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Unacceptable behavior for a religious subject. |
Posted on 01/02/2007 11:46:14 AM PST by pjr12345
Below are all the biblical references to Mary, the mother of Jesus that I could locate. Anything beyond Scriptural references is conjecture, the philosophies of men and not God.
Would anyone care to construct a Scripturally accurate portrait of Mary, leaving behind extra-biblical sources?
Please include your Scriptural references in support of your description.
Isaiah 7:13-14
Matthew 1:13-25; 2:11, 14, 20-21; 12: 46-50; 13:54-56
Mark 3:31-35; 6:3
Luke 1:26-56; 2:1-7, 16-19, 27, 33-35, 39, 41-51; 8:19-21
John 2:1-12; 6:41-42; 19:25-26
Acts 1:14
Matthew 27:56, Mark 15:40, John 19:25-27
Well if I was going to call into question the meaning of something I'd want to look at the original language not a translation made several hundred years after the language went out of common use.
Course if I was looking to advance propaganda I'd find a translation that agreed with that propaganda and try to conceal the original texts.
The Genesis is a good reference. I covered John (although I admit a bit of sloppiness in my haste). The other two you'll need to explain. I'm pretty sure I understand your inclusion, but please elaborate for the class.
Can you elaborate for the class which Bibles we can use, and which ones we cannot, and why?
Is the Infancy Gospel of James in the acceptable Bible?
Tax-chick has put up a reference... Revelation 11:19 - 12:17. Anyone want to comment on these verses?
This is worthy of discussion!
You signed up less than two months ago for this.....what is your religious background and denomination?
What does one have to do with another, and either have to do with this thread?
I want you to Actually THINK about this question ......WHY would GOD have his SON carried and given birth by a SINNER? That absolutely makes NO SENSE! How do you reconcile your thinking with that?
http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~fisher/cgi-bin/gnt?id=03012807#h
The word there that is called out and highlighted in red is kecharitomene...which means basically to be given grace. Now let's look at the underlying Greek grammar here. First of all, it is a participle in the feminine vocative so it is referring to Mary. Secondly, it is in the perfect passive. In Greek grammar, as in English, the passive means that it was something that was done to her, not something she did herself. AND the perfect tense means that it was an action that was--and here's the important part--*completed* in the past.
So a very literal translation of this phrase caire kecaritwmenh would be something like "Hail, you woman who have been graced"...with the attendent implication that there is no more "grace-ing" to be done.
Note that this grace does *not* refer to her simply bearing the Messiah. How do we know that? Well, by looking at the rest of the passage, which is all in the future tense and indicates that the conception of the Messiah has not yet happened. "You WILL conceive (sullempse)" "The Holy Spirit WILL descend upon you (epeleusetai)."
So what does the Scripture tell us here? It tells us that Mary has been the recipient of an action of grace which *preceded* her conceiving the Lord Jesus Christ in her womb. This action, moreover, was completed and was not continuing on into the present as other examples of receiving grace in the NT (none of which are in the perfect passive--Ephesians 1:6, which is in the aorist). Not without reason, then, did Jerome and the Latin Fathers translate this phrase as gratia plena..."full of grace".
Now. If a person has received grace as a completed action to which nothing more needs to be added, then it follows that that person absolutely *cannot* in any way shape or form be under the power of sin and Satan. The only person that can fully "have been graced" is the person who is completely full of the divine life of Grace.
What religion are you? Isn't a trick question....answer it. You want people to answer you.
I'm a Christian.
It makes even less sense that God would promote remarriage, multiple partners, and children from at least 3 different parents living together.
That's basically what protestants aledge Christ family looked like.
What denomination....that isn't a trick question either.
You are free to ask any question you wish. However, pjr12345 isn't grilling people like you and others are doing to him/her. A challenge was proposed, and if you wish to discuss it, then that is great. If not, that is fine too. Your choice.
No denomination. I'm a Christian.
Are you proposing this statement as your proposed Scriptural image of Mary?
It seems there aren't any takers yet, but I'll start:
Starting with 11:19 is interesting, as it speaks briefly of the Ark of the Covenant. This would have been especially of great interest to the Jews, as the Ark had not been seen since the time of Jeremiah (II Machabees 2). Although one might have expected John to continue to elaborate on the Ark, he instead goes on to begin speaking of the Woman. This is no coincidence or oversight, I think that it's intentional. In Chapter 12, we go on to see the story of the Woman, her Child (Christ), Michael the Archangel, and the dragon (Satan). Since three of the persons mentioned are real and identifiable, it makes sense that the fourth should be also.
Note that the parallel between Mary and the Ark occurs in Luke 1, with Elizabeth's greeting and John's leaping in her womb. This should be compared to II Samuel 6, in King David's questioning of the Ark being brought before him, then later dancing before it. Thus saying that John has made the same comparison of Mary being the Ark of the New Covenant is reasonable.
I've simply been asking for a clarification on the rules. I've posted from a book which many claim as scripture, and mentions Mary quite a bit, I'd like to know why this book can or cannot be discussed.
No I'm stating that's a common Post Reformation view.
Interesting thoughts from that Greek dude. I'll have to go over to NewAdvent.org and print off the whole sermon. I can read it on the treadmill later :-).
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