Posted on 10/12/2014 7:29:40 PM PDT by CovenBuster
My dog Jazz recently had 3 seizures. They were about 1 to 2 weeks apart, and each time they occurred at the same time each morning (4:50 a.m.). They were brief in duration, lasting only about a minute or two (although it seemed like an eternity). Each time she lost control of her bladder. Afterward, she seemed dazed and bewildered for a few minutes, then she bounced back as if nothing had happened.
She's diabetic, but any connection with the diabetes has been ruled out by the vet.
I know there are dogs who live with seizures, and this may end up being the case with my dog. However, I want to try to keep them at bay as much as is humanly possible.
The other day I was at the vet inquiring about a particular flea control product. The vet tech named a product but said that it couldn't be given to dogs who were prone to seizures. That got me to thinking that maybe their HeartGard (ivermectin) could be the culprit. (We don't usually have to fight fleas, but there have been a jillion #$@& feral cats hanging around my property recently. One by one, they're being trapped and taken away.) After the vet tech mentioned the seizure side effect of the flea treatment, I got to thinking that it might be possible that the heartworm meds could be suspect. Sure enough, I'm seeing warnings to that effect online.
My dogs are 10-year-old poodles. They're half sisters, so they do share some genes. However, the other one doesn't seem to have a problem with the ivermectin products. Still, I can't help wondering if it's just a matter of time after reading some of the online accounts. Now I'm scared to give Jazz her heartworm meds this month, and because we've had the worst summer for mosquitoes in recent memory, I'm scared not to.
I can't say that I totally trust the vet to be square with me seeing as how they never mentioned anything about the possibility of HeartGard as the culprit.
I was hoping to tap into the experiences and thoughts of some of my FRiends on the doggie ping list. Has anyone gone through this or known anyone who has? Can you add any information, recommendations, etc? Thanks to the Obama economy, I'm on a very, very tight budget, so I can't be testing her for every possibility. I'm very scared and don't know what to do as it will be time for her HeartGard in a week or so.
My dog was on phenobarbitol to control his seizures. It worked quite well.
And it’s a little hard to tell if a dopey dog was dopier due to the dope.
Golden Retrievers are prone to epilepsy. My 6 yr old has been on phenobarb for 2 years to control them, but a breakthrough seizure happens now and then. Usually occur when he jerks awake from napping in the evening, the worse he ever had was 4 hour grand mal at 4 in the morning. Almost lost him with that one. I never equated him having a seizure with flea killer liquid until I used a popular once a month liquid that I just squeezed a tiny bit down his back once. He was foaming at the mouth and in a seizure within a few hours. I treat his ticks and trouble spots with a puppy spray by spot applying the liquid with a q-tip now. No collars, sprays or liquid in broad coverage applications anymore.
I would never contradict you on any dog issue, but heartworm prevention is dependent on geography, among other things.
My sister is a mega-dog lover and has several, along with numerous other animals. She and her husband own a horse farm in central Florida.
Where she lives, it's not a question of if a dog gets heartworms; it's when. All untreated dogs who spend even minimal time outdoors get heartworms sooner or later, and it's usually sooner. She treats all of her dogs year round.
Where I live (Kentucky), heartworms are somewhat common, but a dog that spends most of its time indoors may be able to forego heartworm treatment. My dog spends a fair amount of time outdoors and I live near a creek, so I give her a preventive during the warm weather months but not in the winter. Heartworms, as I'm sure you know but others may not, are mosquito borne.
BTW, ivermectin should never be given to collies. I don't know why, but my vet confirmed that. I don't know if that includes Border Collies--which is what I have--but to play it safe, I don't give it to my dog.
BTW, heartworm preventives work backwards, not forwards. They get rid of any heartworms the dog may have picked up over the last 30 days or so., but will not prevent the dog from picking up the parasite in the month going forwards.
That's my understanding of the issue, anyway.
You don’t know how I wish I could, but ObamaCare has devastated my life/finances. I lost my job immediately after the SCOTUS decision saved ObamaCare as did many others. (Now the doors of my previous employer are struggling to stay open, and they’ve now set a hard deadline for December. If they can’t turn it around by the deadline, 31 years of serving the community will become history.)
I thought I’d be employed by now, but I’ve learned a hard lesson as to just how unmarketable us older chicks are. I didn’t really want to start drawing Social Security for a few more years, but being unceremoniously “retired” at my advanced age, I was forced to. I’m scratching by, making sure I have $ to buy her diabetic dog food, insulin and syringes. Thank the Lord that her dosage is tiny. A vial lasts about 6 months. And thank God for Walmart who has their own generic that costs 1/4 of what the other places charge for the brand name Humulin N.
Trust me. It’s not for lack of wanting to get all the proper tests done. If I were employed, I’d do without so that I could get her tested. My dogs are my only family, and I’d walk on hot coals if it would improve things for them. But I really need to keep a roof over their heads — although they’d probably be just as pleased to be a member of our little pack if we sold the house and lived in a minivan ... which is just one more reason why I love dogs!
Thanks for your input.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! I really needed that. I was just this side of breaking out in tears and then I scrolled down and saw that. Literally LOL’d!
Ten isn’t old for a toy or miniature poodle. Had one to live until 19. Bigger the dog, shorter the life.
True. Relatively speaking, she’s far “younger” than a medium or large dog her age. However, she’s still considered a senior dog. I do pray that they both live to a ripe old age. I’d settle for 20 — and healthy.
I assumed they were Standards. Guess I could be wrong.
But even so, 10yo is plenty “mature” for any dog, to gain epilepsy. Generally that is a condition gained before or at physical maturity.
So, are they Toy Poodles?
I wish they had not screwed up the formula of Sentinel or I’d agree with you completely.
The vet switched them to Heartgard and then Iverheart and both of them make my dogs sick and none of them are anything like collies...:(
What good are the pills if they just throw them up a half hour later?
The one who *did* keep her pill down was feverish and sick for 2 days, after.
Rather than poison my dogs with the new ‘extra bonus’ flea junk every month, I’ve had to resort to other measures.
Maybe they’ll go back to their original formulation, someday.
This just sucks.
The other thing I forgot to mention was whipworms.
Neither pill touches them in the Ivermectin dosage of the pills and they are a far greater danger than heartworms, here.
Again, it all sucks.
From what I’ve read, the ivermectin causes seizures in certain breeds, which indicates a genetic component. If your dog had that gene, you would have been seeing seizures when you first started your pup on the Heartguard.
I would definitely continue the ivermectin and look for another cause.
Yes, they’re toys. Jazz is about 6.5 lbs., and Zoey’s about 9 lbs. They’re apricot, half sisters (same father), and one month apart in age. They’re my family, and I love them dearly. I’ve always rescued dogs up until I got them. They’re the first ones I ever got from a breeder. Unfortunately, they also have the most health problems, especially Jazz.
Freakin hilarious!
Had a seizure dog once but may have to interrupt posting for work.
Quickly, FReeper vetvetdoug is indeed a vet and gives wise counsel. Alas I see that, like me, you’re afflicted with the Obamaconomy.
However, I will second whoever first recommended Salamander and her love & willingness to assist pups & their owners. And accourse she’s chimed in - I’m leaning heavily toward (parts of) posts 22, 34, 37 plus honorable mention to 46 for food grade DE.
As mentioned by others, Ivermectin can be disastrous to collies & their relations, perhaps other breeds/individuals as well.
Epilepsy, aside from other causes of seizure, usually shows up age 2-3 y.o. Look toward environmental/nutritional causes of your dog’s seizure. Eliminate all questionably artificial or vaguely poisonous vectors.
Gahhhhhhh gotta go get caught working. Good luck & for what it’s worth I’ll try to return.
I am neither doctor nor vet. All from me is anecdotal.
“Epilepsy” is the catchall term for seizures for which all other causes have been ruled out. Thus the common sense recommendation of MRI as well as other diagnostics based on blood draws, in order to rule out injury/disease.
My epileptic dog was typical, manifesting @ 2-3 y.o. with grand mals ~ x1/month until vet & I got the phenobarbitol levels balanced correctly. After that, no more seizures. But the pheno meant annual liver enzyme checks.
At seizure her spine would lock, sending her over backwards from sitting position. It seemed an inevitable event, drawn out if I tried to restrain her movements. Better to remove furniture she banged against, or quickly drag her away from large objects she was hitting & let the seizure come to its natural conclusion. In her unconsciousness, she did not like me touching her. Nor did she recognize me immediately after, causing her to avoid me & defecate in fear after she arose from the very first seizure.
A friend confirmed to me that human epileptics too, coming out of seizure, are often unaware/don’t recognize loved ones at first. So I learned to quiet media stimulants and withdraw with other pets behind a door from which I could monitor her progress. She obviously could not see well; however, I would speak sweetly until her tail would wag in recognition (or relief) and gently resume contact. Eventually going outside to run/play off anxiety with the other dog helped a lot. She seemed a bit stiff but a good nap would do her a world of good.
Once her pheno was at the correct dose & seizures halted: At odd moments, I’d catch this really weird flash from her eyes. Not just me - it weirded out others who noticed it too. I figured it was the pheno freventing a seizure that wanted to happen at that very moment. Not that I knew for sure, but it seemed almost alien. She behaved fine, no problem there.
Changing hormone levels in an ageing ~10-y.o. toy poodle could be making her vulnerable to a toxin that’s been in her environment all along. But the specifics you give of her episodes point at a recent, notable change. If nothing, not a single change in her diet or environment occurs to you - not the most insignifigant, least little thing - I would consult a different vet.
Or *sigh* if your budget is truly as compromised as mine, at least switch to a grain-free diet and absolutely no treats, bedding, toys, fabric or cleaning products made in China. Eliminate the stuff that in and of itself could be causing harm. My alpha, always of a weak stomach, began vomitting at least once a week. I switched from Purina Dog Chow to a grain free kibble. The vomitting STOPPED, leaving me to wonder what else the quality diet might be preventing... All I can think is to compare the grain free nutrition panels to the special diabetic diet you feed her.
Get Victor flea traps with no toxin exposure to Jazz, also you can treat outside house perimeter & her areas with food-grade diatomaceous earth (not the pool-treatment version, but the stuff you can buy in farming supply or gardening cntrs). DE is the powdered, fossilized remains of sea critters. Quick caution that it kills bugs thru mechanical action of drawing out moisture while also cutting them to shreds. Not poisonous at all, however you wouldn’t want sharp-edged dust in your mucous membranes and neither does Jazzy!
I wish you all the best with her. I’m really curious as to the cause of this sudden onset.
Hate to give the worst case here, but our Corgi started having heavy seizures at 5 years old which progressively got worse(more frequent and longer duration). They mostly seemed to happen overnight, vet gave him medicine to try to control them but in short time they got bad enough that it was just time....
Can only assume tumor or cancer, we just lacked finances to pursue it.
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