Posted on 01/26/2009 8:44:10 PM PST by nysuperdoodle
One reason sawed-off shotguns are illegal is because they have a larger pattern at close range.
Which basically makes them functionally illegal to the average person interested in a home defense weapon, given the difficulty and cost of that process.
I go to an indoor range about once every other month and shoot 5 and 7 yard targets. They only allow 00 2 3/4 inch ammo. At 5 yards the pattern is a consistent 3.5 inches.
Out in the woods I’ve tried 15 pellet 3 inch magnum loads. These give a little better than a 4 inch pattern at 5 yards but the recoil is a lot greater. I’ve also tried a variety of different brands of ammo. Cheap stuff, Remmington or Wolf, tends to give a slightly larger pattern than more expensive shot.
Bird shot may give you a 12 to 16 inch pattern at 5 yards but it won’t put a bad guy on the floor.
This is out of a 18.5 inch, cylinder bore 12 gauge barrel on a Mossberg 500.
I like Rossi and Taurus. Same quality as S&W, but lower price.
I don't have the numbers to support the "most common platform" comment either, but at last count there are over THIRTY manufacturers selling AR-pattern rifles and lower receivers. During the Clinton years there were maybe five or six.
“She now CCWs with her own full size Kimber Custom TLE/RL II in stainless.”
She has a mighty fine weapon. I have a Kimber Crimson Ultra....simply beautiful.
Which basically makes them functionally illegal to the average person interested in a home defense weapon, given the difficulty and cost of that process.
Anyway, liberals know that banning guns just isn’t going to happen without causing a second Civil War, their real goal will be to stop the sale and development of new guns and to severely control the sale of used ones as well as ammo.If they get too restrictive, then gangbangers will be selling ammo in addition to shooting ammo.
... The key is training and technique...
All great points you posted, but proper fit is very important, too. Make sure the LOP is not too long. And a good recoil pad (or Knoxx stock) will help with the recoil.
“If they get too restrictive, then gangbangers will be selling ammo in addition to shooting ammo. “
Excellent point! And one I never thought of.
But libs will never see this.
A 12 gauge won’t knock you off your feet, but their recoil *will* get your attention. Some 12 gauge shotguns have less recoil than others. A lot of factors affect recoil, such as weight, barrel length, stock design, internal shock absorbers, type of ammo. Benelli advertises theirs have internal shock absorbers that reduce recoil. Thick rubber buttpads help a great deal too. A 20 gauge would likely be as effective against 2-legged predators.
I have a funny story on that issue, When I was 19, I went down to a farm with some friends who were there to shoot. I was 97 pounds at the time.
Back then it was popular for girls to have a few different color wigs, or falls, they called them. That day I wore a fall and had it pinned in my hair. I didn’t figure I would do any shooting.
I wanted to try shooting this gun for the first time. They let me. When I shot it, I flew over backward and that wig thing flew off my head. Some guy that was with us started screaming, Geesh, I think she got a squirrel! He really did think it was a squirrel.
I have never forgotten that moment, and I laugh everytime I think about it. I was so embarrassed. LOL
No, shotguns with barrels less than 18” are restricted because an anti-gunner came up with the “evil street-sweeper” image and it was politically viable.
If a 40” minimum that made your shotgun 20 lbs. and completely useless for defense were possible, they would’ve gone with that. The pattern from a 12.5” or 14” barrel is still very tight at close ranges...but it would be lighter and much more maneuverable for a lot of residents so it’s just another way to harass people and make defending themselves more difficult.
For an 18” defense shotgun, completely open choke, a decent rule of thumb is an inch per yard. So you’re not going to just let loose and paint whatever wall your attacker is near...or even throw a torso-sized spread. If you point at center mass most of your shot will fit between two of his shirt buttons (well ok an area that size on his XXXL).
Think of a shotgun at any defensive range as a fist of lead.
Back then it was popular for girls to have a few different color wigs, or falls, they called them. That day I wore a fall and had it pinned in my hair. I didn’t figure I would do any shooting.
I wanted to try shooting this gun for the first time. They let me. When I shot it, I flew over backward and that wig thing flew off my head. Some guy that was with us started screaming, Geesh, I think she got a squirrel! He really did think it was a squirrel.
I have never forgotten that moment, and I laugh everytime I think about it. I was so embarrassed. LOL
LOLOL!!! Girl, that is hilarious!
MissDairyGoodnessVT, I'm glad she told this story. I was being polite in saying it might "knock you off your feet" when I really wanted to say "it might knock you on your butt" because that is what is likely to happen. LOL A 12 ga has a pretty mean kick to it.
My little 20 ga has a pistol grip, and the first time I shot it, it flew out of my hands. LOL I was so embarrassed. I thought it would be the perfect gun for me because it had the pistol grip. I was injured in an accident and have had a couple of spinal surgeries. I was afraid having a stock on the gun might hurt my shoulder and/or my spine, from the kick, so that is why I opted for the pistol grip. I really thought my hands were stronger than that, but I've had two surgeries on my right hand too and it's weaker than I thought.
I'm going to try shooting a 20 with a stock on it and I'll see how that does. With a pistol grip and a short barrel it's a mean looking little gun.
Lindy, thanks again for sharing that delightful story. I will never forget it either. I bet the guy who thought it was a squirrel had a good laugh about it too. LOL I bet he was very embarrassed. ;o)
Glad you got a kick out of it. My husband roars when I tell that story.
The guys who had the guns were all Michiganders who grew up with guns. They rolled with laughter after seeing me pick myself up with bobby pins sticking out all over my head.
Then one of them went over and picked up that hairpiece and held it up while they all laughed their butts off.
I can never forget that day. I learned what recoil was!
I’m sure there’s a fellow freeper in your hhome state who would find you a place to shoot.
Several years ago I and several other Marines were getting in some target practice from the 600 Yard line when one of the younger officers wives asked to join us. She was all of about 5' 2" tall and very petite. After demonstrating proficiency with the M14 and M16 rifles she expressed an interest in shooting one of the 50 Cal rifles.
On the front end of the 50 Cal barrel is a device intended to dampen the effect of the recoil (kick) of the rifle. One of the side effects is that the blast of energy from the shot is directed backwards and to both sides of the shooter, which sometimes causing a cloud of dust to envelope the shooter.
Our young lady lay down behind the rifle on a nylon covered shooting mat with rubber patches to help the shooter hold the rifle steady. Once checked out on the safety devices on the rifle and some coaching on how to align the telescopic sight she was cleared to fire her first shot.
She squeezed the trigger like a pro and sent one round straight through the center of the target. Then the effect of the recoil began to be apparent. The lady, the rifle and the shooting mat all slid to the rear about 2 feet. A cloud of dust, leaves and twigs completely covered the area where she lay.
When the dust settled, She got up on her hands and knees and with twigs sticking out of her mouth, looked our way with the biggest grin I have ever seen. The first words out of her mouth were "Can I do it Again"
She fired several more rounds that morning and all went straight through the center of the target.
Have fun and stay safe
An Old Man
With me, it's just what I grew up with. Perfect in-between size. Good for pheasant, rabbit, or deer.
With 3" magnum shells and # 2 shot or deer slugs, it is more than capable in putting down two-legged critters.
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