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1 posted on 03/30/2020 11:31:01 AM PDT by C19fan
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On Sunday, Howard-Browne defended his decision to keep the church open in a video posted to his YouTube channel, claiming the building had the technology to eradicate any virus. Yeah right....
2 posted on 03/30/2020 11:32:19 AM PDT by C19fan
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To: C19fan

Would an imam be threatened with arrest at a mosque gathering?


3 posted on 03/30/2020 11:32:39 AM PDT by SkyDancer ( ~ Just Consider Me A Random Fact Generator ~ Eat Sleep Fly Repeat ~)
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To: C19fan

Romans 14 comes to mind——As a Christian, I disagree with what he did. God wants us to draw close to him——we can spend a month away from a Church.


4 posted on 03/30/2020 11:33:52 AM PDT by mikelets456
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To: C19fan

The right of the people to assemble shall be infringed....


6 posted on 03/30/2020 11:34:33 AM PDT by exnavy (american by birth and choice, I love this country!)
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To: C19fan

8 posted on 03/30/2020 11:37:24 AM PDT by Vendome (I've Gotta Be Me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB0ndRzaz2o)
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To: C19fan

Terrible idea, but isn’t this protected EXPLICITLY in the constitution?


9 posted on 03/30/2020 11:37:33 AM PDT by StolarStorm
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To: C19fan

Someone is jonesing for a First Amendment smackdown.

SHALL....MAKE.....NO.....LAW!!!


10 posted on 03/30/2020 11:37:38 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog (Patrick Henry would have been an anti-vaxxer)
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To: C19fan
It's not just Florida.

New York Mayor Bill deBlasio Announces Immediate Government Suspension of First Amendment…

Posted on  by 

New York Mayor Bill deBlasio is officially attempting to establish himself as the United States first totalitarian dictator by announcing a revocation of all New York City citizen rights under the first amendment.   A stunning move.

“[Government] shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

In a stunning announcement Mayor deBlasio threatens that all religious services will be forcibly closed by city authorities “permanently” if they do not comply with the established dictates of city government. WATCH:

Will de Blasio keep people from expressing their freedom of religion?

Let us be clear, the government can request, suggest and recommend that faith-based assemblies suspend their services; and in many cases those churches and religious groups may indeed choose to suspend their services. However, under no circumstance, including: war, famine or virus pandemics that could leave only a hand-full of people alive, can the government force the suspension; or punish those who refuse to comply.

Religious worship, including the assembly therein, is enshrined within the first amendment as it carries the first and ultimate essential service. There is absolutely no situation where that right can be removed.

Obviously de Blasio is surrounded by far-left sycophants and members of the totalitarian state. However, there is no legal adviser who would ever inform an official, any official, that they carry the power to supersede the preeminent constitutional right of their citizens.

Worse still is the use of the word “permanently” when de Blasio announces his unconstitutional suspension of rights. The mayor threatens to permanently close buildings?  What kind of mindset would even fathom forcing the permanent closure of houses of worship because they defy unconstitutional dictates from the state?

This decree by the New York mayor should alarm everyone.

Accept the removal of the primary right of U.S. citizens and there is no longer a country for coronavirus to infect.  This is not a slippery slope; this is akin to voluntarily jumping directly into the abyss….

 

11 posted on 03/30/2020 11:39:25 AM PDT by Bratch (“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.)
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To: C19fan

Perhaps good. Let these unconstitutional “orders” come to a head.


13 posted on 03/30/2020 11:40:53 AM PDT by libertylover (Socialism will always look good to those who think they can get something for nothing.)
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To: C19fan

He didn’t read the same script Gary Sinise did.

“In July 2017, Howard-Browne was one of 17 evangelical pastors who visited the White House to pray for and lay hands on President Donald Trump.[31] In a video several days later, Howard-Browne stated that “there is a planned attack on our president and that’s all I can tell you about right now; I know what I’m talking about, I’ve spoken to high-ranking people in the government”.[32] Howard-Browne later said that the Secret Service met with him to discover which congressman told him about the plot but he refused to say, citing pastoral privilege.[33] Howard-Browne praised God for giving America a ‘Rambo’.[34]

In March 2016, Howard-Browne wrote a Facebook post titled “Donald Trump Is the New World Order’s Worst Nightmare,” where he detailed his choice to back Trump in the election as a check against a global conspiracy to destroy America.[35]”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_Howard-Browne

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Sinise


14 posted on 03/30/2020 11:41:42 AM PDT by treetopsandroofs
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To: C19fan
State Attorney Andrew Warren

A democrat...not excusing the pastor for being stupid, but Warren's involvement probably explains a lot

34 posted on 03/30/2020 11:54:55 AM PDT by Magnum44 (My comprehensive terrorism plan: Hunt them down and kill them.)
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To: C19fan

This is the opportunity they have been waiting for! invading churches and dispersing the churchgoers for doing things that are not permitted in the New World Atheist Order.

I’ll bet my best prayer rug that they aren’t doing this for the beard and burka crowd.


39 posted on 03/30/2020 12:01:10 PM PDT by I want the USA back (The US media is the most destructive, mendacious irresponsible institution that there is.)
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To: C19fan
The right to assemble and the right worship along with prohibitions of government restrictions are the Gold Standard in our law.

Can the Governor come between a man or woman and their pastor, priest, rabbi and God?

Jim Crow laws were legally enacted in many states. These orders may or may not have been.

Quarantine of KNOWN infected and contagious individuals is not taking place here. These are projections, predictions and assumptions.

Subsequent positive test can show a likely association, but only RDA tracing can confirm A to B transmission.

I often wish people would behave differently, but there are more lethal risk taking behaviors.

Somewhat off topic - Does anyone else see a “better red than dead” attitude in some of these conversations?

45 posted on 03/30/2020 12:06:40 PM PDT by PsyCon
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To: C19fan

Rodney Howard Brown, for those who dont know, is one of the most prominent leaders of the “Holy Laughter”, “Slain in the Spirit”, “Joking in Tongues” movement.


46 posted on 03/30/2020 12:07:54 PM PDT by SeekAndFind (look at Michigan, it will)
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To: C19fan

I miss going to church too but I’m not dying to go. They might as well have been throwing snakes around.


64 posted on 03/30/2020 12:39:39 PM PDT by Midwesterner53
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To: C19fan

I guess the Constitution means nothing anymore.


67 posted on 03/30/2020 2:04:19 PM PDT by packrat35 (Pelosi is only on loan to the world from Satan. Hopefully he will soon want his baby killer back)
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To: C19fan

Did they bring back the Fugitive Slave Act?


70 posted on 03/30/2020 2:28:37 PM PDT by Leep (Everyday is Trump Day!)
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To: C19fan

Rodney Howard-Browne is a charlatan on a good day, so I have no sympathy for him. Does he still push that “holy laughter” nonsense? If he believed the Bible he would take Romans 13 a little seriously, which this proves he doesn’t. He’s no 1st amendment martyr, he’s an opportunist that should have been deported back to South Africa years ago.


71 posted on 03/30/2020 2:32:07 PM PDT by chickenlips
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To: C19fan

COVID19 Restrictions and Freedom of Religion

KrisAnne Hall, JD

A bloody path was trod to bring religious freedom to modern America. Christian martyrs and patriots secured our God-given right to Freedom of Religion with their suffering and even with their lives. Religious freedom in America is not simply a fundamental right but a foundational one. The settlements of the first American colonies were established in the flight from oppressive religious persecution and the struggle continued even on these shores. From the beating of Obadiah Holmes, the lynching of Quakers and the imprisonment of 50 Baptist preachers who were defended by a fiery attorney named Patrick Henry, religious liberty in America has been something Christians have always been willing to stand for or even to die for. This history and more gave us our First Amendment to the Constitution and its underlying principle of religious conscience which has been part of the bedrock of our Republic for more than two centuries.

The "Father of the Constitution" and fourth President James Madison wrote in 1792, "Conscience is the most sacred of all property...the exercise of that, being a natural and unalienable right. To guard a man's house as his castle, to pay public and enforce private debts with the most exact faith, can give no title to invade a man's conscience which is more sacred than his castle..."

Indeed prohibitions upon the government's authority to infringe, limit, or dictate the operation of the church have been codified in western law long before the settlement of American colonies. Many American Christians have heard of Thomas Jefferson's famous letter to the Danbury Baptists ensuring them that America would never return to a time where the government sought to dictate the operations of the church. But long before 1802, Jefferson's "wall of separation of church and state" that kept government outside the sacred walls of the church was one alluded to by King Henry I in the 1100 Charter of Liberties. Henry declared the body of the church to be free from government intrusions. Two-hundred years later, one of the tipping points in the fight that brought us Magna Carta was the crown's attempt to interfere in the free operation of the church. This charter history of our founding documents continued its development through the Grand Remonstrance of 1641 and the English Bill of Rights of 1689 under which our founders arrived in this New World. Each of these installments, which would later culminate in our founding documents; all happened amid the fight for religious liberty.

However even with the clear language of our First Amendment and the history that should inform our actions, the struggle to maintain this essential right from the control of government continues to this day. Modern lawmakers like to carve out excuses and causes for government intrusions into our inherent rights when some imagined need arises. William Pitt, The Younger warned in 1783, "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants. It is the creed of slaves." Necessity seems to always be the most powerful tool to persuade the masses into accepting these infringements. Today because of the coronavirus scare, religious liberty is facing a huge "necessity plea" in the form of limits upon assembly. At least one church has been descended upon by police and threatened with the National Guard for having more than 250 people attend.

According to the courts, a law that infringes upon a fundamental right, like Freedom of Religion, must overcome certain challenges: The law must not be arbitrary, oppressive, or unreasonable. The law must be equally applied to secular businesses and it must satisfy a qualification of being the least restrictive means necessary to accomplish a compelling governmental interest. The restrictions imposed by Governors and municipalities upon the number of people who can assemble in a private church gathering appears to fail these tests.

First, these numerical restrictions are completely arbitrary in nature. There has been no tested nor proven scientific or medical data to show us what "number" of people that congregate together are a danger to society. The number has varied from place to place and moment by moment. Somewhere it's 50, other places its 10 and there are still other variations. When politicians assign an "acceptable" number of people allowed in a private church, they are reducing our right to Freedom of Religion to a first come, first served privilege. Our first foundational document reads: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

The government deciding who can attend a service by way of a numerical limit does not demonstrate an equality of rights and ought to be seen as a per se violation of the principle of separation of church and state.

Secondly, in the current scare, these orders are not being applied equally upon secular businesses and other institutions. When arbitrary number limits are applied to a church and not to a library, post office, grocery store, or hotel gym, there is not equal application. These orders try to justify unequal application based upon the definition of "essential" services. By what authority does the government declare the church non-essential? The Church is a place where people turn for help and for comfort in a climate of fear and uncertainty. In a time of crisis, people are fearful and in need of comfort and community, more than ever before. Even people who do not attend church regularly, or perhaps never go to church, need to know that there is somewhere for them to go when they need help. Since Roman persecution of the church ended, the church has been viewed by Western civilization as an essential part of society, a refuge in time of trouble or need, a place of peace and a sanctuary for the weary, even a place of healing and provision. More salient for believers is that the Bible pointedly addresses the issue of assembling during troubled times: "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching." Hebrews 10:25

Many in the church take this as a solemn command. To deny a Christian his obligation to gather with his local called out body is to put him at odds with a fundamental tenet of the faith. For a believer in Christ there are few things as essential as the gathering of the body of Christ in the study of God's Word and worship of His Glory. As a matter of fact, the Bible teaches that since we are eternal beings in this temporary world, God's word is more essential than food. "But Jesus replied, "It is written and forever remains written, "'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes out of the mouth of God.'" Matthew 4:4

When those in government can assign a label of non-essential to the practice of religion, then government is taking a very serious and dangerous role of defining religion, which is expressly forbidden in our Bill of Rights and in a majority of our State Constitutions.

Finally, these restrictions are not reasonable and not the least restrictive means necessary. The case law used to define reasonableness in these laws are easily distinguishable. In Moore v. Draper, the Florida Supreme Court held that Moore could be quarantined and prevented from attending church because he had Tuberculosis. The court also said that once he was healthy he could no longer be reasonably or legally quarantined and prevented from attending church. The current laws restricting the number of attendees of a church are not restrictions on one unhealthy individual. They are restrictions upon a group of healthy people from attending church. The court said that such a restriction would be unreasonable. Additionally, the court did not order the entire church to be shut down to keep Moore healthy, which is exactly what these orders are trying to suggest is a reasonable and Constitutional solution.

Limiting an entire congregation of people for the safety of those who may be at risk of infection does not meet the standard of Moore, nor can it be seen as the least restrictive means necessary. The Florida case of Varholy v. Sweat is distinguishable for the same reasons as Moore. Finally, in Employment Division vs. Smith, the U.S. Supreme Court held that a "neutral, generally applicable law" restricting use of a hallucinogenic plant was not an unreasonable interference upon freedom of religion. Because the current restrictions upon church assemblies are not generally applicable to every other place where people will congregate, Smith is not controlling and proponents of church meeting bans find it no support.

Although it is argued the "protection of the public health is one of the prime duties resting upon the State" we cannot escape the reality that the FIRST prime duty of every state is codified in the Declaration of Independence: "...that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..."

There is nothing in the law or precedent to establish a blanket and arbitrary assertion of "state of emergency" as an unquestionable authority. There is nothing in law or precedent to support a restriction on the number of people who can assemble in a church, for health reasons or otherwise, as a criterion for denying the essential Right of Freedom of Religion. There is everything in history and experience that says such actions by government are unreasonable and oppressive restrictions upon the essential and inherent Right of Freedom of Religion. Rev. Jonathan Witherspoon, founder of Princeton University gave this warning: "There is not a single instance in history in which civil liberty was lost, and religious liberty preserved entire."

When Peter and the apostles were told by law not to gather, preach, lay hands on the sick for God to grant them healing or else be thrown into prison, they chose to continue to practice their faith. After they escaped from prison and were told by God to go back and assemble with the people and preach and heal, they did exactly that. And when they were questioned by the government as to why they continued to break this law, the apostles did not hesitate or make excuse, they simply said, "We ought to obey God rather than men."(Acts 5:29) True to the history that makes America great, our pastors and church members should not so easily surrender a fundamental rights so faithfully contended for by those who have gone before. Who will stand and not let the landmarks be moved?

The Unconstitutionality of a Regulatory Limit Upon Church Assembly
Legal Summary

Florida Constitution:

SECTION 1. Political power.
-- All political power is inherent in the people. The enunciation herein of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or impair others retained by the people.

SECTION 2. Basic rights. -- All natural persons, female and male alike, are equal before the law and have inalienable rights, among which are the right to enjoy and defend life and liberty, to pursue happiness, to be rewarded for industry, and to acquire, possess and protect property. No person shall be deprived of any right because of race, religion, national origin, or physical disability.

SECTION 3. Religious freedom. -- There shall be no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting or penalizing the free exercise thereof. Religious freedom shall not justify practices inconsistent with public morals, peace or safety. No revenue of the state or any political subdivision or agency thereof shall ever be taken from the public treasury directly or indirectly in aid of any church, sect, or religious denomination or in aid of any sectarian institution.

SECTION 5. Right to assemble. -- The people shall have the right peaceably to assemble, to instruct their representatives, and to petition for redress of grievances.

SECTION 9. Due process. -- No person shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law, or be twice put in jeopardy for the same offense, or be compelled in any criminal matter to be a witness against oneself.

SECTION 12. Searches and seizures. -- The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures, and against the unreasonable interception of private communications by any means, shall not be violated. No warrant shall be issued except upon probable cause, supported by affidavit, particularly describing the place or places to be searched, the person or persons, thing or things to be seized, the communication to be intercepted, and the nature of evidence to be obtained. This right shall be construed in conformity with the 4th Amendment to the United States Constitution, as interpreted by the United States Supreme Court. Articles or information obtained in violation of this right shall not be admissible in evidence if such articles or information would be inadmissible under decisions of the United States Supreme Court construing the 4th Amendment to the United States Constitution.

SECTION 21. Access to courts. -- The courts shall be open to every person for redress of any injury, and justice shall be administered without sale, denial or delay.

According to the courts, a law that infringes upon a fundamental right, like Freedom of Religion, must overcome certain challenges:The law must not be arbitrary, oppressive, or unreasonable.The law must be equally applied to secular businesses and it must satisfy the qualification of being the least restrictive means necessary to accomplish a governmental compelling interest.

1. The number of healthy people determined to be "appropriate" for a "safe" meeting has been arbitrarily established and has no basis in fact, science, or medical data.It is Arbitrary.

2. Unlike the court cases of Moore v. Draper and Varholy v. Sweat where a persons infected with specifically diagnosed diseases and were quarantined and either prevented from attending church or remained involuntarily incarcerated, the limits attempting to be imposed make it unlawful for healthy law abiding citizens to meet.Imposing arbitrary restrictions upon a large group of presumably healthy people is not the least restrictive means necessary.

3. In the case of Employment Division vs. Smith, the court held it was not a violation of the Right to Freedom of Religion to restrict Native Americans in their use of peyote because the law outlawing peyote was a "neutral, generally applicable law."However, the arbitrary restrictions upon church attendance are not "neutral, generally applicable law" as they are not applied to all secular business equally and some businesses are completely exempted with no real distinction.

4. The Restrictions are oppressive and tantamount to a regulatory taking.The government limiting of the size of the congregation to 10 people will deprive the church of the economic value of its property and the principle private use of that property.

5. Florida Statute 252.36(5)(h) Emergency management powers authorizes the Governor to act in a positive authority to keep essential businesses open.This statute only authorizes the power to "Suspend or limit the sale, dispensing, or transportation of alcoholic beverages, firearms, explosives, and combustibles."It does not authorize the Governor to negatively effect any other private business or churches.


83 posted on 03/30/2020 4:24:07 PM PDT by Brown Deer (America First!)
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