Posted on 07/06/2008 1:24:43 PM PDT by chaosagent
I just read the Strata-Sphere's supposed debunking of the Obama birth certificate forgery situation.
http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/5626
And I've got two (maybe more) problems/questions.
1. Where are the folds in the paper?
It was posted in a previous article on FR that someone had talked to the department that sends out BC's in Hawaii and the lady confirmed that they never send out a electronic version. It is ALWAYS folded and mailed.
Why would anyone go to the trouble to remove the folds to post it online? It would only call into question the authenticity of the document.
The Decosta BC has folds. Where are Obama's?
2. Strata-Sphere seems to think that Hawaii BC's are printed all at once, green background, black border, state seal, personal info, everything in one fell swoop.
I would be willing to bet that this is not true for several reasons.
First, it would require a color laser printer, not just a B&W one. More expensive in intial cost, toner, and maintenance, etc.
Second, it would be much cheaper to have the basic forms preprinted and just load them into a cheap B&W laser. College transcripts at several universities I am familar with all do it this way.
My wife and I recently had to obtain BC's for passports, hers from Kentucky, mine from Alabama. In the last two years I've to obtain copies of my parents birth certificates, marriage certificates and death certificates.
It was obvious they all were done this way. You can hold them up to the light at an angle and see the toner from the data setting on top of the form itself. Take a look at yours and see for yourself.
Questions about why the certificate number is blacked out, why the fonts seem to look different from the Decosta BC, why Obama's father's race is referred to as 'African', why on the Decosta BC the father's race is referred to as 'White' but Obama's mother is referred as 'Caucasian', I will leave to others.
It's so much easier to set up a color laser and print the whole doggone thing. That way you never get the registration wrong, or print on the wrong side! Sounds almost trouble-free.
When I had a certified copy of my birth certificate sent to me from El Paso, they sent a copy of the original which had been microphiched. Since this whole thing started, the apparent one rolling around seems to be computer printed (ala, the Rathergate scenario). There has to be an original and for some silly reason, computer documentation of birth certificates were not generated by computer in 1961.
There’s no reason to black out the certificate number except to hide a forgery.
A genuine certificate number would belong to some other very likely living person, who might spot it and expose the fraud.
An invalid certificate number would be easily exposed by the State of Hawaii.
The birth certificate on the Obama website is a forgery.
The Rats are getting deperate!
The reason for this, and ALL BC's and certifications is that they MUST, to be legal, be embossed with the city seal - an operation that can ONLY be done by hand. This, of course, results in a raised impression on both sides - which would not be possible in an electronic transfer -
Then, of course, they must be mailed - and the department in question confirmed that they are always folded twice for mailing - presumably to fit in the envelope they use.
There is no embossed seal on this thing - nor folds
First of all, I really don't get this whole "fake Birth Certificate" thing. It seems to me that the only possible thing he could be hiding is that he is not a US citizen, but I'm sure if that were the case the Clintons would have already brought that to light and would be claiming Hillary is the presumed nominee by default.
However, the claim by Strata-Sphere is just dumb, that is security paper that is made by a bonded paper company. It includes watermarks and other embedded security marks to prevent forgeries. I have had past experience dealing with this type of paper and for security reasons it is usually produced on tracker feed paper and fed into old dot matrix printers that have counters on them so that a missing sheet can be detected. Each page had to be accounted for included pages damaged by mis-feeds or jams. Although I don't know for a fact that Hawaii uses the same security measures for their paper, it would be reasonable to assume that they do because of the nature of the document especially post-9/11.
Sorry, but I don’t get your point. It doesn’t seem to me that you’ve disproved anything.
I don't know what I think about the birth certificte thing but that is not a alid argument. I'm sure her campaign sucked big time and attempted to mail it in. People are way more stupid than you think and that includes Barry Dunham's people
alid = valid
That is a reasonable supposition. But if they are aware of his not being a US citizen and are waiting for the right moment to strike for the kill, just before the convention would be a good time. Remember, she is not spending campaign funds now. If she can zap him and only need to campaign for about three months, her financial burden would be greatly alleviated. Would she do such a thing to her party? In a heartbeat.
I don't know if this citizenship thing will turn out to be a tempest in a teacup. The Obama campaign may have a real certificate out there and simply be waiting for the right time to post it for maximum effect. But it seems to me to be much more effective to just post the real certificate and end the matter than to play a game like this. Obama knows about this matter beyond a shadow of a doubt. This goes to the question of his judgement. Will minor problems generally be ignored and allowed to grow into a major ones?
Hmmmmmm... Someone maybe lying here - KOS? As I recall, the story goes that the image was first obtained by KOS and then they gave it to the Obama campaign.
In my analysis I find the Kos version to be the highest quality image file of the original document, produced in Jun of 2007 by the state of Hawaii. I find the Obama campaign site version to be a lower quality version of the original, probably because someone decided to shrink the file size to optimize download size for the web.
Are you being disingenuous? The reason you find the KOS image of higher quality is because the version now on the Official Obama website is that they shrunk it to avoid scrutiny and also removed the link to the larger image which is of the same quality as the KOS image.
I could detect the impression of the state seal stamp and signature area on two of the files.
They are fussy, two dimensional, no depth seen, looks like a homemade stamp, an obvious forgery, which only came into existence in the KOS image after the bloggers made the "embossed seal and signature" an issue. And about the same time the Obama camp removed their higher quality Obama birth certificate image from their website.
However, Ben LaBolt, an Obama campaign spokesman, gave the Obama birth certificate to the Los Angeles Times, and you'll find out that it does not have a state seal or signature image that can be seen using the Edge-Detected filter as you can do with the KOS BC image because it's not there...? You coverup people are leaving loose ends.
LAT image here...mouse over and click the BC image for the larger one.
I think you might be right about this. The birth certificate number would not be a social security number so there would be no good reason to block it out. Obama has some explaining to do here.
I think we’re getting lost in the semantics here.
Strata-Sphere posted his analysis saying in his opinion the Obama BC’s that have been posted are NOT fake. He thinks they are probably real.
I posted my comments and questions regarding his analysis.
IMHO there are so many questions/problems with this whole thing, i.e. relatives saying he was born in Kenya, two different hospitals mentioned as his birthplace, one of which may not have existed in 1961, etc, etc, etc, that I lean toward the where’s there smoke, there’s fire position.
Folks.. it may or may not be a fake, but there is an easy explanation for the lack of folds or embossing. No doubt there is some worker at whatever agency produces this thing who is an Obama fan, and knows someone involved with the Obama campaign. That person pulled up his record, clicked “print”, and scanned and emailed it.
Sorry folks, but that is a perfectly reasonable explanation.
“The birth certificate number would not be a social security number so there would be no good reason to block it out.”
On further thought, I think it’s possible someone blacked out the certificate number due to mistaken but innocent privacy concerns. I’m awaiting Polarik’s reply to AJStrata’s criticisms.
Then he violated policy and Hawaiian law. The Hawaiian Health Department say they do not email certified birth certificates.
A plausible solution: Obama pays the ten bucks to Hawaii for a mailed certified copy of his birth certificate...if it really exists.
Fine... what is it with the notion here that government workers in quasi socialists states are above violating procedure?
Several problems with this idea.
1. The person who did this probably committed a felony in doing it.
2. If it was done this way, besides problem #1, it is not a valid BC because the number is blanked out, the seal would not be present, nor would the official stamp and signature.
3. Per #3 above, it would not have the seal or stamp. So why do some say with a lot of photo manipulation that they can see the seal.
You can’t have it both ways.
There’s any even more compelling reason which has been posited on one of the other threads here, which is that it was essential to cover that section of the certificate to hide the fact that there was NO number. They could not put in a fake number because it could then be checked for accuracy.
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