Posted on 07/27/2015 11:03:50 AM PDT by tbw2
I really feel for you ... you are clearly in a den of vipers and someone has it out for you.
Sorry I keep coming back to this thread but the responses from Freepers is fascinating, especially the baiting of you because of your values.
Good luck.
:)
Is this done anonymously? Obviously your responses were not. Even so, why would any company allow this, or (sorry, not ragging on you as I thing your morals and heart were in the right place) why would anyone with common sense choose to participate?
At every company I’ve ever worked for where they’ve had a company intranet or even something like a SharePoint site, content is strictly controlled and limited and moderated and only for things pertaining to company business - company announcements, or internal information such as links to IT docs such as “how to program your office phone for out of office messages”, “how to order business cards”, etc., HR information like various HR forms, HR policies, internal job postings or links to benefit providers / insurance carriers; in the case of SharePoint or Box - shared documents for project teams and restricted only to those on that project team only project related docs.
Where I currently work, we don’t even allow employees to post flyers on the cafeteria bulletin board; things like posts for personal items they want to sell, solicitations for charitable causes, “walk-a-thons”, Girl Scout Cookies sign-up sheets, unless it has a literal stamp of approval from HR. And we deny just as much as we approve - it can’t be for or to promote a for-profit business (Tupperware, Avon, Longerburger Baskets, jewelry book sales, etc.) or of a “dubious” charitable cause or purpose, or to promote your Church, Mosque, Hindu Temple….or for any political candidates or causes. We do sometimes allow flyers for church sponsored fundraisers but for only something along the lines of raising funds for a kid with cancer, but the kid must be from our local community and the employee must have some sort of personal relationship with family and the flyer has to state that 100% of any contributions goes to the family or a registered charity for that purpose only and can’t have overtly religious undertones. i.e. - proselytizing.
And just so everyone knows, not long ago, we denied a flyer that one of our employees who is Hindu wanted to post about a speech and book signing at his Hindu temple by some Hindu author. Part of the proceeds from the book sale was allegedly going to some charity, but that didn’t pass our policy as most of % of the book sales were for the author’s own profit and it was promoting Hinduism, the small % allegedly being donated to a charity was only secondary.
”the instant message conversation”
Again, why are employees engaging in personal conversations and soliciting advice on personal matters on company time using company resources? Why is this company allowing it all? In all companies where I’ve ever worked, using IM’s and using company email or computers and internet access for personal matters was strictly forbidden and against our Electronic Communications and Internet Usage policies.
I totally get your frustrations in that your opinions and advice are being singled out by your company’s PC Police while other PC POV’s are not and even that your company is promoting certain PC causes and stifling opposing views. I get that. I really do. It is unfair. But IMO, from someone with over 30 years in HR, that is the result of a very bad and poorly enforced company policy to begin with. You might have a case for a labor attorney, but it’s probably not worth the additional grief and $ it will cost you. My advice is don’t participate, don’t engage in the personal advice seeking, keep your views to yourself while on company time, in the meantime, do the very best job you can possibly do and starting looking for another job with a company more competently managed and do it ASAP.
I will also echo what ozarkgirl said; “co-workers are not "friends", they are co-workers.” Don’t fall into the trap that just because you have a good work relationship with a co-worker, that they are your friend. I can’t tell you how many people I’ve worked with over the years who pretended to be my BBF at work, who would also stab in the back in a NY minute given the chance, or once I left the company for another job, never wanted anything to do with me again. Not all, but many. I am on FB, mostly to keep touch with “real life” friends and relatives, many now living out of state. But I have my FB preferences set up so that only my friends or those I select can see my posts. I also make it a personal policy, never, ever to have any current co-workers as FB friends. If I get a request, I politely decline.
I will also relate a story about a woman who at a previous job, which was not in an HR dept, was my direct report. She had a lot of performance issues, i.e. really not performing her job up to standards but also very erratic in how she performed her job – one day doing an OK job, then the next making inexplicable mistakes as if it was her first day on the job along with attendance issues. And she also had issues with other employees, sometimes saying odd and rather disjointed and disturbing things to them and acting in other rather bizarre manners with other co-workers, suddenly shouting at them for no apparent reason one minute and then inviting them to come to dinner at her house the next, including one time just after a company meeting, “sexually harassing” the owner of the company by grinding up against him in a very suggestive way and calling him a “sexy beast”. People who saw it were shocked and dumbfounded and offended, live alone the owner of the company. He was livid.
He was about to fire her on the spot but I and the HR manager decided to have the formal “you were given your last chance” meeting and give her final written reprimand as this wasn’t her first time being written up and being “counseled”. We wanted to make sure we had sufficient documentation and cause to fire her, which we were anticipating doing at that meeting since we also anticipated that she would not react well, even to the point we had one of young guys in our office stand outside the meeting room in case she became violent.
During the meeting in which our HR manager also was present for, we kept things very professional and factual and provided her with her prior and signed warnings including her last chance written warning and the specifics of her most recent issues, the performance and attendance issues and her most recent actions – “molesting the boss” and explained exactly how and why they violated what company policy and let her know why this was resulting in her termination.
She then started talking and rambling on about how she was “bi-polar” and “sometimes” was on meds, how she was a victim of incest – her father had molested her and how her husband was an alcoholic, her one son had come “out” and her daughter had become a Wiccan or a Goth or just dressed weird – it was hard to tell what she was really talking about.
The HR manager and I stopped her from continuing this line of conversation. First of all, while we both felt sorry and sympathized with her messed up life, we didn’t want to hear about her personal issues, especially her claim of being bi-polar as we were concerned that she might use it in a wrongful termination suit – she was probably “crazy” but not necessarily stupid. But secondly we also pointed out to her that the company had a free and strictly confidential EAP program and if she was having at home personal issues that impacted her job performance, that was the proper place to address it, and that in a prior meeting, we had even asked her to get a referral for counseling with the EAP and that she had never followed through.
At the end of the day, talking about sensitive personal issues with your co-workers or your boss at work or giving counseling to them, is a very, very bad idea all around.
Agree with EVERYTHING you wrote. Thanks for the ping.
How do you phrase it and how do they respond?
I take it she had to sign something acknowledging she's read it and been counseled. What is your recourse if the counseled person refuses to sign?
Pardon my bad news but this is NOT something to mess around with.
HR is NOT your friend and hasn’t been for almost 20 years.
It is an engine to protect the company and push an agenda.
I nearly got fired 10 years ago for doing something much, much less disruptive than what you document.
You are already in deep trouble...don’t make it worse.
Get some professional legal help and GO TO GROUND.
”How do you phrase it and how do they respond?”
Since I work in my company's HR department and manage payroll and compensation, I have a handy out. Even though it’s not against company policy, I typically say something like, “Thanks for the invitation and I really appreciate it, but given the sensitive nature of my job here at *, it is not really a “best practice” or good idea for either of us professionally.” And I’ve never gotten a negative reaction taking this route.
I’ve “freinded” or been “freinded” by some former-co-workers and depending on our past working relationship or if they are someone who I might want to contact if I’m networking for a new job or visa versa, sometimes I will accept. But I really try to keep the number of people on FB to a minimum.
See post # 66.
”I take it she had to sign something acknowledging she's read it and been counseled. What is your recourse if the counseled person refuses to sign?”
If it is an incremental and not a final written warning resulting in a termination, of course we ask the employee to sign the doc and we also provide them with ample space where they write their own comment, even if it is in disagreement with the warning or a negative comment. But they have to do it then and there, not take the doc home with them and stew over it for days and weeks. They are also told they can have further conversations with their HR rep if they do not feel comfortable discussing with their direct manager or their next line manager, and if they feel they’ve been treated unfairly and not comfortable discussing with anyone at the local plant, in the case of my present company, there is an independently monitored hot line they can call with referrals sent to corporate HR. It is the same hotline employees can call under our “whistle blowers” policy.
At my company and several others I’ve worked for over the years, we give them some opportunity to voice their concerns and voice their disagreement with the warning or disciplinary action or enforcement of policy(s) both verbally and in writing and in some cases I’ve seen employees comment that they are not in disagreement and are motivated to correct the problem or behavior. But when it comes to the point of a face to face meeting with a last chance written warning, you really want to keep it factual and only pertaining to the last and most recent issue(s) at hand and not a long “bitch fest” from either side of the table that degrades into personal arguments and or insults unrelated to work and the work issues or things that happened years ago. And a “good” and competent and fair HR person will keep things under control and not allow the conversation to drift off and off topic by either the manger or the employee.
And we provide them with a copy of the warning document. If they refuse to sign (or refuse to take a copy), they refuse to sign and that alone will not result in termination, but then the HR person will note such and the manager or 3rd person/witness like a higher level manager in attendance at the meeting, depending on the severity, will sign as a witnesses that the employee refused to sign and or was offered a copy of the warning and that the employee refused to take it. FWIW - a refusal to sign rather than making a comment in their defense, is usually a sign that this employee will be back for another meeting very soon and not in a good way – probably for a final one.
A simple verbal one on one meeting between a manager or supervisor and an employee doesn’t require a signed doc, but we ask the manager to complete a “memo of conversation”. That would be something along the lines of documenting what was said: “X called out at the last minute for the 3rd time this month (or was more than 15 minutes late – didn’t follow a SOP or WI resulting in a QA line stoppage or product loss, etc) and I advised X that he/she was at 4 attendance points (or whatever the issue was) and advised X that further (whatever) would next result in a written warning and up to or including a final written warning resulting in termination” with the date and time of the conversation and the manger’s signature and if relevant, what the employee said in response and hopefully, the manager documents the conversation accurately. We in HR also like to see the manager provide the employee with a copy of the policy or SOP or WI to the employee and if it is sincerely a case of the employee really trying to do a good job in the case of a QA or WI issue, we will often provide them with some additional training, if warranted.
However, when it’s a final meeting that is resulting in the employee’s termination (and I really hate those), we try to keep it rather short and sweet. Just the facts of what last transpired and why (and if given previous warnings) it was resulting in their termination. The last thing you want to do is engage them in a long drawn out conversation that could escalate into a bad or volatile or even violent situation or make them sign any document right then and there. We give them a letter signed by their manager and by HR as to their termination and a package for their benefits continuation (COBRA) and even in some cases, if it is performance related and not flagrant policy violation(s) and if they’ve been with the company for more than a year, we will give them a severance package commensurate with the number of years they’ve been with the company and that helps to some degree “soften the blow”.
Severance agreements are not required to be signed at the termination meeting and we actually don’t want the terminated employee to sign on the spot as typically, and depending on the state, they actually have 7-14 days to sign and return with along with a clause that advises the employee to seek the advice of legal counsel before signing as many severance agreements have a “hold harmless clause” and then often a 7 day revocation period after signing. Unless the termination is for “willful” and or “egregious misconduct” the termination letter and severance agreement will also advise them of their “rights” to file for unemployment but not necessarily guarantee that they will qualify for benefits.
Well said.
Thanks for all the info! Seems the workplace has become a landmine field in the past few decades and so very toxic.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.