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There Is No ‘Proper English’: Ignore grammar scolds. If people say it, it’s the right way to speak
Wall Street Journal ^ | 03/17/2015 | OLIVER KAMM

Posted on 03/17/2015 7:37:26 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

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To: JRandomFreeper

“There is wiggle room for non-formal communications, but if you can’t be understood, your point doesn’t matter.”

That’s basically the point. Precise communication is essential to any sort of civilization. If I don’t really understand what “Joe” is saying, how can I meaningfully respond.


61 posted on 03/17/2015 8:17:11 PM PDT by JimSEA
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To: SeekAndFind
In all seriousness, the problem is that when adolescents are incapable of finding the words to properly express the increasingly more complex and complicated feelings and emotions that they are newly experiencing, they get frustrated and often turn to violence against each other instead.

-PJ

62 posted on 03/17/2015 8:19:25 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (If you are the Posterity of We the People, then you are a Natural Born Citizen.)
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To: JimSEA
English will NEVER be precise. Conservative can be made to see that what they are doing isn't working on communications, and quit worrying about who is to 'blame'.

Communication is the first stage of teaching. Conservatives aren't communicating, regardless of who conservative think is to blame.

/johnny

63 posted on 03/17/2015 8:20:56 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper
Strunk & White are a whole different ball game from American Psychological Association citation and format style.
64 posted on 03/17/2015 8:23:47 PM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Proud Infidel, Gun Nut, Religious Fanatic and Freedom Fiend)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Its clear you could care less.


65 posted on 03/17/2015 8:27:12 PM PDT by FredZarguna (Hail Hydra!)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear
American Press Association? Yep. Formal communications wants the first use of an acronym spelled out.

The line between formal and informal communications is being slowly redefined by the recent emergence of e-mail and texting.

New mindset for everyone. Adapt and overcome. I'm trying. ;)

/johnny

66 posted on 03/17/2015 8:28:04 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (gone Galt)
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To: SeekAndFind; Harmless Teddy Bear

“Irregardless” is also in the dictionary. That doesn’t mean it’s a word, and it doesn’t mean you should use it.


67 posted on 03/17/2015 8:30:07 PM PDT by FredZarguna (Hail Hydra!)
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To: ClearCase_guy

[Irregardless of this writers opinion, unproper usage literally makes my head explode]

I think you hit four beauties.
And beauty spelled phonetically is: B U T.


68 posted on 03/17/2015 8:43:49 PM PDT by Islander2 (Some of us are here because we are not all there.)
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To: FredZarguna
Who sets those rules? Who is authorized? Who has set those rules over the centuries before printing?

France has a 'language police'. French used to be the international language. No more. Dialects of English have taken over for a reason.

I know that if what I'm doing isn't working, it is incumbent on me to not automatically assume the other guy is wrong and needs to majikally get fixed before what I doing works.

That's what the GOP-E is trying to do, and it ain't working.

/johnny

69 posted on 03/17/2015 8:44:11 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (gone Galt)
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To: SeekAndFind
>>Strunk & White’s “Elements of Style”<<

Aahh, almost as important to a composition as was your "Funk & Wagnall's." Those, indeed, were the days!

70 posted on 03/17/2015 8:46:06 PM PDT by Grateful2God (Because no word shall be impossible with God. And Mary said: Behold the handmaid of the Lord...)
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To: JRandomFreeper

American Psychological Association.:)
Chapter 3 of the sixth edition is fun.

New heading structure established to simplify retrieval and ease reading comprehension.
Fully revised guidelines on reducing bias in language.
New section on historical and interpretive inaccuracies in language.
Use of “subjects” vs. “participants” revisited, with “subjects” fully accepted for use.
Gender—guidelines for avoiding bias updated (e.g., question the use of such constructions as “opposite” sex).
Definitions and preferred usage for terms “transsexual” and “transgender” updated.
Race—avoid language that reifies race, avoid use of “minority” for “non-White”.
New sentence added for those of Middle Eastern descent.


71 posted on 03/17/2015 8:46:32 PM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Proud Infidel, Gun Nut, Religious Fanatic and Freedom Fiend)
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To: SeekAndFind
The purity of the English language is under assault.

That is the $$ takeaway from the article.

It assumes there is ONE english language, and there never has been. It has always been a collection of dialects, and there can be no ONE rule. Sometimes, like after printing, things get much more aligned, but I can think of over 50 different spellings for 'church' or 'kirk' or any variation right before printing became common.

/johnny

72 posted on 03/17/2015 8:49:04 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (gone Galt)
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To: SeekAndFind
Vocabulary is vital to thinking.

A standard vocabulary is vital to communication.

You shouldn't have to say "dooya know whut I mean" after every 3 or 4 words.

Ditto for "Whutyoosay"?

73 posted on 03/17/2015 8:53:00 PM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not A Matter of Opinion)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear
That had NOTHING to do with this same exact argument hundreds of years ago. And this argument has gone on since before printing started.

You and I aren't going to solve it. ;)

Best we can do is figure out if we are communicating effectively, and adjust as required.

Standard American English worked fairly well for decades, but times are changing. and this dialect won't live forever. Any more than Chaucer's did.

/johnny

74 posted on 03/17/2015 9:01:01 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (gone Galt)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear

And if riting used the rules as rithmetic, you would be correct


75 posted on 03/17/2015 9:05:09 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (Television: Teacher, Mother, Secret Lover)
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To: JRandomFreeper
That had NOTHING to do with this same exact argument hundreds of years ago.

But today it is relevant because that is how they are being taught to write in college.

If Bacon is correct about writing makes an exact man and these are the standards used it is no wonder that what is coming out of the young skulls full of mush is gobbledygook.

You and I aren't going to solve it. ;)

True. Sad isn't it?

76 posted on 03/17/2015 9:09:59 PM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Proud Infidel, Gun Nut, Religious Fanatic and Freedom Fiend)
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To: SeekAndFind
The media delight in publicizing ostensibly incorrect usage.

Huh. From most news stories I read, the the media delights in printing their own incorrect grammar.
77 posted on 03/17/2015 9:10:30 PM PDT by Svartalfiar
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear
Sad isn't it?

Nope. It makes me glad that I'm not a language rigidist that thinks there is only ONE dialect of English, and can be flexible enough to communicate at the level of the intended audience.

Beats wringing hands and not doing anything meaningful.

RR was much better spoken (in my opinion) privately than he was publically, but he was known as the great communicator. Conservatives have to get back to that, and teach the ignorant.

/johnny

78 posted on 03/17/2015 9:13:45 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (gone Galt)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear
It's called "negative concord" cf. Wikipeida Double negative

"Ther nas no man no wher so vertuous" ("There never was no man nowhere so virtuous"). - Chaucer

... and if Chaucer ain't English, I don't know what!

79 posted on 03/17/2015 9:16:21 PM PDT by dr_lew
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To: Svartalfiar
There is no excuse for public news outlets to not use standards and standard american english here in the US.

Personally, I think most of the editors were killed and eaten in the tragic editorial room massacre of the '80s. ;)

/johnny

80 posted on 03/17/2015 9:16:33 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (gone Galt)
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