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Questions Before Secession
The Hot Gates 480BC ^ | 11/15/12 | Pleistarchos

Posted on 11/17/2012 4:04:39 PM PST by Pleistarchos

The thought of a split of the American Republic is not an easy pill to swallow. We have come to assume that the United States in which most of us were born, raised, learned about in school and from books, movies, patriotic holidays, etc., was began in 1776 and that it would still be around long after we are gone.

I have been torn over this since the mid-90's. Like many people, I had taken it for granted that, as a result of the collapse of the USSR and its client-states, Marxist-inspired college professors would either see the light or be so utterly discredited as to become laughing stocks of the young people who sat in the lecture halls.

What I found during the 90's was that the Western variant of Marxism had the ability to, like a bacterium that had squeaked by courses of a particular antibiotic enough times, develop resistance against what would easily kill it off in the past.

Gone (For the most part) were the calls for the people to seize the means of production. The Cultural Marxism promulgated by Georg Lukaks and Antonio Gramsci then gained ascendancy . The latter was nothing new, it was similarly a more stealthy means by which the people of the West could be softened up for the supposed inevitable onset of Marxism and the corresponding end of sovereign states.....


TOPICS: Government; History; Politics; Society
KEYWORDS: bluestatesecession; modernsecssion; redstatesecession

1 posted on 11/17/2012 4:04:41 PM PST by Pleistarchos
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To: Pleistarchos

We were a collection of States before we were a (federalized) country.


2 posted on 11/17/2012 4:18:16 PM PST by Amberdawn
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To: Pleistarchos

If this ever is about to happen i’ll be damn sure to get the heck out of MA as quick as i can (I should anyways) and get my butt down to Texas before they close up the border down there.


3 posted on 11/17/2012 4:23:59 PM PST by mowowie
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To: Pleistarchos
Will the Federal Government stop at the $200,000+ amount of debt that every American newborn is currently allotted by having been born?

I believe that this is a key point. The politicians may not stop but arithmetic will stop it. A lot of people understand cognitively that this debt can't continue but few really understand it, feel it deep down and really believe it, yet. That's because the Social Security checks keep coming, the Medicare payments keep getting paid, the food stamps continue, etc. When they stop or begin to slow at a serious pace, then people will start to get it. How that snowball rolls remains to be seen but it will roll.

4 posted on 11/17/2012 4:29:34 PM PST by MulberryDraw (That which cannot be paid, won't be paid.)
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To: Pleistarchos

What would be better is kick out the libtards and we keep it all, minus a state or three.


5 posted on 11/17/2012 4:50:39 PM PST by Nowhere Man (Obama voters have cooties.)
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To: Pleistarchos
It's Time to Part Company
6 posted on 11/17/2012 5:00:19 PM PST by B.O. Plenty (Give war a chance.....)
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To: MulberryDraw

Employers who can not allow their workforce to slip below 30 hrs a week, they will make their employee’s become 1099 folks, private contractors. As a private contractor, they will be liable for their own taxes, health insurance, ssi, etc. I think this is where we are headed, and this may be the spark.
Wishful thinking, perhaps.......


7 posted on 11/17/2012 5:01:01 PM PST by GrouchoTex (...and ye shall know the Truth and the Truth shall set you free....)
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To: Nowhere Man

Places I could live without: New York City, Boston (okay, all of Mass.), Detroit, Chicago, Seattle, SF & LA. If these cesspools of urban corruption were independent or a part of Canada we could live with the rest of the liberal/socialist states and cities such as Vermont, South Florida, Rhode Island and Minnesota.


8 posted on 11/17/2012 5:06:26 PM PST by Oklahoma
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To: Pleistarchos

I can see the benefits of having a republic 200 years ago. Cross-border laws similar, commerce governed in a standardized manner, plenty of foreign enemies just hundreds of miles away.

But today, what’s the use of a republic? There’s little to be gained by ganging together, in fact, there is more to lose in the way of taxes and regulations.


9 posted on 11/17/2012 5:06:39 PM PST by gotribe
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To: Pleistarchos
Secession of a number of states would allow them to form a military alliance for the purpose of destroying Communism.

After tagging Cuba "out" the next stop would be Massachusetts ~

I don't think the Leftwingtards in this country realize the mortal danger they are in from any nation with a technology equal to our own, with political will, to be in close proximity!

10 posted on 11/17/2012 5:11:22 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: gotribe
212 years ago (that's 1800) the nearest foreign country was Spain, butt up against the US and owning the Mississippi ~

Although the NE US objected to it, we ended up allied to France and that ended the Spanish threat when he took Spain's Louisiana Territory, and the Mississippi, and sold it to us!

The current secession talk involves mostly trans Mississippi states ~ and although the NE continues to think there's nothing there worth fighting for, they are as mistaken now as they were then

11 posted on 11/17/2012 5:16:04 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Pleistarchos

Some form of breakdown of the country is inevitable now. The most likely progression is secession of Texas as the first event. For reason and analysis, including to answers to objections, see my blog

http://freetexasconstitution.wordpress.com/

Secession is necessary if only for defensive reasons. It is either certainty of collapse by staying in the U.S. or probable economic boom (at least on a relative basis) by Secesssion.


12 posted on 11/17/2012 5:29:10 PM PST by grumpa
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To: mowowie

Good point, In my earlier posts on the subject I had noted that this is exactly what would happen. I for one, from New Jersey, would have to relocate, while Progressives from the free nation could move to my former State.

http://thehotgates480bc.blogspot.com/2012/11/in-consideration-of-secession-part-i.html

http://thehotgates480bc.blogspot.com/2012/11/in-consideration-of-secession-part-ii.html


13 posted on 11/17/2012 5:32:24 PM PST by Pleistarchos
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To: grumpa

Interested in taking my bet that Texas will vote blue in a POTUS election before “secession” happens?

I’m willing to wager a Social Security check electronically signed by Baraq Hussein Obama...


14 posted on 11/17/2012 5:33:03 PM PST by nascarnation (Baraq's bankruptcy: 2016)
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15 posted on 11/17/2012 5:34:33 PM PST by RedMDer (May we always be happy and may our enemies always know it. - Sarah Palin, 10-18-2010)
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To: Pleistarchos

The USSR was a bunch of small State before they were forced into being part of the USSR. We have the Southern states that were forced back into the USA. Hate to say, but there are similarities.


16 posted on 11/17/2012 6:37:01 PM PST by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off.)
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To: Pleistarchos
I think we should not call this a secession movement. The US, without 13 states, would be a perfectly governable and solidly conservative country, valuing a strong defense and economic and religious liberty and guarding traditional values.

My proposal: let's start an expulsion movement instead of a secession movement: expel California, Oregon, Washington, Hawaii in the west, and New York, New Jersey, Maryland, Delaware and all of New England except New Hampshire and we'd be left with a damn fine country. (I don't know what we'll do with NH there in the northeast; it's a little island of sanity in a deep blue sea of liberal fruit-loopery). There's not one conservative senator among the 26 representing those 13 states, unless I'm mistaken.

We could announce that the constitution of this reset USA would be the existing US constitution (although I'd like to repeal the 17th amendment and strongly rework the ninth and tenth to strengthen limits on the power of the general government). The newly consituted Supreme Court would be charged, in the implementation language, with spending it's first few terms reconsidering the constitutionality of every enactment of the original US since the thirties in light of the newly strengthened ninth and tenth amendments.

The Heartland of this country has always suffered under the bootheels of our bicoastal elite, and been misgoverned by mostly graduates of elite schools in the northeast. Time to cast them away. While we're at it we may also want to make overtures to some of our good neighbors in certain Canadian provinces which have often chafed under roughshod rule by the elites in Ontario and Quebec. (From time to time I've heard rumblings of Canadian separatist movements in the western provinces.) So we could be both expansionist as well as expulsionist.

Imagine a new, "Can-Am" federation stretching from Alaska to Florida - including the Yukon, the Northwest Territories, Nunavut, British Columbia, Alberta, Sasketchawn and Manitoba - and encompassing all the American heartland, the mountain states, old Dixie, the Great Lakes States and Pennsylvania (but not NY). Ontario, Quebec and the Maritime Provinces would probably feel compelled to eventually merge with the now-rump remainder of the old US, with which they have more in common than with the rest of Canada in any event.

Anyway, it's fun to move pieces around on the map. Where do I sign on for the revolution?

17 posted on 11/17/2012 6:44:46 PM PST by Spartan79 (I view great cities as pestilential to the morals, the health, and the liberties of man.)
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To: Pleistarchos

I as born and raised in the United States ...

unfortunately, this ain’t it


18 posted on 11/17/2012 7:16:40 PM PST by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: Spartan79

An interesting thought exercise, in any case.

Thank you.


19 posted on 11/17/2012 7:19:21 PM PST by txnativegop (Fed up with zealots)
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To: Spartan79

“Anyway, it’s fun to move pieces around on the map.”

My thoughts on the same subject here:
http://freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2959153/posts?page=51#51


20 posted on 11/17/2012 7:43:31 PM PST by Road Glide
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To: Pleistarchos

Here’s a thought. I’ve found that liberals will move from areas they have destroyed through high taxes and regulation etc... to other areas of their state that are more conservative b/c taxes are lower and there’s less regulations. Unfortunately, they take their politics with them, run for office, and eventually destroy that area of the state too. We’ve seen this with liberals who move out of blue states to formerly red states and turn them purple...like Nevada and Colorado. What’s to stop liberals from moving into states that would secede and eventually destroy those areas as well?


21 posted on 11/17/2012 8:27:58 PM PST by paltz
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To: Pleistarchos

I live in Sarasota, Florida and yearn for a more conservative place. If a split happens, I’m outta here and headed to (hopefully) Texas although I’d prefer a state which has a National League MLB team. I have to stay with the humidity and the Gulf!


22 posted on 11/17/2012 8:50:17 PM PST by Rembrandt (Part of the 51% who pay Federal taxes)
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To: Pleistarchos

Blast from the past. “Russian Professor Predicts Fall of U.S.”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2155962/posts


23 posted on 11/17/2012 8:55:03 PM PST by enduserindy (Conservative Dead Head)
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To: Pleistarchos

I was wondering, if the national debt was canceled today, who all would suffer the loss?


24 posted on 11/17/2012 9:59:04 PM PST by Bellflower (The LORD is Holy, separated from all sin, perfect, righteous, high and lifted up.)
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To: Oklahoma

you left off Philadelphia.

Probably most major cities should be left off.


25 posted on 11/18/2012 3:23:44 AM PST by dglang
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To: Pleistarchos
...I had taken it for granted that, as a result of the collapse of the USSR and its client-states, Marxist-inspired college professors would either see the light or be so utterly discredited as to become laughing stocks of the young people who sat in the lecture halls.

No, they still insist that it hasn't been tried by the right people yet, and of course they believe that THEY and the REGIME are the right people.

26 posted on 11/18/2012 9:58:50 AM PST by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed &water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: paltz

Actually you brought up a very good point. I have considered that very question from the beginning, but have not come up with an answer that satisfies me. My idea is that there will be residency and requirements, including passports and visas, which satisfies the problem a bit. The hairy part is the period just prior to the movement becoming a done deal. In that case, the Libs could embark on a land rush in the not-yet ruined states. That will have to be taken into consideration early on so that steps can be taken to prevent such a disaster.


27 posted on 11/18/2012 3:03:04 PM PST by Pleistarchos
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bump


28 posted on 11/18/2012 7:30:12 PM PST by foreverfree
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