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The Case for SWAT Teams (Mend them, don't end them.)
Pajamas Media ^ | June 8, 2011 | Mike McDaniel

Posted on 06/09/2011 10:11:36 AM PDT by Kaslin

It’s a difficult time to defend SWAT teams. On May 5, 2011, during the morning hours, a Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) team of the Pima County Sheriff’s Department (Tucson, AZ) raided the home of Jose Guerena, his wife Vanessa, and their four-year-old son. Guerena, 26, a Marine veteran of two combat tours, worked in a nearby copper mine. Vanessa, seeing armed men in their yard, warned Jose, who sent her and their son to hide in a closet. Taking up his AR-15 rifle, Jose waited in a hallway, ready to defend his family. Within minutes, despite never taking his rifle off safe and never firing a shot, he would die in a fusillade of 71 bullets. The police would not allow medical personnel to tend to him for one hour and fourteen minutes. By then, he was long dead.

The Guerena raid was one of four conducted in the same general area that morning, in response to a drug investigation, which apparently somehow involved Guerena’s younger brother. While the police have labored mightily to implicate Guerena in the drug trade — they breathlessly publicized the discovery of a Border Patrol baseball cap and a bullet resistant vest — they found not so much as a single marijuana seed or any other real indicators of drug involvement in his home.

I posted a tactical analysis of the police raid on May 28 on the Confederate Yankee website, where I co-blog with Bob Owens, whose PJM story on May 25 generated considerable public interest in the case. That analysis was based on currently available information in the public domain and on the 54 second video of the raid released by the Pima Co. SD. The SWAT action on that May morning will surely be used in future textbooks as an example of how not to conduct SWAT operations. So disorganized were the police, so uncoordinated were their tactics that they can scarcely be called tactics. Their uncontrolled, panicky barrage of fire — 22 out of 71 rounds fired hit Guerena and they hit at least one other home in the area — and their circle-the-wagons non-response to the aftermath of their raid raise many questions, not only about that particular incident, but about the wisdom and utility of having SWAT teams in general. How should we respond?

Over the last three decades, SWAT teams have become more and more common in law enforcement organizations (LEOs), large and small, across the nation. In many cases, teams are established to meet real or perceived needs. In some, they are a matter of institutional prestige, a sort of law enforcement “keeping-up-with-the-Joneses.” This trend has, unfortunately, sometimes produced teams in search of missions rather than teams who respond to a predictable number of legitimate missions.

It has also diverted attention away from the original, valid purpose of SWAT teams. They exist because day-to-day patrol forces are generally not prepared, in training, experience, or equipment, to deal with more complex tactical situations. The classic SWAT callout is a barricaded hostage taker who will usually be talked out by a skilled negotiator without a shot being fired. The most likely alternative is ending the situation by means of a single shot fired by a police marksman. A less common alternative is a “dynamic entry” by a heavily armed and armored entry team. In such cases, the likelihood of suspects or police officers being injured or killed is dramatically increased. The real problem is that such tactics also greatly increase the probability of innocents being injured or killed. The Cato Institute has published a map — available here — that illustrates the problem.

Should SWAT teams exist? The answer is a carefully qualified yes. There are indeed situations that require equipment, knowledge, training, and abilities that a patrol force simply does not have. Throwing unprepared, untrained officers into such situations virtually guarantees that they — and others — will be unnecessarily injured or killed. Police supervisors and administrators must be experienced and smart enough to know what they can’t handle the situation and when they must back away rather than charging blindly ahead. They must resist the often overpowering police tendency to “do something,” regardless of the potential consequences.

The same is true for SWAT teams. A poorly chosen, poorly trained, and underequipped SWAT team is in many ways even more dangerous than patrol officers who have gotten in over their heads. SWAT teams will commonly be used in situations that are even more inherently dangerous than those faced by cops out of their depth — situations that require a very high level of training and skill.

SWAT teams present many problems for police administrators. They are, particularly for smaller police departments, very expensive, not only in terms of dollar outlay for necessary equipment, which can easily exceed $10,000 per operator, but in terms of consumables, such as ammunition, and man-hour replacement. Training costs are also very high, and often continually incurred.

To learn and maintain necessary skills, SWAT teams must routinely practice together. Forming a team from the ranks of a single LEO usually requires assigning officers from most bureaus; several detectives, several supervisors, patrol officers, etc. When the team trains, those officers aren’t available for their regular duties, and many have to be replaced, often by calling in other officers at overtime rates to work extra shifts. This not only strains already tight manpower budgets, but contributes to illness and stress among those who have to fill in and, as a result, lose sleep and time with their families.

Few LEOs have in their ranks officers with the experience and knowledge necessary to properly train a SWAT team, which includes not only the function of the entire team, but the specialized individual skills necessary for each operator. This means that outside instructors must either be brought in, often, to instruct the team, or that the entire team must be sent to facilities where instruction can be obtained. In either case, this is a very expensive proposition — again, not only for the high dollar costs involved, but the time that officers will be away from their duties. There are some federal agencies who offer such training on-site at low or no cost, but even without a large cash outlay, substantial other costs are involved, and such trainers cannot return over and over again as often as necessary to ensure proper continuing proficiency.

One of the largest expenses is ammunition. A thousand rounds of .223 rifle ammunition commonly costs, even with police discount pricing, $300 or more, and handgun ammunition is only slightly less expensive. Match quality rifle ammunition for marksmen is amazingly expensive. The problem is that a properly trained and maintained SWAT team can — and should — go through far more ammunition than the rest of the LEO combined. A 100 man LEO might shoot 5,000 rounds a year in qualifying its officers. A 20 man SWAT team can easily shoot that much in a single day of training if for no other reason than that their minimum qualification standards must be much higher and more exacting than those required of a regular police force.

Why is all of this necessary? Because SWAT teams, if properly chosen and trained, are expected to be smarter, faster, stronger, and much more capable of exercising rapid and correct judgment under pressure than the average officer. They don’t exist to routinely produce overwhelming volumes of fire. They do not expect — or hope — to shoot someone whenever they are called out. In fact, real professionals consider having to shoot a failure. They know that sometimes they will have no choice. When they do have to use deadly force, they are expected to use it only when absolutely necessary, and with cool precision, absolute accuracy, and immediate effect. In a situation where an average officer might have no option but to shoot, a SWAT operator is expected to be able to take the extra fractions of a second necessary to consider other options before shooting. They are expected, through experience, planning, and superior execution, to turn every situation to their tactical advantage to absolutely minimize the danger to the public in any situation. Again, this is not always possible, but a properly trained SWAT team will experience far fewer such situations than an under-trained team, or a patrol force. The best and most dangerous — to the bad guys — SWAT weapon is always the flexible brains of the operators.

And therein is another significant problem. SWAT teams are prestige builders for a LEO, not only for the administrators, but for officers. In police work, the only way to significantly increase one’s income and prestige is to gain rank, to more and more move away from actual police work into supervision and administration.

There are several alternate routes to prestige and somewhat greater pay, such as becoming a detective, but SWAT assignment is an enormous and shiny prestige badge — even if there is no additional stipend, which is the case in many agencies. Well-meaning administrators, looking for ways to build and maintain morale, might consider establishing a SWAT team, often without truly considering the real costs. And once a team is established, properly trained or not, there is enormous institutional and political pressure to keep it and use it. Politicians who are funding a team may demand to know why it’s not being used more often without really understanding why such a team exists and under what circumstances it should be used.

One way to better manage costs is to establish multi-LEO teams, taking officers from each LEO. In the Guerena shooting, the team was apparently comprised of officers from four separate LEOs. This can reduce the overall costs to each agency, but usually causes many other problems. Who will command the team? Who will have the most prestigious assignments? Who will get the best equipment? How will the schedules of multiple LEOs be reconciled for training? Whose use of force policies and procedures will prevail? How will costs be split when lawsuits are filed? How will officers be chosen for the team? Who is responsible for discipline? These and many more issues can prevent a team from functioning properly and can even tear it apart.

It is in the use of such teams that the most daunting problems become obvious. SWAT teams are now routinely used to serve arrest and search warrants that would otherwise be executed by a few detectives and patrol officers. Many LEOs see such situations as training opportunities, and justify the use of SWAT teams under the “we have them, so we might as well use them’’ rationale. In fact, if lives are at risk, it is certainly not training.

SWAT teams are properly employed in hostage situations, and to serve high-risk, no-knock warrants, as are sometimes necessary in high-level drug cases. Even then, careful planning and smart surveillance and execution can minimize risk. SWAT teams are also properly employed in such situations as terrorist attacks (whether by Islamists or disaffected Americans shooting up “soft targets” like schools). However, they are of far less utility in such situations than one might imagine. Many of the functions for which SWAT teams are commonly used can be done by other officers with upgraded training and equipment.

What’s the solution? Teams should be established only where there is a real and demonstrable need based on the criteria I’ve suggested. And when they are established, positions on the teams must be assigned on the basis of experience and ability, irrespective of day-to-day rank. One of the most common problems in the formation of SWAT teams is that officers with rank tend to be assigned leadership positions on the team while lower ranking officers are used only for lower-ranking SWAT duties. It is not uncommon, for instance, to find a former Army Special Forces troop, an expert in small unit tactics, manning the most remote post on a SWAT perimeter or making coffee and sandwich runs for an incident command post, while higher-ranking officers with no experience whatever run the show.

Another problem is that such higher-ranking officers often don’t know what they don’t know. Instead of assigning the smartest, most fit, self-motivated, detail-oriented, and capable officers to the team, they assign instead the most overtly aggressive, those they want to reward through enhanced prestige, or those who will not in any way challenge their authority or make them look bad by comparison. Few higher-ranking officers are secure enough, personally or professionally, to voluntarily place themselves under the command of a lower ranking, perhaps younger, officer on a SWAT team, which is, tragically, all too often just what they should do.

Most LEOs simply don’t have the volume of kinds of situations necessary to truly justify a SWAT team. The best alternative is enhanced equipment and training for regular officers. This will have the effect of significantly increasing the overall ability and effectiveness of the entire force, and will also tend to enhance the recruitment and retention of experienced and capable officers. By issuing each officer his own vehicle, a carbine (usually an AR-15 variant, which may simply be authorized for individual purchase), and his own portable radio and tactical headset, and by authorizing the individual purchase of related tactical gear, equipment issues can be addressed at greatly reduced cost. By integrating more advanced training into the usual training cycle, a LEO can produce greater officer interest and buy-in, and greatly enhanced ability at much less cost than trying to outfit and maintain a separate team. Buying and making available expensive body armor, helmets, gas guns, and stun grenades will also reduce costs. Local agencies will be able to handle all but the most severe and unusual situations — and when help is required, outside federal and state agencies can be called in.

The point of having a SWAT team, or of upgrading training and equipment for a regular patrol force, is not to give them more and more dangerous toys to use indiscriminately, but to give them necessary and enhanced capabilities which, because of their enhanced training and ability, they will be far less likely to improperly use when they are forced to use them at all.

But what about school shootings and similar situations? The reality is that unless a school or mall shooting turns into a Beslan-like assault that stretches over several days, by the time a SWAT team can be called out, assemble, plan, and assault, the situation will almost always have been long over. In virtually every school shooting incident in American history, the police have had little or no direct effect in lessening the damage or in stopping the shooter(s). Such shooters routinely take their own lives after shooting innocents, or are stopped by armed citizens on the scene. The latter is, of course, routinely downplayed or ignored by the Legacy Media.

This is where an upgraded patrol force can be particularly effective. Armed with more effective, longer-range weapons, and communications gear with which they are intimately familiar — and, of course, having been trained to deal with exactly this kind of situation — they can arrive on the scene, often within minutes, and immediately seek and stop a shooter. (In fact, many LEOs are now changing their response models to do just that, instead of standing around outside a school waiting for commanders and SWAT while a shooter is free to kill at will inside.)

In sum, SWAT teams do have their uses. They should not be established — or decommissioned — without good and sufficient cause. But they must not be used for routine law enforcement missions, missions where their presence, particularly if they are not properly trained and equipped, will increase rather than decrease the likelihood of injury or death. A poorly trained, led, and equipped team is more dangerous than no team at all. Upgrading training and equipment for an entire police force will have a great many benefits for the public. However, there is no substitute for experience, common sense, cool thinking under pressure, and effective supervision and leadership in any facet of police work. If he could, Jose Guerena would certainly agree.

Also read: Update on Stockton, CA ‘SWAT’ by Department of Education.


TOPICS: Government
KEYWORDS: banglist; donttreadonme; donutwatch; dynamicentry; govtabuse; guerena; jbt; militarizedpolice; noknockraids; paramilitarypolice; policestate; rapeofliberty; swat; swatabuse; tyranny

1 posted on 06/09/2011 10:11:39 AM PDT by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin

Saw on Drudge they used a swat to raid a guy over unpaid student loans.


2 posted on 06/09/2011 10:18:30 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Kaslin
Another problem is that such higher-ranking officers often don’t know what they don’t know. Instead of assigning the smartest, most fit, self-motivated, detail-oriented, and capable officers to the team, they assign instead the most overtly aggressive, those they want to reward through enhanced prestige, or those who will not in any way challenge their authority or make them look bad by comparison.

So they want non thinking gorillas, there's a shocker there....sarcasm intended

Link to another SWAT blunder, served a warrant issued by the Dept of Education over student loans. http://www.news10.net/news/article/141108/2/Questions-surround-feds-raid-of-Stockton-home

3 posted on 06/09/2011 10:22:17 AM PDT by eak3
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To: Kaslin
There is absolutely no reason for cities and municipalities to have control over a Quasi Military force. If your regular police force can not handle tough situations, they are incompetent.


4 posted on 06/09/2011 10:23:27 AM PDT by Lazlo in PA (Now living in a newly minted Red State.)
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To: Kaslin
A poorly trained, led, and equipped team is more dangerous than no team at all.

Well, yes. That's true. But the real problem (as seen in the Guerena case) is that SWAT seem to have been given de facto power of life and death. Have any members of that murderous death-squad been charged yet?

And now SWAT are being used for debt collection! No matter how well trained they are, that is wrong.

5 posted on 06/09/2011 10:23:59 AM PDT by agere_contra ("Debt is the foundation of destruction" : Sarah Palin.)
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To: Kaslin

Well, if we must have them, how about restricting them to one state-run team per state? Surely the real need for SWAT support is so uncommon that one team per state - and a standby helicopter to transport them - would suffice?


6 posted on 06/09/2011 10:23:59 AM PDT by Grut
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To: Kaslin

Most SWAT teams should be disbanded. They create more problems than they solve. Maybe a State level SWAT team would work. Major cities might need one if crime is out of control. Chicago, Detroit, Los Angeles, Miami?


7 posted on 06/09/2011 10:24:31 AM PDT by faucetman (Just the facts ma'am, just the facts)
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To: Kaslin

And let's not forget this jack-booted thug.

8 posted on 06/09/2011 10:25:02 AM PDT by mgstarr ("Some of us drink because we're not poets." Arthur (1981))
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To: driftdiver

Yeah, but it was his estranged wife’s unpaid student loans. He didn’t even know where she lived


9 posted on 06/09/2011 10:26:04 AM PDT by Kaslin (Acronym for OBAMA: One Big Ass Mistake America)
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To: Kaslin

I’m increasingly hearing the term swat team used as a verb. As in, they swat-teamed him.
Not a good trend.


10 posted on 06/09/2011 10:26:55 AM PDT by real saxophonist (The fact that you play tuba doesn't make you any less lethal. -USMC bandsman in Iraq)
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To: Kaslin

Even better eh, weren’t swat teams supposed to be used for high risk events and not bill collecting?

The guy could have easily been killed, not to mention his dogs.


11 posted on 06/09/2011 10:29:23 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Grut

oh cmon now, what the heck would they do with all those toys?


12 posted on 06/09/2011 10:30:17 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: real saxophonist

You better watch out, they might just start swat-teaming people for wrong thinking.


13 posted on 06/09/2011 10:33:19 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus ("Armed forces abroad are of little value unless there is prudent counsel at home." - Cicero)
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To: Kaslin

SWAT teams need to go, period.


14 posted on 06/09/2011 10:35:48 AM PDT by Emperor Palpatine (Here you are in the Ninth - two men out and two men on.)
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To: Kaslin

The Case for SWAT Teams (Mend them, don't end them.)


So much bull shit, so little time.

15 posted on 06/09/2011 10:40:55 AM PDT by EdReform (Oath Keepers - Guardians of the Republic - Honor your oath - Join us: www.oathkeepers.org)
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To: agere_contra

It is not just Swat that seem to have been given de facto power of life and death, look at the Las Vegas Costco killing. Remember police are not your friend.


16 posted on 06/09/2011 10:49:06 AM PDT by Ratman83
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To: Emperor Palpatine
Special Weapons And Tactics

No Unreasonable Search And Seizure

No Cruel And Unusual Punishment

So, which prevail in the end?

17 posted on 06/09/2011 10:52:53 AM PDT by BwanaNdege (For those who have fought for it, Life bears a savor the protected will never know.)
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To: Kaslin
The problem with SWAT Teams is once formed they MUST be used to justify their existence and as there are very few "Hostage/Terrorists situations (for which they were ostensibly thought to be needed) they are then left to be called upon for the service of routine Warrants and even low-level drug raids.

That and the fact that after receiving all their new shiny "toys" from Uncle Sam, they are like little boys on Christmas morning and can't wait to use them...even if in situations which are uncalled for.

They need to be held accountable for their actions and whatever government body in which they are located should enact some very strict guidelines when they can be deployed.

Secondly, they should be afforded no immunity for their conduct and if thru negligence or over enthusiasm, cause destruction of property or harm innocent individuals, they should be held PERSONALLY liable as well as jointly with the local/state government.

Also, if they operate in an honorable and prescribed manner, WHY need to hide (like cowards or terrorists) their identities by wearing masks?

Waaaaaay too many have let their power go to their heads as they know regardless of their actions (they mostly have unfettered power of life and death over those they "target") very, very few are held accountable for their actions.

IMHO, it will take several incidents whereby a homeowner decides (RIGHTLY) to protect his castle and some of these "Cowboy Jackbooted Thugs" begin to get carried out in body bags for any serious thought and discussions of their usefulness to be reconsidered.

18 posted on 06/09/2011 11:06:56 AM PDT by Conservative Vermont Vet (l)
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To: Kaslin

A full time SWAT team with nothing to do but train most of the time would appear to be a costly problem waiting to happen. SWAT trained and equipped patrol officers assigned on each shift are a sensible alternative, and are less likely to be abused simply because they are readily available.


19 posted on 06/09/2011 11:34:27 AM PDT by JimRed (Excising a cancer before it kills us waters the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: Kaslin; SmithL; Eyes Unclouded; Rodney King; Redcitizen; ellery; dcwusmc; Forgotten Amendments; ...
"Whoops... Sorry, citizen. We thought you were someone else" PING

Click the link to be added to the "Whoops. Sorry, citizen. We thought you were someone else" PING list.

20 posted on 06/09/2011 11:51:10 AM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: Kaslin

SWAT == Barney Fife’s w/ multiple bullets in the gun rather than one in the pocket.

Mend (reform) them? You need first to make a credible argument for their existence. In my view that would be very very difficult to do.


21 posted on 06/09/2011 11:51:23 AM PDT by 556x45
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To: Kaslin
Bullshit.

End them.

No more often than those situations occur they could more economically be handled by a small number of national guard units.

So ad this to MP training and go through the state Governor's office for hostage situations.

22 posted on 06/09/2011 11:59:48 AM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: Kaslin

What’s wrong with training regular police officers how to negotiate terrorist/hostage situations? Seems to me like many state and municipal governments are wasting money by hiring and training these officers; very few cities have a high enough crime rate to justify a SWAT team and their cool new toys.

Is it just me or do the SWAT teams seem to be acting more and more like the Gestapo? Abuse of power is always a possibility in any LEO but when you grant officers shiny new weapons, complete anonymity, and total immunity from the consequences of their actions, abuse is more likely to occur.


23 posted on 06/09/2011 12:06:43 PM PDT by SoCal SoCon (Conservatism =/= Corporatism.)
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To: Kaslin
The Case for SWAT...

Where is the case for them? I get sick of the generic in case of (fill-in-the-current-boogey-man)...

The job of the police is to protect citizens; the job of the military is to kill enemies. They are not just incompatible; they are irreconcilable.

Nice reference to the SF operator, but the majority of SWAT teams are composed of wanna be's, most of whom would not make it through basic training, much less into SF. Too many innocents have already died at their hands.

There is absolutely no reason for a no-knock warrant. If perps are able to flush drugs down the toilet before the cops get in, then it wasn't going to be much of a bust anyway! As for hostage situations, they generally play crowd control. How many times has a sniper actually been utilized? Even then, that is two individuals who could be trained with a fraction of the resources.

And let's not forget the most important part: SOF teams cannot exist without proper C2. Tactics are great, but only strategy wins wars. The lack of oversight, intelligence, and control is what leads to these incidents. If a SF team went rogue, I guarantee that heads would roll at HQ. There is no equivalent authority or accountability in LEOs.

24 posted on 06/09/2011 12:23:03 PM PDT by antidisestablishment (Our people perish through lack of wisdom, but they are content in their ignorance.)
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To: Kaslin

The only even semi-legitimate purpose of a swat team is a hostage situation. Problem with that, though is 1. Those types of situations are extraordinarily rare. 2. They rarely achieve their objective. For many years, the FBI’s HRT had a perfect record in hostage situations: everyone they were attempting to ‘save’ died, many at the hands of the HRT itself.


25 posted on 06/09/2011 12:23:10 PM PDT by zeugma (The only thing in the social security trust fund is your children and grandchildren's sweat.)
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To: mgstarr
And let's not forget this jack-booted thug.

I never will. That's when my American flag went into the attic forever. Sad to say, the American sheeple LOVED that jack-booted thug. They loved Waco. They love torture and perpetual war (now that those "volunteers" fight it for them). We salute the thugs molesting our kids at the airport. The Republicans believe in The Bill of Right (2nd Amendment) and the Dems are worse.

It's over.

26 posted on 06/09/2011 1:47:24 PM PDT by Forgotten Amendments (Laws named after kids are tyrannical.)
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To: Abathar; Abcdefg; Abram; Abundy; akatel; albertp; AlexandriaDuke; Alexander Rubin; Allerious; ...
SWAT teams are now routinely used to serve arrest and search warrants that would otherwise be executed by a few detectives and patrol officers. Many LEOs see such situations as training opportunities ... In fact, if lives are at risk, it is certainly not training.



Libertarian ping! Click here to get added or here to be removed or post a message here!
27 posted on 06/09/2011 2:35:01 PM PDT by bamahead (Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master. -- Sallust)
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To: faucetman

>Most SWAT teams should be disbanded. They create more problems than they solve. Maybe a State level SWAT team would work. Major cities might need one if crime is out of control. Chicago, Detroit, Los Angeles, Miami?

I disagree, if crime is *that* far out of control it is not an issue for the SWAT, or even the police, but the militia.


28 posted on 06/09/2011 3:20:09 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: driftdiver

“22 out of 71 rounds fired hit Guerena”

I thought he was shot 60 times.


29 posted on 06/09/2011 4:49:58 PM PDT by chessplayer
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To: chessplayer

There’s been a lot of incorrect information put out by the sheriff. I think 22 is the right number.


30 posted on 06/09/2011 4:51:54 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Kaslin

Of course SWAT teams should not be fully abolished. They are quite necessary in hostage situations and some Columbine like situations. But they should be abolished for 99% of what they are used for now.


31 posted on 06/09/2011 6:16:42 PM PDT by Nate505
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To: driftdiver; Kaslin

yup, after seeing that I conclude they are broken beyond
mending.


32 posted on 06/10/2011 2:06:43 AM PDT by cycjec
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To: Conservative Vermont Vet

There is a little borough outside of Pittsburgh that started a SWAT team. They got federal grant money to buy all the toys, including a armored car.
The county has a SWAT team already. Trained and experianced. The county SWAT team gets called out for hostage and raids on drug labs.
The borough SWAT team got called out once in three years. Then the borough ran out of cash and ordered it disbanded. The Armored truck is sitting in the parking lot. The fancy body armor is in a closet and the sniper rifles and auto weapons sit in a gun locker.
What a friggen waste.


33 posted on 06/10/2011 5:18:41 AM PDT by Yorlik803 (better to die on your feet than live on your knees.)
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To: Kaslin

I think dynamic entries should be used on hostage situations ONLY.

They are so overused these days.


34 posted on 06/10/2011 5:57:45 AM PDT by jjm2111
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To: Kaslin
Local PDs should not have SWAT units. SWAT should be a State Police unit, called in only when there is a damn good reason.

By making it a state unit, the local police wanting a SWAT raid would not only need a warrant, but also have their warrant and reasons be convincing to the SWAT commander who is not under their chain of command, and who does NOT want to be associated with a major screwup in judgement.

By making SWAT consist of a few units in the state, it would be possible to have SWAT be better trained and equipped, and also faster to deploy, since it would become cost-justifiable to give them helicopter transport.

35 posted on 06/10/2011 6:10:21 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 ("It is only when we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything" -- Fight Club)
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To: Nate505

IIRC Columbine had no active shooters for 4 hours before SWAT would enter the building.

Not as much SWAT as CRAWL


36 posted on 06/10/2011 7:11:41 AM PDT by Duke_Digger
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To: PapaBear3625
Local PDs should not have SWAT units. SWAT should be a State Police unit, called in only when there is a damn good reason.

I wish the "real" SWAT teams--those that existed before every two-bit police department decided it needed to have one--would speak out against the proliferation of SWAT-wannabe teams. It is reasonably debatable whether there is a need for "real" SWAT teams; there is no justification, however, for many of the SWAT-wannabe teams. Not only do their tactics recklessly endanger innocent people, but they would also recklessly endanger the lives of the officers involved if their targets were anywhere near as dangerous as they claimed.

37 posted on 06/10/2011 4:39:02 PM PDT by supercat (Barry Soetoro == Bravo Sierra)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

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