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Why Vladimir Putin is angry at Poland
BBC ^ | 26 Dec 2019 | Vitaly Shevchenko

Posted on 12/27/2019 12:07:48 PM PST by CondoleezzaProtege

As top Russian officials were summing up the results of 2019, one subject stood out in President Vladimir Putin's pronouncements: Poland and its role in World War Two.

Over the past seven days, he mentioned it no fewer than five times at key meetings - some of which had little to do with history or even foreign policy. In an unusual outburst at a Defence Ministry board on 24 December, he described the Polish ambassador to Nazi Germany as "scum and an anti-Semite pig".

Two hours later, he brought the subject up again at a meeting with parliamentary leaders. State Duma speaker Vyacheslav Volodin thanked Putin and demanded an apology from Poland.

Vladimir Putin's criticism of Poland follows a European Parliament resolution which blames both the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany for the outbreak of World War Two.

The USSR's victory in World War Two is one of the most venerated pillars of state ideology, and more than 70 years on it is still celebrated with much fanfare and bombast every year. It is also a key way for President Putin to legitimise himself and his expansionist foreign policy as a successor to the Soviet empire. So the Kremlin sees any criticism of what is known in Russia as the Great Victory as an attack on itself.

None of which is, of course, reason enough for Poland to accept the accusations, which it has described as "false narratives".

They are a highly sensitive subject in Poland, which outlawed suggestions of complicity in Nazi war crimes in 2018. Following an outcry, the law was softened to make them a civil, not a criminal offence.

(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.com ...


TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: europeanunion; nato; poland; putin; russia; vladimirputin; vladtheimploder; wwii
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To: NorseViking

Motivation


41 posted on 12/27/2019 1:07:10 PM PST by Stosh
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To: dfwgator

Of course not, but going to Czechoslovakia with the Nazis wasn’t right.


42 posted on 12/27/2019 1:07:47 PM PST by NorseViking
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To: NorseViking
I confess, I was not a fan of the Endecja regime after Piłsudski passed away. It's one of the great "What Ifs" as to if Piłsudski had made it to 1939. Hitler actually greatly admired Piłsudski, even attended a memorial service for Piłsudski. And in 1939, when the Nazis entered Krakow, Hitler ordered an Honor Guard to stand at Piłsudski's tomb.
43 posted on 12/27/2019 1:08:09 PM PST by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: NorseViking

“US forces were late to the party...”

What kind of revisionist history are you propagating? The US wasn’t even involved in the European conflict when Paris was captured. You make it sound like the US intentional withheld support from France, while you attempt to absolve Russia for doing exactly that.


44 posted on 12/27/2019 1:09:03 PM PST by kosciusko51
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To: NorseViking

Oh boy, that canard always comes up.

There was no cooperation there. The Nazis couldn’t care less what Poland did there. And yes, the Czechs actually stole that region in 1920, when Poland was, you know, busy saving the rest of the continent from Bolshevism.

Not saying Poland was right to do it, but this notion that it was in cooperation with the Nazis is disingenuous at best.


45 posted on 12/27/2019 1:10:13 PM PST by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: NorseViking

It’s all based on the idea that Soviets intended on dominating Poland after the war.

Katyn was certainly part of that, by eliminating the best of the Polish officer class.


46 posted on 12/27/2019 1:12:17 PM PST by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: Stosh

I think I explained the motivation just right. Wars are fought for national interests above all. Early involvement in Warsaw uprising was contrary to the Soviet interest. Was it moral or not is another question but they probably believed British-controlled Poland might be uncomfortable to have in the rear. I am saying it without taking sides right now.


47 posted on 12/27/2019 1:12:23 PM PST by NorseViking
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To: colorado tanker

The annexation of Austria was more than a year before that pact in March 1938. Czechoslovakia was in Mar, 39.

A pact signed in August 1939 did not “set off WWII”.


48 posted on 12/27/2019 1:12:25 PM PST by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: NorseViking

And besides at that point, for all intents and purposes, Czechoslovakia was no longer a viable nation.


49 posted on 12/27/2019 1:14:18 PM PST by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: NorseViking
Was it moral or not is another question but they probably believed British-controlled Poland might be uncomfortable to have in the rear. I am saying it without taking sides right now.

That was the Nazi justification for invading the neutral Netherlands. "If we don't take it, the Brits will."

50 posted on 12/27/2019 1:15:25 PM PST by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: Mariner
I disagree. Hitler knew he could only get Poland by starting a war; the Allies would not hand it over like they had with Czechoslovakia. And he had to be sure of no Russian opposition.

As expected, the Allies did declare war when Hitler invaded Poland as they had refrained from doing in reaction to his other land grabs.

That said, it is an interesting question whether the war could have been headed off had the Allies stopped appeasing Hitler at an earlier date.

51 posted on 12/27/2019 1:19:22 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: dfwgator

We are now treading on relative territory. The Czech very much might have stolen Szczecin from Poland in 1920 but the Soviets might say Poland stolen the Molotov-Ribbentrop areas from Ukraine in 1920 too. That is how it works. We are either respecting established borders or not.
Someone mentioned here that Russia has stolen Crimea and might steal Narva but both Narva and Crimea are historically Russian based on the same logic you apply to Szczecin recognizing it as historically Polish although established borders say otherwise.


52 posted on 12/27/2019 1:20:45 PM PST by NorseViking
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To: NorseViking

After WWI these borders were new and confusing, they were imposed upon these peoples by the French and the British.


53 posted on 12/27/2019 1:22:02 PM PST by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: colorado tanker

Clemenza was right...

“You know, you gotta stop them at the beginning. Like they should have stopped Hitler at Munich, they should never let him get away with that, they was just asking for trouble.”


54 posted on 12/27/2019 1:23:35 PM PST by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: NorseViking

Besides it was Zaolzie, not Szczecin.


55 posted on 12/27/2019 1:25:11 PM PST by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: NorseViking

These Vikings, apparently they are expanding to Moscow, again.


56 posted on 12/27/2019 1:25:28 PM PST by Grzegorz 246
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To: CondoleezzaProtege

In a nutshell, this thread demonstrates everything wrong with the European mentality. They are getting wrapped around the axle of events that happened 70-80 years ago. And they are just as happy to get bitterly angry about insults and offenses from 1304 or whenever.

Their petty smallness is why they will never achieve true greatness no matter what political union like the EU they cobble together. They are a small people not fit to shine the shoes of a true American.


57 posted on 12/27/2019 1:25:49 PM PST by DesertRhino (Dog is man's best friend, and moslems hate dogs. Add that up. ....)
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To: dfwgator

“”””And besides at that point, for all intents and purposes, Czechoslovakia was no longer a viable nation.””””

That’s 100% true but how do you think Stalin and Hitler viewed Poland?

“”””That was the Nazi justification for invading the neutral Netherlands. “If we don’t take it, the Brits will.””””

Sorry, but it is non-sequitur. We are now arguing the Soviet inaction, not their action.
You are rightfully blaming the Nazi for aggression against Netherlands based on such reasoning. It was a hypocricy because the Brits didn’t attack and if they did the Brits were to blame.

Non-intervention in Warsaw uprising is an act or more accurately non-act of the whole different matter. I am sure you understand what I mean.


58 posted on 12/27/2019 1:30:32 PM PST by NorseViking
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To: dfwgator

Sorry, Zaolzie, you are right.


59 posted on 12/27/2019 1:31:20 PM PST by NorseViking
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To: colorado tanker

>>were largely responsible for the defeat of the Nazis on the ground.

While they no doubt took the casualties, they could never have done it without U.S. logistic support.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/pearl/www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6315/lend.html

http://citizensnewswire.org/files/mjd.pdf


60 posted on 12/27/2019 1:31:40 PM PST by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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