Beck Bashing or Flock Defending?

I; for one, thank God that Beck has been given the time, money, and inclination to do the research he has and to travel the path he has chosen. He has taken to exhorting people to find God, turn to God, pray to God, and above all, listen to God. He is not recommending an avenue or a religion to achieve that. He is not proselytizing or insisting that his religious view is the only one. He is pointing out that the stakes are so high, and the danger so great that without God as an anchor, you will be swamped. If you are offended that the Catholic Church is wrongly accused of an excess, I can respect that. Your assertion that the only possible explanation for the error is hatred is simplistic. Your sly declaration that the Catholic Church is the Christian Church is insulting. The progressives are the enemy. Reigniting the debate on transubstantiation vs. consubstantiation (a metaphor) is not going to accomplish anything except victory to the unfaithful. My faith in God, my love for Jesus the Christ, and my gratitude that he would extend his sacrifice to a miserable sinner such as I am is not likely to be shaken by a TV historian, an extinct sect, or a gathering of Bishops 1600 years ago. To have freedom, there must be free will. Without it, there can be no virtue. There can be no good and no evil. Without free will, temptation is meaningless.

Beck believes the document is inspired, on par with the Bible (which would not be saying much, from Beck’s point of view). So maybe he believes it is more inspired than the Bible.

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This is so out of left field, I don't even know where to start.

No, Beck doesn't think the Constitution is not on par with the bible. It is inspired, most definitely, but not scripture.

Here's a snippet of what an LDS Apostle has said on the matter: This is from Dalin H. Oaks, former Utah Supreme Court Justice, now LDS Apostle.

The Divinely Inspired Constitution

By Elder Dallin H. Oaks
Of the Quorum of the Twelve

“...It was a miracle that the Constitution could be drafted and ratified. But what is there in the text of the Constitution that is divinely inspired?

Reverence for the United States Constitution is so great that sometimes individuals speak as if its every word and phrase had the same standing as scripture. Personally, I have never considered it necessary to defend every line of the Constitution as scriptural. For example, I find nothing scriptural in the compromise on slavery or the minimum age or years of citizenship for congressmen, senators, or the president. President J. Reuben Clark, who referred to the Constitution as “part of my religion,” 6 also said that it was not part of his belief or the doctrine of the Church that the Constitution was a “fully grown document.” “On the contrary,” he said, “We believe it must grow and develop to meet the changing needs of an advancing world.” 7

That was also the attitude of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He faulted the Constitution for not being “broad enough to cover the whole ground.” In an obvious reference to the national government’s lack of power to intervene when the state of Missouri used its militia to expel the Latter-day Saints from their lands, Joseph Smith said,

“Its sentiments are good, but it provides no means of enforcing them. … Under its provision, a man or a people who are able to protect themselves can get along well enough; but those who have the misfortune to be weak or unpopular are left to the merciless rage of popular fury.” 8 This omission of national power to protect citizens against state action to deprive them of constitutional rights was remedied in the Fourteenth Amendment, adopted just after the Civil War.

I see divine inspiration in what President J. Reuben Clark called the “great fundamentals” of the Constitution. In his many talks on the Constitution, he always praised three fundamentals: (a) the separation of powers into three independent branches of government in a federal system; (b) the essential freedoms of speech, press, and religion embodied in the Bill of Rights; and (c) the equality of all men before the law. I concur in these three, but I add two more. On my list there are five great fundamentals....”

http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1992.htm/ensign%20february%201992%20.htm/the%20divinely%20inspired%20constitution.htm

“Jefferson was a pagan.”

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Jefferson wasn't a pagan, he just didn't buy into what he viewed as the evolving theology that Christianity had become over the millennia.

Said Jefferson:

“The religion builders have so distorted and deformed the doctrines of Jesus, so muffled them in mysticisms, fancies, and falsehoods, have caricatured them into forms so inconceivable, as to shock reasonable thinkers....Happy in the prospect of a restoration of primitive Christianity, I must leave to younger persons to encounter and lop off the false branches which have been engrafted into it by the mythologists of the middle and modern ages.”

(Jefferson’s Complete Works, vol 7, pp 210, 257)

The statements about the Dead Sea Scrolls were not in error. He had a point, and he was willing to either count on Anti-Christians as his source or he was making it up. He clearly intended to demean historic Christianity. Listen to the clip again.

I am not Catholic so you must be mistaken.

"The progressives are the enemy" No, I believe all falsehood is the enemy, from wherever it comes.

"To have freedom, there must be free will. Without it, there can be no virtue. There can be no good and no evil. Without free will, temptation is meaningless."

I know that Glenn Beck holds this view; it is the reason he thinks that disobeying God and obeying Satan was a good idea way back in the garden of Eden. To him, and some other Non-Mormons, freedom to choose is more important than doing what is right.

My full reply to this is found in another post on Free Republic.

Evidently, here is the Beck quote:

All right. So here’s what happened. When Constantine decided he was going to uh… cobble together an army, um, he did the uh… Council of uh… Nicaea, right, Pat? … Council of Nicaea. Um… and what they did is brought all of the religious figures, uhh, together, all the Christians and then they said, “Ok, let’s uh, put together the Apostles’ Creed, let’s, you know, you guys do it.” So they brought all their religious scripture together, and that’s when the Bible was first bound and everything else. And then they said, “Anybody that disagrees with this is a heretic and… off with their head!” Well, that’s what the Dead Sea Scrolls are. The Dead Sea Scrolls are those scriptures that people had at the time that they said, “They are destroying all of this truth.” Whether it’s truth or not is, is up to the individual, but that… at that time those people thought that this was something that needed to be preserved and so they rolled up the scrolls and they put ‘em in clay pots and they, they put ‘em in the back of caves where no one could find them. They were hidden scripture because everything was being destroyed that disagreed with the Council of Nicaea and Constantine. That’s what those things are.

What's true out of that:

Constantine called the Council of Nicaea
The Council of Nicaea did write a creed (but it wasn't the Apostles' Creed)
The Dead Sea Scrolls were rolled up, put into pots, and hidden in caves (... 250 years before Constantine called the Council)

Everything else is fiction.

Glenn Beck said this about the documents: "It is God’s finger that wrote the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. This is God’s country; these are God’s rights. I have no idea what he wants us to do with them, other than protect them, and stand with Him." Yet, he goes out of his way to claim that the church persecuted those who held the real Bible, the Essenes. A Mormon historian wrote

Among his many statements on the Constitution, Joseph Smith declared:

“We say that God is true, that the Constitution of the United States is true, that the Bible is true, the Book of Mormon is true, that Christ is true, that the ministering of angels is true;…” 6

This comes from the Doctrine and Covenants.

My take on the whole deal is that Beck is doing a lot of good with trying to bring this country back to an understanding of the beginnings of this country and where we went wrong.

When he does mention getting back to Faith he, at least every time I’ve heard him, mentions most all churches.

While I also disagree with the Mormon faith I think if a person is founded in his faith what Beck says will just be taken as error on his part.

I think if we take the good he does and pray that the Spirit brings him into a correct understanding it would be more beneficial.

At this point he is the only one on TV who is speaking as much truth as he is and will bring people together who understand what America was founded on. He’s done more good for the conservative cause then any other person that I can remember.

If we keep shooting the conservatives we disagree with there will be very few of us left. That’s when the true evil wins.

If you are going to quibble about words, I don't think I claimed Beck said it was "scripture". Only that it was inspired, written by the finger of God. But Ezra Taft Benson said this of the constitution:

“its words are akin to scripture, for God has placed His stamp of approval upon it.”

Now if you argue that "akin" and "on par" are not the same, I am afraid you are too closed-minded to discuss these things with. Mormons leaders have also said:

In August 1833 the Lord stated that He endorsed the United States Constitution, and that “as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil.”

In December 1833, the Lord revealed that He raised up the Founding Fathers of this Nation, established the United States Constitution, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood.4

My Dad used to say that the key to successful governance was a ‘balance’ of power. That every time one party gets control of both houses and the White House our government goes off the rails. And I used to believe in that.

Dad theory was the democrats protected the people from getting a shakedown from the rich and prevented oligarchy, and the republicans implemented policies that kept the economy stimulated so that we could ALL benefit from the INVESTMENT of their money which produce good jobs and stability. And that that’s why we needed to keep a balance of that power.

But, that was when we had democrats and republicans. We don’t have that anymore...we’ve got ‘progressives’ (aka commies) that have fused themselves into both parties that are totally corrupt, ammoral, anti-anything that resembles religion, strong families, and success and just rewards. They’ve figured out by promoting feel good, do-gooder programs fools the masses. Then they write up their legislation with selection criteria where NOBODY qualifies for it and they’ll steal the money to buy votes. They’ll campaign on it, and then implement socialism and collectivism and statism once they get elected. And they’ve tossed out the Constitution like it was an old relic, rather than the law of this land.

I believe when Glenn Beck speaks out against both parties that this is what he’s talking about.

The small number of true conservatives left that understand our free market and how it works just haven’t figured out how to lead us out of this GLOB OF GOOK feel good, do-gooder, for the good of all BS! They’ve got to get noisy, fight dirty, and forget the grand old party of gentlemen and get down in the ditches and call these commies out! Call them freaking communists! I think maybe they’re figuring this out! Boehner just called one of their horrible concoctions of a bill a ‘PIECE OF S**T! He’s finally speaking out in a language that will get somebody’s attention! lol

Still not the same, keep trying.

being akin and being on par (equal) are different.

I may have a cousin who is kin, but unless I have a clone, that is my equal, we are not the same.

The rest of your post is accurate though, here's some more that you may have wanted to post. I can't stress it enough, it is most definitely inspiration from God.

Doctrine and Covenants 109:54
Have mercy, O Lord, upon all the nations of the earth; have mercy upon the rulers of our land; may those principles, which were so honorably and nobly defended, namely, the Constitution of our land, by our fathers, be established forever.

Doctrine and Covenants 101:80
And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood.

Doctrine and Covenants 101:
77 According to the laws and constitution of the people, which I have suffered to be established, and should be maintained for the rights and protection of all flesh, according to just and holy principles;
78 That every man may act in doctrine and principle pertaining to futurity, according to the moral agency which I have given unto him, that every man may be accountable for his own sins in the day of judgment.
79 Therefore, it is not right that any man should be in bondage one to another.

Doctrine and Covenants 98:
4 And now, verily I say unto you concerning the laws of the land, it is my will that my people should observe to do all things whatsoever I command them.
5 And that law of the land which is constitutional, supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me.
6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;
7 And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil.
8 I, the Lord God, make you free, therefore ye are free indeed; and the law also maketh you free.
9 Nevertheless, when the wicked rule the people mourn.

Further, as Beck said, it was “God's finger” that wrote the Constitution. How does that say it is scripture?

When one refers to a blessing of some kind and we say that was the “hand of God”, what does that mean to you?

If the Constitution was scripture, it would be perfect right?

How about the Bill of Right? Does that mean God isn't perfect in his word? No, it means that God inspired men to do his will. Even the Founders can attest to that great truth.

I think Patrick Henry said it pretty succinctly.

“It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great Nation was founded not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For that reason alone, people of other faiths have been afforded freedom of worship here.” - Patrick Henry

Is Patrick Henry saying the founding documents are scripture? Of course not, but he is saying our country is built on the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Dang just because someone is LDS you want to shoot them for they are to the wrong messenger!

Well do you see anyone else out there?

Whatever you take away from this D&C 101 the point is in this American government was established so that all men could practice their faith according to the dictates of their conscience at NO time was just one religion ever a discussion.

D&C 101 78 That every man may act in doctrine and principle pertaining to futurity, according to the moral agency which I have given unto him, that every man may be accountable for his own sins in the day of judgment.

79 Therefore, it is not right that any man should be in bondage one to another.

80 And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood.

Ezra Taft Benson-Warning

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