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The Deepest Source of Our Troubles
Ricochet.com ^ | Dec 2, 2012 | Paul Rahe

Posted on 12/03/2012 5:34:08 PM PST by grey_whiskers

On Saturday, I touched on some of the sources of Mitt Romney's failure on 6 November, noting his almost willful alienation of Hispanic voters and his incompetence in executing a get-out-the-vote effort, but emphasizing, above all else, his decision -- most evident in his contentless acceptance speech at the Republican convention -- to eschew an appeal to first principles, to treat Barack Obama as a decent fellow with decent principles who is merely out of his depth, and to present himself to the voters as a more competent manager.

Of necessity, in that post, I ignored aspects of the situation unfavorable to Mitt Romney's candidacy that were completely beyond the Republican nominee's control. One of the reasons that Romney was unable, despite my hopes, to do in 2012 what Reagan did in 1980 is that, in the intervening 32 years a great many of the American citizens who voted for Ronald Reagan had died and been replaced by Americans educated and morally formed in a very different fashion.

(Excerpt) Read more at ricochet.com ...


TOPICS: Conspiracy; Government; History; Society
KEYWORDS: decline; demographics; feminism; paulrahe
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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Read the whole bloody thing.

That's an ORDER.

Cheers!

1 posted on 12/03/2012 5:34:18 PM PST by grey_whiskers
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To: grey_whiskers; neverdem; SunkenCiv; Cindy; LucyT; decimon; freedumb2003; ...

Read the whole bloody thing.

That’s an ORDER.

Cheers!


2 posted on 12/03/2012 5:35:37 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: grey_whiskers
What I would say to libertarians is this: Liberty requires a responsible citizenry, and the sexual revolution (very much like the drug culture, which was and is its Doppelgänger) promotes irresponsibility of every kind.

Very true. People who really want fiscal conservatism will have to also accept social conservatism. You cannot have the first without the second.

My big fear with libertarians is that they are simply Liberals -- they want the socially Liberal policies first and foremost, and if they end up not getting fiscal conservatism [shrug] its no big deal to them.

3 posted on 12/03/2012 5:47:48 PM PST by ClearCase_guy (Global Warming is a religion, and I don't want to be taxed to pay for a faith that is not mine.)
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To: grey_whiskers

On Monday morning everybody’s talking about the “incompetence” of the coach on Sunday. Where were you in October, September? The “incompetent” campaign lasted long enough to give you plenty of opportunities to point out this “incompetence”. Who’s incompetent now?


4 posted on 12/03/2012 5:53:56 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: grey_whiskers

Yes. What I’ve been saying here for years. Social conservatives need to understand the market and libertarian principles. Charity involves people helping other people, it does not involve letting the government take over, because they will inevitably use human “welfare” as a means of collecting votes, and even of encouraging stupid immoral behavior, which will result in more voters trapped on their political plantation.

And libertarians need to understand the necessity of moral rules and behavior. Without religion to impart morality and encourage solid families and communities, society breaks down into chaos. One cannot say too often that there is a necessary choice: there must be either freely chosen self-discipline, or discipline imposed arbitrarily by the state—which will devolve into the Gestapo.

That’s the basic principle. Also obvious in the past several elections that the leftist press does its best to split the conservative opposition and set them against each other. Libertarians seem especially subject to this maneuver. We had enough votes to win every election since the time of Reagan, but we didn’t—because the libertarians, the financial conservatives, and the social conservatives just couldn’t agree to work together.

Now, I’m not sure. I think we still have enough conservatives to win if only they would get their heads out of the sand and join forces—but the battlefield is getting tougher and tougher. And the Democrats have continually beefed up their ability to cheat at the polls and use crazy, crooked judges to bend the law.


5 posted on 12/03/2012 5:58:09 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: grey_whiskers

On August 7 Romney indicated that he would support an “audit the Fed” plank in the GOP platform.

The election was essentially over at that point. The entire machine will never allow this to happen, and thus the stars aligned to end Romney. And so it was, and it was not even close.


6 posted on 12/03/2012 6:16:43 PM PST by Ouderkirk (Democrats...the party of Slavery, Segregation, Sodomy, and Sedition)
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To: grey_whiskers; MestaMachine; KC_Lion; Godzilla; Domestic Church; dragonblustar; Oorang; ...

.

.

The Deepest Source of Our Troubles

[Haven’t read it, yet. Would it help to look in the mirror?]

.

(Nite, all.)


7 posted on 12/03/2012 6:17:20 PM PST by LucyT
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To: grey_whiskers

Bump for later review.


8 posted on 12/03/2012 6:18:35 PM PST by Slyfox (The key to Marxism is medicine - V. Lenin)
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To: grey_whiskers

The ruling class decided that Zero would get his 2 (Or 3 or more) terms before 2008. That’s why McCain scuppered the election and Romney did too. They never intended to win and did everything possible to avoid it.


9 posted on 12/03/2012 6:33:49 PM PST by Chuckster (The longer I live the less I care about what you think.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Mom used to say “You can’t legislate morality”. I agree.


10 posted on 12/03/2012 6:36:00 PM PST by Chuckster (The longer I live the less I care about what you think.)
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To: Chuckster

Laws are about legislating morality, whether in the tax code, or murder, a society figures out what they consider moral, and then make it law.


11 posted on 12/03/2012 6:45:35 PM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer's successful run in Nebraska)
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To: LucyT; grey_whiskers

Thanks for the ping and post.

From the article:

“The deepest source of our present discontents is the sexual revolution. Our abandonment of chastity as a norm has had dire political consequences.”

Michael Savage said so as well.


12 posted on 12/03/2012 6:46:15 PM PST by thecodont
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To: Revolting cat!
Where were you in October, September?

Working like a dog for Romney.

Where were you in January, February when I repeatedly said what would happen if the GOP was stupid enough to nominate Obama's dream opponent, the one man who was capable of losing this election AND losing seats in the Senate?

13 posted on 12/03/2012 6:48:54 PM PST by Jim Noble (Diseases desperate grown are by desperate appliance relieved or not at all.)
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To: grey_whiskers

Conserve America Party File.


14 posted on 12/03/2012 6:52:49 PM PST by Graewoulf ((Traitor John Roberts' Obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND the U.S. Constitution.))
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To: grey_whiskers

Good article. I agree with the author.


15 posted on 12/03/2012 6:56:09 PM PST by Tax-chick (Dan, is that your eyeball on the floor?)
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To: grey_whiskers
There are many reasons why Mitt Romney lost in 2012. Some, as I suggested in an earlier post, were his fault. Some of them were not. One of the latter is that the demographic deck was stacked against him in a fashion that it was not stacked against Ronald Reagan in 2008. If we do not find a way to reverse the sexual revolution, we are doomed. The future of liberty is contingent on the success of the social conservatives. The libertinism that some libertarians ostentatiously embrace provides the growth in the administrative entitlements state with its impetus. If to be a libertarian is to favor political liberty, then libertarians must embrace social conservatism. If to be a libertarian is to embrace sex, drugs, and rock and roll, then libertarians are the proponents -- whether witting or not -- of the soft despotism that threatens to engulf us.

Yep, everyone's vote is equal, the more social liberal we become, the larger and more powerful that government becomes, and the larger that voting bloc becomes.

Social liberals don't vote for the greater good, for a distant future that won't happen until they are dead, they vote for what they can take, today, now, and the more broken and weak they become, then the greater their wants, and greed.

16 posted on 12/03/2012 6:57:41 PM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer's successful run in Nebraska)
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To: ansel12
Social liberals don't vote for the greater good, for a distant future that won't happen until they are dead, they vote for what they can take, today, now, and the more broken and weak they become, then the greater their wants, and greed.

Shameless vanity PLUG:

Igg, Ogg, and Uggs: A Caveman's Introduction to Entitlements, or, The Tragedy of The Commoners

(Vanity) Demographics Are Not Destiny, or, It's Just How We Roll

(Vanity) Demographics Are Not Destiny, Part II: The Wages of Sin is Debt, or, The Horny of Plenty

Cheers!

17 posted on 12/03/2012 7:11:32 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: grey_whiskers
Just read it. I disagree with very little. He didn't mention voter fraud, without which I don't think 0moslem would have won. Second, the mercantilism of Great Britain had many warts, but that's minor to his main points. I like this paragraph (among others):

There are many reasons why Mitt Romney lost in 2012. Some, as I suggested in an earlier post, were his fault. Some of them were not. One of the latter is that the demographic deck was stacked against him in a fashion that it was not stacked against Ronald Reagan in 2008. If we do not find a way to reverse the sexual revolution, we are doomed. The future of liberty is contingent on the success of the social conservatives. The libertinism that some libertarians ostentatiously embrace provides the growth in the administrative entitlements state with its impetus. If to be a libertarian is to favor political liberty, then libertarians must embrace social conservatism. If to be a libertarian is to embrace sex, drugs, and rock and roll, then libertarians are the proponents -- whether witting or not -- of the soft despotism that threatens to engulf us.

I don't think it's so soft, and it will get harder.

18 posted on 12/03/2012 7:11:47 PM PST by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: little jeremiah
I don't think it's so soft, and it will get harder.

Given Rahe's central contention, that was an...interesting choice of words.

Cheers!

19 posted on 12/03/2012 7:13:12 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Chuckster

And did Mom punish you if you lied, stole, or (God forbid), diddled your sister? If so, she was “legisltating morality”.

Sorry to be crude, but the mindless slogan “you can’t legislate morality” is meaningless Beavis and Butthead drivel. You can’t force bad men to be good via laws, but you can punish bad actions (aka “immoral actions”) and make such acts socially unacceptable and thereby curbed.

As a father of someone I knew said “locks keep honest men honest”.


20 posted on 12/03/2012 7:22:37 PM PST by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: Cicero
It's bloody difficult when social conservative small 'l' libertarians are hammered by the very people they would work with as wackos and 'paultards' and resoundingly decried for pointing out such simple facts as there is nothing in the US Constitution that provides for regulating anything (including food) that an adult willingly consumes, nor the building of ANY nation--except fostering an environment where we can build our own.

Geeez, that kind of talk will have one decried as a drug addled code pinko moral degenerate in a Noo Yawk second.

Without adherence--strict adherence--to original intent, the public coffers are laid bare, the door to despotism is flung wide, and Liberty is in chains.

That Liberty, I will say again, is not the freedom from responsibility, but the freedom to be responsible.

When I choose to give to the poor, that is charity, when the government takes from me at gunpoint and gives to the poor, that is coercion. Coercion and Christian charity cannot coexist, because charity is freely deciding to give.

The Almighty gave mankind free choice, the freedom to decide whether we, as individuals, would serve Him. Excessive government removes that choice.

21 posted on 12/03/2012 7:24:10 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: grey_whiskers

All these arguments about “demographics” is a construct by the left to furthur advance their policies. Proof of that pudding of puke is the eagerness of the media to latch on to it and promote that concept to the general public. In a serious effort to disuade the argument and they are doing a good job..

Romney violated the first articles of campaigning. Policies affecting “Bread and Butter issues”
Why We Lost http://www.theusmat.com/


22 posted on 12/03/2012 7:31:49 PM PST by mosesdapoet ("A voice crying in the wilderness make streight for the way of the Lord")
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To: ansel12
Laws are about legislating morality, whether in the tax code, or murder, a society figures out what they consider moral, and then make it law.

Let me note that laws against fornication and sodomy existed in virtually every state.

That didn't stop either from happening.

The repeal of those laws, where that has occurred, is a response to society's demands, and not any moral code (rather the lack thereof).

If a law was effective at regulating behaviour, there would be no crime. Instead, people do what they will do, the laws make sure they conceal the results as best they can from society as a whole, and morality suffers because the clear disadvantages of such behaviour become muddled in crusades over laws instead of the behaviour itself and the results of the behaviour.

23 posted on 12/03/2012 7:36:32 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Revolting cat!; grey_whiskers
After spending 7 full years arguing vigorously against Romney's electability, the GOP-e, and their cadre of former Democrat funding partners forced his candidacy ~ and, as I'd pointed out so many thousands of times, he proceeded to lose.

I doubt the GOP-e crowd, and their friends, are educable. We must purge them from the party immediately.

24 posted on 12/03/2012 7:36:40 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: grey_whiskers

I assume he meant “soft” because hedonism appears to be soft and comfy but is in truth a prison?


25 posted on 12/03/2012 7:42:26 PM PST by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: Smokin' Joe

LOL, no law has ever totally prevented any action, there are laws against slitting the throats of children, but it happens.

If laws don’t affect behavior then why are any of us complaining about tax laws?

Where do you guys get this stuff?


26 posted on 12/03/2012 7:59:40 PM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer's successful run in Nebraska)
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To: ansel12
If laws don’t affect behavior then why are any of us complaining about tax laws?

Because those of us who the tax laws affect decry giving the Government more authority to take everything we have at gunpoint for not obeying the law.

Those laws only provide the government the authority to take more of what we have--or all of it. They don't attempt to regulate our moral behaviour so much as set the stage for wholesale larceny--and it is guaranteed people will find a way to evade the spirit of that law while complying with the letter of it if possible.

27 posted on 12/03/2012 8:17:59 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: ClearCase_guy

I believe it was former Governor Scranton of PA who came up with the notion of being a “fiscal conservative”, a “social liberal”, and “moderate” on most other things. Didn’t work too much for him, as he only ran for governor one and then talked about a presidential convention bid that went flat. Doesn’t he now live in FL, like so many other former PA liberal people?


28 posted on 12/03/2012 8:19:00 PM PST by Theodore R. ("Hey, the American people must all be crazy out there!")
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To: thecodont
“The deepest source of our present discontents is the sexual revolution. Our abandonment of chastity as a norm has had dire political consequences.”

THAT'S a platform guaranteed to win elections!

Not.

29 posted on 12/03/2012 8:19:42 PM PST by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: Lurking Libertarian
The population has to be converted first.

Cheers!

30 posted on 12/03/2012 8:22:44 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Smokin' Joe
"If a law was effective at regulating behaviour, there would be no crime. Instead, people do what they will do"

Just ignore the laws you don't like, according to you they don't mean anything anyway, and can't change what people want to do.

31 posted on 12/03/2012 8:23:19 PM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer's successful run in Nebraska)
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To: muawiyah

I believe Romney thought he was winning and falsely believed that he should “be nice” so as not to annoy liberal women in the suburbs who were pre-committed to Obama. Tom Dewey similarly was so sure he would win that he spent the last two weeks of the 1948 campaign planning Cabinet appointments. But I think Dewey won his native MI, unlike Romney. And he won NY in 1948, unlike Romney’s not even bothering to contest MA in 2012.


32 posted on 12/03/2012 8:23:19 PM PST by Theodore R. ("Hey, the American people must all be crazy out there!")
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To: Lurking Libertarian

You may be too young to remember how the left went to war against American culture, society, and families, it was and is brutal, the cultural/libertarian left leads, and then the people catch up to what they are brainwashed with and saturated with in media and schools.

This new America did not bubble up from the people, it was created by the libertarian elites and imposed on the people.


33 posted on 12/03/2012 8:28:51 PM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer's successful run in Nebraska)
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To: ansel12
Why do you decry the ability of people to live moral lives without an obfusticating web of legislation? People lived moral lives long before parts of what is now the US were covered by the colonist's laws. Others who lived within that legislative penumbra ignored those same laws.

The vast majority of laws have nothing to do with morality, anyway, they only exist to exert control after the fact.

Cut down a tree in some places without a permit? Is that immoral if it is your property, and your tree? It is illegal in some places, though, no matter if the tree threatens to destroy your home.

Is it immoral to wire your own security light on the front of your barn? In many places it is illegal. You can be punished for doing something which is morally neutral, because there is a law!

Granted not all can, not all desire to live morally, and many will not live a moral life, even with legislation to that effect.

Fear of the law will restrain a few, but Fear of God or even just the natural repercussions of their actions will restrain more, if they are so inclined.

You continually confuse small 'l' libertarian with Libertine, and they two are not the same.

Moral does not equal Legal, either, otherwise we would not have legal decisions like Kelo or Roe.

34 posted on 12/03/2012 8:47:52 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: ansel12
the cultural/libertarian left leads, and then the people catch up to what they are brainwashed with and saturated with in media and schools.

The left is not, nor has it ever been libertarian (the antithesis of totalitarianism), it is Libertine, insofar as that provides the cultural destabilization necessary for it to achieve its totalitarian goals. Hiding totalitarianism behind a cloak of 'morality', won't pass muster, either (we looked at the man behind the curtain).

Not having laws won't have much of an effect on a stable and moral culture.

Big difference between libertarian and Libertine, but others in this forum have pointed that out to you. Your willfully ignoring the facts tells me I'm wasting keystrokes here, and that the GOP, if you are typical, is a waste of time, too.

I will retain my Conservative values, social and fiscal, and y'all continue your slide to the left. Maybe that'll win another election someday.

35 posted on 12/03/2012 8:59:59 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: grey_whiskers

Thanks for the ping!


36 posted on 12/03/2012 9:08:46 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Smokin' Joe

America can live without fulfilling the dreams of libertarians for “gay marriage” and late term abortion and polygamy.


37 posted on 12/03/2012 9:14:40 PM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer's successful run in Nebraska)
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To: ansel12
Once again, you confuse Libertines with libertarians.

I think you are brain damaged. You'd better get that checked.

38 posted on 12/03/2012 9:17:07 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Smokin' Joe
The left is not, nor has it ever been libertarian

Sixty years of libertarian/leftwing victories against America say differently, even the libertarian party says differently in their party platform.

Here is the leftists agenda hidden behind the Libertarian Party curtain.

Libertarian Party Platform:

Throw open the borders completely; only a rare individual (terrorist, disease carrier etc.) can be kept from freedom of movement through “political boundaries”.

Homosexuals; total freedom in the military, gay marriage, adoption, child custody and everything else.

Abortion; zero restrictions or impediments.

Pornography; no restraint, no restrictions.

Drugs; Meth, Heroin, Crack, and anything new that science can come up with, zero restrictions.

Advertising those drugs, prostitution, and pornography; zero restrictions.

Military Strength; minimal capabilities.

39 posted on 12/03/2012 9:19:22 PM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer's successful run in Nebraska)
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To: ansel12

Yep.

Wrong on every issue. and make no mistake, when they say “no restrictions” they also mean age.


40 posted on 12/03/2012 9:23:11 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: ansel12
One last time:

LIBERTINE: Anything goes (and the word you would be looking for if you would look).

Libertarian: one who believes the government which governs best governs least.

Have a nice day!

At this point your raving stupidity becomes just that.

At times I wonder if you are a DU'er over here trying to make sure a Republican never gets elected again by alienating what could be a growing part of the GOP vote. Don't forget to shine your jackboots.

41 posted on 12/03/2012 9:24:37 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Smokin' Joe

You can whine all you want, but libertarians are far lefties on many issues, that is why you attract so many people like Bill Maher and Noam Chomsky.

This is the party platform, and you just cannot say that all lefties drool at this platform.

Throw open the borders completely; only a rare individual (terrorist, disease carrier etc.) can be kept from freedom of movement through “political boundaries”.

Homosexuals; total freedom in the military, gay marriage, adoption, child custody and everything else.

Abortion; zero restrictions or impediments.

Pornography; no restraint, no restrictions.

Drugs; Meth, Heroin, Crack, and anything new that science can come up with, zero restrictions.

Advertising those drugs, prostitution, and pornography; zero restrictions.


42 posted on 12/03/2012 9:30:26 PM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer's successful run in Nebraska)
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To: ansel12
You apparently deny the presence of moral libertarians, while confusing that with the Libertarian Party (note capital 'L').

I am socially Conservative, Christian, Fiscally conservative, and I don't need man's law to live a moral life.

I have God's Law, and that is sufficient.

Man's law would tell me it is okay to covet and take my neighbor's property, to slaughter babies in their mothers' wombs, in some jurisdictions for a man to lay with a man as with a woman and call it "marriage", but not okay to pray in public, acknowledging the gifts of Our Creator.

Keep your lawbooks.

Keep in mind that people who hijacked the democrat party and the word 'liberal' (Thomas Jefferson was a liberal, in the classical sense), are doing all they can to split the Right into fragments, and it is useful idiots like you who will make them successful.

43 posted on 12/03/2012 9:49:21 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Smokin' Joe

Sorry, but you can’t just make things up. Libertarianism is a way that people who like conservative economics but like the left’s stand on social issues and the military to find a niche for themselves.

Libertarians are at war with true conservatism.


44 posted on 12/03/2012 9:57:40 PM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer's successful run in Nebraska)
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To: ansel12
LOL!

You have confused the Communist influences of the 1960 with libertarianism.

You have attributed everything from sodomy to abortion to methamphetamine to people who only want a less totalitarian government, all the while failing to give the credit to the people who deserve it: the New Left--the same Communist movements which sought in their enumerated goals to promote moral degeneracy, who decried McCarthy as a "witch-hunter", and who absconded with the media while people like you were howling over how many life sentences a pot smoker should serve for possession of a joint (something which wasn't even illegal 50 years earlier).

Even as the walls close in, you refuse to admit that the law has become the problem, not the solution, and like the two-edged sword it is, it is being wielded against America and our Constitution--by BOTH sides of the political aisle.

We have the howling expenses of the War on Drugs and the War on Poverty, both depleting the treasury, but also providing the excuse to approve of entering and searching a premises, a person, their possessions, vehicle, and effects without a warrant.

Has drug use stopped? No. But our right to be secure in our person, property, papers and effects has.

Has child abuse stopped? No. Not only has it not, but now we subsidize (at gunpoint, taxman) the festering poverty ridden hellholes where it thrives.

How's that working out for you? Or are you so married to the Statist way that you can't see its failures?

Eisenhower had Operation Wetback to deal with the southern border, now our tax money goes to arm Mexican Drug Cartels, and when the lid is blown off that, not a peep form the alphabet press.

More laws? Like the ones which keep Arizona from patrolling its own international border?

We have ample Oil and Gas resources, not to mention coal, but our own government won't let much of that even be explored, yet we spend trillions in treasure and thousands of lives 'nation building' our enemies (and they will be the second we pull out--some are now) and our own borders aren't secure from invasion--and then don't even get their oil and gas in repayment.

How is that, by what insane stretch is that "providing for the common defense"? --all the while decisions are made to abandon our people in harm's way--at the highest levels.

If you are a Conservative, tell me where is the Constitutional authorization to go abroad and 'build nations'?

Where is the Constitutional authorization to regulate what an adult willingly consumes?

Where is the Constitutional authorization for the EPA?

Where is the Constitutional authorization for the expenditure of public money to provide for the murder of the unborn? for that matter, for hurricane relief?

It isn't there.

As a libertarian, Constitutionalist, Conservative, a Christian, I can be opposed to the concept of forcibly taking money from me to fund anything that is not authorized in the agreement to have a Federal Government. As a Christian, I am especially opposed to abortion.

And just so you know, I do not believe in using recreational drugs--I don't even drink alcohol. The destructive effects of these have been manifest in those I know and have known (many of whom are dead) who have.

I am opposed to homosexuality, especially the push to 'normalize' it, and the teaching of it in schools as "normal".

I am a Social Conservative.

I also believe there are far too many laws, covering far too many topics, which are primarily there to serve the joint purpose of providing 'work' for Federal Employees and providing snares which defy moral or common sense with which to entrap the unwary population or cow them into attempting nothing.

This country is just beginning to feel the effects of that as we raise children who have little incentive to explore, start a business, learn, or excel.

It will get worse, and you can thank too much government for that.

45 posted on 12/03/2012 11:12:51 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Smokin' Joe

oh no, kids are definitely given the incentive to explore... each other

ugh


46 posted on 12/03/2012 11:23:41 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: GeronL
Unfortunately, you are correct.

It's sad. We always wanted to know what was over the next hill, around the next bend in the creek, and were encouraged to go find out. We had our 'fat' kids, but even they were in good enough shape to keep up, and most were well within an acceptable body weight.

Of my 'peer' group, there arose a USMC Sgt Maj, a Navy SEAL, a Geologist, a Construction company owner, a farmer, and others who were equally successful in life. We had too much on the ball to be distracted by drugs, even though they were out there. Some of us even drank for a while and gave it up--jut no satisfaction in that.

No hippies, no queers, no Liberals, and we did it with a fraction of the rules we have today. Imagine that.

47 posted on 12/03/2012 11:41:45 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Smokin' Joe

The libertarian agenda is taken from their platform and posted in post 39.

It is an absolute dream agenda for a leftist and one that they have largely succeeded in imposing over the large 50 years, immigration is a powerful tool of the leftists.

Here is the ACTUAL, WORD FOR WORD language of libertarians on immigration.

COMPLETE PLATFORM TEXT
INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS AND CIVIL ORDER

IMMIGRATION:
“”The Issue: We welcome all refugees to our country and condemn the efforts of U.S. officials to create a new “Berlin Wall” which would keep them captive. We condemn the U.S. government’s policy of barring those refugees from our country and preventing Americans from assisting their passage to help them escape tyranny or improve their economic prospects.

The Principle: We hold that human rights should not be denied or abridged on the basis of nationality. Undocumented non-citizens should not be denied the fundamental freedom to labor and to move about unmolested. Furthermore, immigration must not be restricted for reasons of race, religion, political creed, age or sexual preference. We oppose government welfare and resettlement payments to non-citizens just as we oppose government welfare payments to all other persons.

Solutions: We condemn massive roundups of Hispanic Americans and others by the federal government in its hunt for individuals not possessing required government documents. We strongly oppose all measures that punish employers who hire undocumented workers. Such measures repress free enterprise, harass workers, and systematically discourage employers from hiring Hispanics.

Transitional Action: We call for the elimination of all restrictions on immigration, the abolition of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the Border Patrol, and a declaration of full amnesty for all people who have entered the country illegally.””


48 posted on 12/03/2012 11:45:58 PM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer's successful run in Nebraska)
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To: ansel12
Yawn. Those are Libertarians, not libertarians. The forms are case sensitive and have different meaning.

Look at the "Libertarian Party Platform" and compare it to this:

CURRENT COMMUNIST GOALS

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

Now, I present the whole list so I can't be accused of picking and choosing, but I didn't put the things you attribute to libertarians (note the lower case 'l'--it matters) in red, just so they'd stand out for you.

The same people are backing that agenda who were backing it before, and they have called themselves Libertarian, or at least some of them have. As you look down that list, you will find that much of that (the list is from 1963) has been done.

It wasn't done by libertarians, or even Libertarians, it was done by Democrats and Republicans who marched to the wrong drummer. The social conservative/fiscal conservative/small 'l' libertarians (as opposed to the Libertarians) would not have gone for that, often pushed third party candidates or voted GOP, and most of us fought against it.

But if you don't want the help of those who have been aware of and fought this gradual takeover (and so much more ) of the US, well, I guess that's because most of your totalitarian goals have been reached.

We have people to grope us in airports, we can be stopped and searched at any highway checkpoint, our homes can be invaded without a warrant, our finances and communications be scrutinized, and we're just a RCH away from being dragged off in the middle of the night--already authorized by the Defense Act.

I'll continue to stand where I do. Less government is better. It's cheaper, it is less totalitarian, it is more moral, if for no other reason than the opportunities for corruption and larceny are fewer and smaller. YMMV

49 posted on 12/04/2012 1:36:53 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Smokin' Joe

You ramble on, but you cannot ignore how radically left wing libertarians are in so many areas and are part of the left’s fight against conservatism.

COMPLETE PLATFORM TEXT
INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS AND CIVIL ORDER

IMMIGRATION:
“”The Issue: We welcome all refugees to our country and condemn the efforts of U.S. officials to create a new “Berlin Wall” which would keep them captive. We condemn the U.S. government’s policy of barring those refugees from our country and preventing Americans from assisting their passage to help them escape tyranny or improve their economic prospects.

The Principle: We hold that human rights should not be denied or abridged on the basis of nationality. Undocumented non-citizens should not be denied the fundamental freedom to labor and to move about unmolested. Furthermore, immigration must not be restricted for reasons of race, religion, political creed, age or sexual preference. We oppose government welfare and resettlement payments to non-citizens just as we oppose government welfare payments to all other persons.

Solutions: We condemn massive roundups of Hispanic Americans and others by the federal government in its hunt for individuals not possessing required government documents. We strongly oppose all measures that punish employers who hire undocumented workers. Such measures repress free enterprise, harass workers, and systematically discourage employers from hiring Hispanics.

Transitional Action: We call for the elimination of all restrictions on immigration, the abolition of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the Border Patrol, and a declaration of full amnesty for all people who have entered the country illegally.””


50 posted on 12/04/2012 10:56:21 AM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer's successful run in Nebraska)
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