participate come from far away. Edwin Mieses Jr, the biker left paralyzed as Lienns SUV ran over him trying to escape, came all the way for Lawrence, MA for the ride (and had a long arrest record of dozens of motor vehicle infractions).
Video of the attackand revelations that the NYPD has a policy of ignoring these gangshas given many people to consider what they would do if caught in a similar situation, and for Americans that live in states where they insist on exercising their freedom, that may involve preparations to use a firearm in self defense.
Long guns (rifles or shotguns) are impractical in vehicles, as are their derivative pistols (AK- and AR-based) because of size limitations.
Small pocket pistols and revolvers, while comfortable for everyday carry, are limited by small magazine/cylinder capacity.
Were I trapped in such a situation, pinned in by traffic and confronted by a hostile mob looking to breach the vehicles cabin with the obvious intent of causing my family harm, Id want a service-sized semi-automatic pistol with a standard-capacity magazine of 15-20 rounds, with at least two spare magazines within close reach.
Frankly, this sort of situation calls for the Zimmerman special.
After Florida neighborhood watchman (and road hazard in his own right) George Zimmerman had his Kel-Tec PF9 pistol confiscated and he became the center of a political firestorm, he purchased a FN Five-seveN pistol. He did so at a time when the New Black Panthers put a bounty on his head, and there was the very real possibility that he would have been lynched by a mob if his location were revealed.
He needed a handgun that could carry a large number of rounds, so that he could engage multiple threats quickly and accurate.
We dont know for sure who helped Zimmermann select the Five-seveN, (though I have a hunch it was probably his Federal Air Marshall friend, Mark Ostermann), but it was an inspired choice. The Five-seveN boasts a factory standard 20-round magazines, and the high-velocity, low-recoiling 5.7x28mm round that lets a shooter get back on target quickly and transition from one target to the next.
When he turned himself in to be charged for murder, Zimmerman turned over his Five-seveN, 3 20-round magazines, and 61 rounds of ammunition that had become part of his everyday carry gear. It was all released back to him after the trial (Zimmermans PF9 remains in the custody of a spiteful U.S Department of Justice). He is believed to be carrying this gun to this day.
The Five-seveN is a bit of an exotic, but the same role could just as easily be filled by a Glock 17, Springfield Armory XD, Beretta M9, or any other service-size pistol with a 15+ round magazine capacity with several spare magazines in reserve.
We live in a world where criminal mobs form in minutes via social media, and police would rather ignore them than confront them.
What would you chose to defend your family with in such a situation?
Just nuke NYC
Why not a PS90?
XDm 9mm.....19+1 capacity.
I recently started to carry this. If you need more than 19, you are in serious doo doo
I don’t know of an SUV that only weighs 2000 pounds.
If you’re in full-auto land, I’d look at an FN P90.
I’d pick the GAU-Avenger seven barrel rotating cannon on my personal A-10 Warthog.
Those 30mm depleted uranium rounds will do the job!
18.5 inch pump shotgun with pistol grip loaded with 12 ga 00 buckshot. My Mossberg Maverick holds 6 in the tube mag and 1 in the chamber. 2 rounds fired into the swarm will disperse the rest and you still have 5 rounds for any bold ones.
Low calorie SUV.
The big weapon he had at his hands, the driver failed to use, other than when driving over the bikes at one point to escape. You can’t out-speed or out-brake a sport bike, but you can surely cause them to stay away by intentionally weaving among them. This is a very basic and effective tactic taught at all tactical driving schools. Weave one foot right, two left, increasing until you are covering two lanes with high-speed S turns. A bike can do a lot, but it can’t resist a 5,000# four-wheeler smacking it sideways. Stunt bikes rely on “cages” driving straight down the highway in fear, then they can zoom right along side or in front of you. Start weaving at 60mph, and the bikes WILL back off. If not, they will be flung into the trees.
Since it appears 5 police officers were in the group, they may have been wearing vest. You should also take penetration into consideration.
I dont know of an SUV that only weighs 2000 pounds.
Yes, you are correct. It is likely closer to 6000 pounds.
I have made the same type of error, in a rush to get out a story. There is also a typo in the story, where the story reads “for Lawrence” instead of “from Lawrence”.
I would like to encourage a little understanding of the new media on these points. We often work without a net (editor) to catch these sort of errors.
I have been looking for volunteer editors for my work. No takers yet.
HK USP .45. 12 rounds. Preference would be my Remington 870 Police model shotgun. In any event, one is sure to lose their hearing when firing inside enclosed space. The report from an 18 inch barrel (12 ga.) is most discomfiting. HK .45 not pleasant either. But being beaten/killed by biker mob even less inviting...
The FiveSeven is a cool gun, but its expensive and ammo is not easy to find (nor is it cheap). Just get anything that holds 15+ rounds. These crotch rocket rallies aren’t real gangs with some system of honor and brotherhood. They’re just punks who meet up over social media and decide to go harass motorists. I doubt that you’d have to shoot them all. Shoot a couple of them and the rest will scoot away.
I read the title, and thought immediately of the FN FiveseveN.
Expensive gun with pricy ammo, but worth it.
It would be great to have a conversion kit so you could train with .22LR.
You just have to hope that nobody in the mob is packin...
No problem. From some of the howlers I see in the DBM having an editor is no guarantee of accuracy anyway.
The FN 5.7x28 is on my wish list. If it is good enough for the Secret Service, it is good enough for me.
My thoughts exactly.
There are crossover SUV’s that are only a little bit bigger than a compact car.
If you shoot a vest-wearing attacker on a bike with a 9mm round, he will cease attacking you.
For the budget-minded, there’s the 7.62 X .25 Tokarev.
“The big weapon he had at his hands, the driver failed to use, other than when driving over the bikes at one point to escape.”
The problems Mr. Lienn had that make such tactics difficult is that he is in quite a bit of traffic, which eventually traps him.
The streets that he is driving on were very restrictive, with concrete barriers on both sides for much of the early chase.
The bikes mostly followed him to attack when he would finally be stopped.
The occupants of the SUV were franticly calling 911, trying to get backup. They did not know the police had a “hands off” policy.
For some gun gurus, the Five-SeveN is the handgun equivalent of the worlds most fire-proof paper hat. Its a brilliant technical achievement but who cares? For one thing, youre more likely to find Keira Knightley at Country Buffet than a box of 5.7×28mm ammo at K-Mart. For another, firing-off a hundred rounds of Five-SeveN ammo costs more than draining a particularly good bottle of Scotch. As for the weapon itself, you can buy two Springfield XDs for the price of one of FNs strangely-chambered pistols. Did I mention that the Five-SeveNs safety sits on the side of the guns barrel? Or that the grip is longer (end-to-end) than War and Peace? All of which makes the Five-SeveN a novelty gun for impressing range rovers who Glock around the clock. Right?
From the pictures, it looks like these bikers were a black group. Is that correct?
Hard to shoot while maneuvering a sportbike around a weaving SUV. Pay careful attention to anyone with a rider.
WTF? I heard about one off duty cop who just stood by and watched, but I didn't see anything about there being cops in the biker group. Where can I confirm this?
I like my Taurus Piblic Defender. Only a 5 shot revolver, but if those first two shots at the bikers by the bashing in the windows were 410 shotgun shells, the rest would have backed down
For a cheaper alternative, the 33-round Glock 18 mags work in the 17/19/26. Although if you need that much ammo, you probably should have brought an AR carbine.
The real interesting thing about the FN is that when the P90 was in development, they were aiming at caseless ammo with a square profile, 100 to a mag and no ejection. A guy I knew - editor or “Våpenjournalen” - actually had a tester for a while.
Don’t know why the concept was abandoned, but it seems undocumented today.
“From the pictures, it looks like these bikers were a black group. Is that correct?”
Many have said that the outlaw motorcycle riders were black. I believe many were. But if you look at the top picture in the article, it appears that two or three of the people wearing motorcycle helmets are white.
I know that road well. He was heading North on the West Side Highway. He could have hopped on the George Washington Bridge instead of into NYC. NJ State Troopers would have shut that down in a hurry.
Check it out.
“The real interesting thing about the FN is that when the P90 was in development, they were aiming at caseless ammo with a square profile, 100 to a mag and no ejection. A guy I knew - editor or Våpenjournalen - actually had a tester for a while.”
Lots of development money has been spent on caseless ammo. The problem is that it never works as well as cased ammo.
It can be made to work fairly well, it just has never been made to work as well as cased ammo, and the advantages are not enough to make up for the disadvantages.
“I know that road well. He was heading North on the West Side Highway. He could have hopped on the George Washington Bridge instead of into NYC. NJ State Troopers would have shut that down in a hurry.”
I do not know the area at all. Watching the video, it appeared to me that his choices were severely limited.
Having someone familiar with the area is very beneficial. Could you tell from the video if he was blocked from making the move you suggest, did not understand the option, or could not make the exit?
I own 11 motorcycles from sports bikes to Goldwings, if you are truly being pursued your best defensive weapon is marbles and an oil slick.
Bikers wear helmets so flash bangs may be ineffective and the latest leathers sport carbon fiber and spectra panels, not a true ballistic material but very protective.
Fit side and rear nozzles to your vehicle and all you need is vegetable oil, the marbles will bounce and hit the riders face plates, windshields and may actually topple the bike with the combination of a slippery agent.
Anyone can argue till the cows come home but that is what I would do, but since I live where there are no biker gangs I have no need for such a contraption.
I’m betting the author thought 1 Ton was 1,000 lbs......
Thus, a 2 ton vehicle becomes 2,000 lbs.....
The FN 57 is certainly a good weapon and with a large cap mag and the right ammo would be devastating.
However, a more reachable option would be a Glock 17 and a couple of the Glock Factory 33 round magazines loaded with DRT 9MM hollow point ‘frangible’ ammo. The frangible part being a metallic dust cloud that opens up a massive wound cavity that instantly lowers blood pressure to shock level.
Head shots....only head shots. Get good enough, get trained, get deadly.
They are all here working for free.
Good points...an exotic weapon that is expensive to run.
I usually carry a Glock G19 and a spare mag. 30 rounds total. When I carry the full sized 1911 (.45) I bring along one or two spare mags, 16 or 24 rounds total. With flash mobs (on bikes or not) becoming more common I’m thinking of adding another mag to my standard carry, or maybe just having a couple in my car.
Test that theory on some carbon fiber helmets at 90 mph driving, its anyones guess how well it may work.
If there were indeed 5 police officers in this motorcycle gang and they did nothing, then they aren’t off limits as aggressors in my book. Shoot them like any of the others.
Why not just install a liquid petroleum flamethrower on the sides of the car that would fry groups of carjackers at the push of a button like they used to do in South Africa?
In that case, you try for a head shot. It goes against what they teach you in firearms safety class, but when your survival is at stake all bets are off.
5 years ago that would have been a ludicrous discussion.
Not anymore senor.
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