Posted on 07/17/2008 4:34:13 PM PDT by Libertarianize the GOP
Congress is the place to challenge McCain’s or Obama’s qualifications to be President
The New York Times has twice ran articles questioning whether John McCain’s birth in the Panama Canal Zone would disqualify him to be President based on Article II of the U.S. Constitution: “No Person except a natural born Citizen . . . shall be eligible to the Office of President”. “Natural born” is not defined. The blogosphere is ripe with speculation that Obama may also fail to meet the qualification, since his supporters posted online an inauthentic copy of a birth certificate purporting to be for Barack Obama. The allegations have raised the specter of a challenge to either candidates’ eligibility to be President. Congress, not the courts are the constitutionally correct place to determine whether a President elect meets all of the qualifications to hold the Office of President.
Both Article II Section 1 and Amendment XII of the US Constitution call for President of the Senate to count the electors votes. There are procedures for Congress to make the choice if no one has a majority. Amendment XX has procedures for dealing with a situation where “the President elect shall have failed to qualify”. While it is not spelled out who judges the President's qualification the constitutionally correct place would be in Congress since all the duties surrounding the issue are designated to Congress and no one else is given the authority.
It is not spelled out but if a challenge were made at the time the electors’ votes are counted Congress would have to deal with the issue. Evidence could be presented and testimony heard, then a decision would have to be made. There is nothing in the Constitution giving the courts authority to make the decision; lawyers think the courts are always the place for making decisions so they don’t think of other options that fit better with the structure of the Constitution. It does not matter whether the challenge is to the election of McCain, Obama or anyone else, the process would be the same.
If the defect in the President’s qualifications were to come to light after the President was sworn in then the procedures for impeachment would be appropriate, since running for office in violation of the constitutional requirement for being a “natural born Citizen” would be high Crime or Misdemeanor.
The Senate has already expressed the opinion that McCain is a "natural born Citizen" and eligible for the Office of the President. Senator Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.) and Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.) introduced the resolution during April of this year after the first New York Times article. Obama might be required to present a Birth Certificate if his qualifications were challenged and then the issue would be resolved. Since all of the authority for counting the electors and dealing with a President elect who fails to qualify rest with Congress, Congress is also the appropriate place to determine the President’s qualifications.
Nice to see that you didn’t read the post.
They had better be careful, our candidate is running for the people with all of the guns and God on our side...
No need to read the post. Any post that questions John McCain’s qualifications to be President is a waste of time. If there was a Constitutional issue then the Supreme Court would have the ball unless Congress wished to amend the Constitution. Worthless article.
Also worthless since Congress has already passed a bill stating McCain was a US Citizen.
Military bases and embassies are US sovereign territory. Anyone born at either are US citizens.
Learn the law before you go spouting off this sort of stuff, please.
If you can’t read the post then don’t bother to reply.
As far as I’m concerned. Obama is toast when it comes to eligibility.
But, timing is everything ..... !!!!!
Let me explain.
Assuming Obama could not substantiate his “natural born US ciitizenship” status then the following may play out.
If this assumption comes to a definitive conclusion before the DNC in August, then Hillary will take over and run against McCain, in that case, tough luck for McCain.
If on the other hand if this expose is verified between DNC and Nov 4th, the whole Dem could be in chaos and nobody knows what would happen. Hillary’s sweet revenge you could say.
In the best case scenario for McCain, if this thing blows up between Nov 4th and Jan 2009 even if Obama won the election, McCain could be declared the winner by default since Obama would be disqualified. Win-win situation for Mccain for “beating” Obama and Hillary.
But as it stands, the cat is already out of the bag so I don’t think this could be kept back. In the end, I think McCain will end up facing Hillary.
In short, republican troopers screwed McCain by being too eager and overzealous.
But, time will tell.
what I don’t understand is why post a worthless article and then insult people that don’t respond to your “article” the way you want. People are not necessarily posting to you as a person but to the thread. I usually post the article to facilitate discussion and step out of the way.
So far nobody has bothered to respond to a single issue raised by the post and I do take it as an insult since I wrote the original.
Many of us have wasted more time than the article was worth in providing input to you. You distract from your main premise by lumping McCain & Obama together for some strange reason. That ticks people off. Then your main premise is flawed. Congress doesn’t interpret the Constitution the SC does. Like a divided Senate is going to do anything but say both of their own is qualified? G’day.
Show me any evidence to support your contention that my interpretation of the Constitution and the proper role of Congress is wrong. Just because you assume something does not make it true. The Supreme Court is not the appropriate place to make all decisions with no input form the other branches of government. Try reading The Federalist Papers No. 80 and 81.
The qualifications to be President are spelled out in the Constitution. Congress can amend the Constitution if they wish but they are not the final interpreters of the Constitution which resides with the Supreme Court.
The whole premise of your “article” is flawed.
Read the Constitution and show me where the Courts have any authority to ascertain the qualifications of a Presidential candidate. It is not in there. Blindly asserting a premise for which you can’t find any evidence does not make it true. Try reading
http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst.html
Thus, HE IS A US CITIZEN.Up front let me say that McCain's natural born status is not going to affect the election one way or the other.
The point being raised is that a president must be a natural born citizen. McCain was not born on the military base, he was born in a hospital in town. It could be argued that in the most literal, hair splitting interpretation that McCain is not a natural born citizen. Of course he is a citizen since he had citizens for parents, just not a natural born one.
Section 3 of the 20th amendment says that the VP Elect becomes the acting president:
3. If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.What exactly this means is unclear. In the case of age I guess the VP could act as president until the President Elect's birthday. But what would it mean in the case of citizenship? The President Elect will never qualify. It sounds like we would have an acting president until the next election since they didn't spell out how to choose another at this point.
Another question is who would declare the President Elect ineligible. It seems to be up to the Congress but I bet they could fight for years over that point.
I wrote about this in this thread. The case is different if the problem is discovered before the Electoral College votes. That would really be a wild scenario.
The articles in the Times admit this will go nowhere. Just an interesting bit of Electoral College trivia.
Thus, HE IS A US CITIZEN.Up front let me say that McCain's natural born status is not going to affect the election one way or the other IMHO.
The point being raised is that a president must be a natural born citizen. McCain was not born on the military base, he was born in a hospital in town. It could be argued that in the most literal, hair splitting interpretation that McCain is not a natural born citizen. Of course he is a citizen since he had citizens for parents, just not a natural born one.
Section 3 of the 20th amendment says that the VP Elect becomes the acting president:
3. If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.What exactly this means is unclear. In the case of age I guess the VP could act as president until the President Elect's birthday. But what would it mean in the case of citizenship? The President Elect will never qualify. It sounds like we would have an acting president until the next election since they didn't spell out how to choose another at this point.
Another question is who would declare the President Elect ineligible. It seems to be up to the Congress but I bet they could fight for years over that point.
I wrote about this in this thread. The case is different if the problem is discovered before the Electoral College votes. That would really be a wild scenario.
The articles in the Times admit this will go nowhere. Just an interesting bit of Electoral College trivia.
Are you attempting to argue that the U. S. Supreme Court does not have the authority to interpret the U. S. Constitution. Is that your assertion? Really?
The SC has claimed that power since the early 1800s and to assert otherwise is a waste of time. The qualifications are in the Constitution and no one is seriously challenging the plain meanings of those words. However if someone were to challenge the meaning in that courts it would end up in the hands of the SC to make a final ruling as to what that statement (or any other) in the Constitution means.
Thanks for some intelligent comments.
On your thread
Selection one after electoral vote but before swearing in it would be interesting but I think congress would have to declare him ineligible sort of like Amendment XXV.
Selection two after taking office, I think he would have to be impeached unless he first resigned and then the presidency would fall to the VP.
Selection three if before the electors vote most would be bound to vote for the VP of the same party.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.