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I love and support President Trump, he needs to order a full investigation of the proof that there is more than one shooter and location.
1 posted on 10/10/2017 5:08:12 AM PDT by The_Republic_Of_Maine
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To: The_Republic_Of_Maine

what is not right?


2 posted on 10/10/2017 5:15:56 AM PDT by TexasGator (Z)
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To: The_Republic_Of_Maine

How do investigators confuse something as rudimentary as a criminal timeline? It now appears (subject to further change) that an active shooter, and his exact location, was known 5 minutes before he fired on the crowd. There was no police intervention into that room until for app. 80 minutes after the hotel security guard was shot, and app. 75 minutes after he opened up on the crowd at the concert. What became of the open door Campos, the security guard, was checking on before he was shot? Whose room was it? Where was that door located relative to shooter? And 200 rds were fired into the hallway? Pictures of the hallway would help.


3 posted on 10/10/2017 5:21:30 AM PDT by JonPreston
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To: The_Republic_Of_Maine
proof that there is more than one shooter and location.

what proof?

4 posted on 10/10/2017 5:31:04 AM PDT by plain talk
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To: The_Republic_Of_Maine
As of yesterday, they still deny there was a 2nd shooter involved. Based on the laws of physics this guy could not only tell you that there was more than one, he could also pinpoint the location.

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5 posted on 10/10/2017 5:31:14 AM PDT by Karl Spooner
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To: The_Republic_Of_Maine
I love and support President Trump, he needs to order a full investigation of the proof that there is more than one shooter and location.

Anyone with common sense can recognize there isn't another shooter. There is no logical evidence that supports more than one shooter.
6 posted on 10/10/2017 5:41:59 AM PDT by TexasGunLover ("Either you're with us or you're with the terrorists."-- President George W. Bush)
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To: The_Republic_Of_Maine
Acoustic echo which closely follows the original firing pattern with less intensity. This proves that in the absence of evidence people will just make stuff up.
12 posted on 10/10/2017 6:08:53 AM PDT by xander (TRUMPing nonsense with common sense)
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To: The_Republic_Of_Maine

It’s just a small part of the puzzle, but why was a camera on the food cart outside the room?

It could be carted away at any time (and discovered as soon as the tray was cleared off).

Can’t help but wonder about that.


23 posted on 10/10/2017 6:56:43 AM PDT by pax_et_bonum (Never Forget the SEALs of Extortion 17 - and God Bless The United States of America.)
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To: The_Republic_Of_Maine

I have posted this before, but I will post it again because to me it is one of the biggest pieces of physical evidence to point to the fact that there had to be at least one other shooter - probably on the ground.

The shooter was on the 32nd floor of a building, shooting out of a window at night into a target area 350 +/- yards away. He was also allegedly using a bump-fire stock with an AR15 in either .223 or .308.

In what amounts to perfect conditions, which I define as: A perfectly still rifle in a bench or shooters rest, at 0 feet sea level, at a 0 degree angle, with a barometric pressure of 29.92 Hg, at 59 degrees F, and a relative humidity of 50% - A 70 grain Remington .223 bullet will travel for .5ms and drop 21 inches. When it leaves the barrel it will have a velocity of 2850 fps and an energy of 1263 lbf. When it hits the target area, it will have a velocity of 2050 fps and an energy of 650 lbf.

In the same conditions, a 168 grain Winchester .308 bullet will travel for .4 ms and drop 22 inches. When it leaves the barrel it will have a velocity of 2700 fps and an energy of 2720 lbf. When it hits the target area, it will have a velocity of 2000 fps and an energy of 1600 lbf.

In either case, the energy of the bullet at the point of impact could be lethal - with the .308 more than twice that of the .223. However, what I’m more interested in is the fact that many people reported either seeing someone shot multiple times, or being shot multiple times. This is probably the most-reported example: http://www.ktuu.com/content/news/Las-Vegas-victim-to-return-home-to-North-Pole-449511183.html

At Paddock’s shooting angle (-30 degrees which is an estimate based on the height of the floor and distance to the middle of the venue) and in perfect conditions with a perfectly still weapon - during its flight to the target area, the .223 would have 11 inches of drop and the .308 would have 17. Drop is the effect of gravity pulling down on the projectile. The effect *is* lessened due the negative angle. All other calculations remain the same.

Our alleged shooter is using ARs with bump-fire stocks on what amounts to full auto for ten second plus bursts. The barrel of the gun is going to be moving around when he is doing this - pretty much every round. If you don’t believe this, Google for videos of it. And watch a bunch of them. The barrel moves around a lot... What’s that going to do? It’s going to change the angle *and* the direction - because as I said above, my calculations are based on a *perfectly still* weapon on a bench or rest at a -30 degree shooting angle. A bump stock used the way you can hear it in the videos will cause the barrel of the weapon to move a matter of a few inches back and forth and up and down. That will make one bullet leave the barrel at a -32 degree angle and the next one to leave at a -28 degree angle and the next to leave at a -34 degree angle and so on - and that’s not taking into account the side-to-side movement of the barrel. In short distances, this doesn’t matter much - but the farther away the weapon is, the more the effect is amplified.

At that distance - even in perfect conditions - every single round is going to have a trajectory that varies from every other round by a matter of *feet* - not inches.

The chances of one person being hit twice in the chest and once in the arm by an AR firing either caliber using a bump stock at that rate of fire, on ten-second plus bursts from the 32nd floor of that hotel, 350 +/- yards away, at night, are nearly zero. Even if the victim was standing perfectly still and even if the contention is that he fell inside the target area and was supposedly hit three *separate* times, the odds are still long. And that’s not what his friend said the night of the shooting. He was shot three times instantaneously and said aloud “I’ve been hit.” Then he went down and his friend covered him. There was no - “...he was hit and then we went down and he got hit again and then hit again later...”

Someone was closer - even on the ground somewhere - shooting a .223 or .308 AR on three-shot bursts - likely suppressed.

Could Paddock still be shooting from the hotel? Sure - but the odds based on physics as shown above - show that he could not have been the only one.


32 posted on 10/10/2017 7:57:38 AM PDT by DBG8489
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