Posted on 08/08/2014 7:43:54 PM PDT by MtnClimber
A potential criminal threat if they’re so inclined but not a terrorist threat.
I think they could be threats, but not ahead of islamic extremists.
The Sovereign Citizen was distributed as the top threat to the Federal Government by a Communist organization called the Southern Poverty Law Center.
https://twitter.com/Thoreau_H_D/status/496349634277957632/photo/1
Oh, typing in the dark. More letters are better than less, like getting two corvettes when you only bought one!
Oh, and I forgot. The Soverign Citizen is you. The US National that upholds and defends the US Constitution.
Basically, they are declaring war on Americans and their private property. That’s all. Nothing to see here. It’s just a coup.
Boy, there’s irony for you—anarchists organizing.
I thought they were nuts, but then got to thinking the left thinks we’re nuts, and most if not all of the negative things being said about them are from the Left’s news organs so why wouldn’t I give the benefit of the doubt in all things lawful to a group that seems more like me than the people badmouthing them.
Certainly not lobbying for them, just reminding myself that I don’t believe anything I hear about politics from traditional news services so that I’ll discount just about everything I hear from them and listen to just about anyone who disagrees with them.
I have seen several articles from leftist groups misportraying these “sovereign” people as “tea party members” to smear the tea party.
Of course the government itself is full of similar leftist groups that are probably also mistakenly conflating the two...
Be aware that a lot of the information on the sovereign citizen movement is posted by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a smear against conservatives. This article should be taken with skepticism, and sites like this outright lie about the motivations of citizens (resisting government incursion on your property is different from randomly shooting cops and squatting in homes).
If you live in a wealthy area near a high-crime area, you MUST be aware of squatters. Make sure your guns are not accessible, that you are always carrying a gun, and that you are either well trained in the usage of firearms or can count on the cops in your area. These nutjobs will almost always shoot to kill, so be aware of that. Do not attempt to reason with one.
I’m not really up on them either except for a recent occurance in my town. A couple in their late twenties, stopped in a fairly new vehicle with a hand printed license plate. They had no ID, no money, credit cards or anything most people normally carry. They used made up names and were uncooperative with the cops. I think they were finally identified positively and paid some fines and went on their way (after spending a couple of weeks in jail). Probably young anarchists or something. Just weird kids
“hand printed license plate” You’ve got to be kidding. Made with cardboard and a Sharpie? :-O
And no driver licenses, insurance verification, nothing.
And they were surprised to get pulled over?
These are definitely lefties. I can’t think of any conservatives stupid enough to use a hand-made license plate.
DEA special agents would be my guess, probably rolled by their dates of everything including car tags. ELF maybe, newscasters, WH staffers or Pelosi’s office help. Could be any number of those maroons.
“And they were surprised to get pulled over?”
No, they intended to get pulled over and arrested. I wish I had followed the case to its conclusion now. I’ll do some backtracking and see if I can find some more info. The entire incident appeared to be orchestrated
Nut cases who don’t want to pay taxes or obey laws.
Went and did a google search, here are the two twits
Unlike some who are quite happy to pay "taxes" to their lord and master, and happily worship at the feet of the Won.
I recall reading so many years ago when there was a huge slave revolt, but some slaves preferred to remain in their chains in bondage, in return for their 'security' and 'safety'.
I would repeat the oft-quoted saying (paraphrasing) 'May your chains rest lightly upon ye, and may history forget you were ever our brethren'...
-But I am not as kind.
Some of us prefer to be free.
Anyone who wants to skirt whatever law or social norm. Seems they’re everything from supremacists to just plain nuts. Here’s one from my local area recently
I read the article. As they admit, they aren’t citizens.
I’m not sure what they are. Musicians? Odd? But now I’m
Repeating myself.
If you wish to read about a bit of clarity that preceded the Sovereign Citizen movement, you need to do a bit of research on a few items rather than the instant derision of some biased perspectives here.
Just a few points, since I am in a bit of a hurry now:
First, the founders never intended for there to be an “income tax”. It was only begun to help with the costs of the war(s) that followed and the statesmen that enacted it scoffed at it ever rising above a ridiculous rate such as say, 2%, and that only for the most wealthy.
Second, you need to read the history books more closely concerning the events surrounding the Civil War, and look up the term “Sine Die”, and the true legality of our current governmental system.
Finally, you need to research articles where the “sovereign citizens” have WON their court battles. How could they have won if there was no justification for it?
Where you accept a ‘License’ of any sort rather than the God-given rights acknowledged in our Constitution of the United States, you are surrendering that right to The State -to your detriment and their legal establishment of mastery over you to your slavery. Once you surrender your rights, you voluntarily submit to bondage to The State, and they have the right to tax you and pass laws upon you as they see fit.
Do a bit of research, but also know that if you follow the reasoning and decide to aspire to be a fellow “sovereign citizen”, LEOs and the majority of the populace who have no problem surrendering what is rightfully theirs to The State will be after you for everything possible.
Cheers.
Well in the first place, the post that started this thread was by a very crude shill. Shills often misspell obvious words to alert other shills that they are shilling. I mean really, someone is paid enough to rate attending a "government threat briefing" yet has never heard of "sovereign citizens," doesn't do any googling on its billion entries, and can't spell the word "sovereign"? Yeah, right.
FWIW though, the phrase "sovereign citizen," at least to my understanding, is a contradiction. Despite all the support shills on the threat bellowing about "kooks" and making up stories about hand-made license plates, not to mention the government calling such people a threat, the fact of the matter is that personal sovereignty is the very foundation of this country. The idea that human rights come from God, and not the government, is THE key issue, the very root and foundation, of what makes America, America. There can be no question of this - it is found nowhere else in the world. And it does indeed describe the very essence of personal "sovereignty" - a freedom so fundamental that it came from God, and not government. In fact, government flows from the People in America, and not the other way around.
I mean, c'mon, is this really news to anyone here? So where's the derision for the idea of "sovereignty" coming from? It may be misplaced, misunderstood, etc., but seeing how it's the very essence of why we fought Great Britain and formed the country in the first place, how can it deserve derision as a concept?
But on the other hand, the Constitution does NOT start out, "We the Citizens..." And the reason is that "citizens" of a country are NOT ""sovereign." They exist under a binding of laws and responsibilities and duties TO that government.
So - "sovereign citizen" is, literally, contradictory. It is the conflation of the "sovereign" People of innate human rights from God, and the "citizens" of individuals of limited privileges granted by the government. These are two completely different legal statuses, and we are the ONLY country on earth that has the extremely difficult problem of sorting them out. So it is completely unworthy of of derision, because in fact it is the basis for entire fields of legal study - not to mention the focus of entire law firms (which in turn make millions of dollars by fighting over these issues).
In fact, in his Obamacare decision Chief Justice Roberts referred to these two concepts as the "two powers" which, he warned, can never be confused, because if they are, a police state could arise from that confusion. Does that sound like an issue that should be mocked and derided?
So separately, contrasted with each other, "sovereign" and "citizen" both exist in their own jurisdictions, lived in by people who are innately the former, yet much of their times also existing in the latter. Decoding laws, tracing out responsibilities and obligations between these two powers, are literally what entire careers and huge legal cases are made out of. So people who mock these terms are just ignorant.
On the other hand, people who combine them and believe they can just do whatever the hell they want because they are "free" are equally stupid. Both concepts have their place, and both concepts are very powerful and deserving of study and respect - it's NOT an either/or issue. Consider: Americans have fought and died for these two powers to co-exist without one destroying the other. Because both are needed, and this country continues to this day to try to find the balance between them. So to grab for one over the other, or to try to destroy one or the other, is like the bones of the body trying to destroy the flesh for being soft, of the flesh trying to destroy the bones for being rigid. In fact, they need each other, and together can work wonders. But bones without flesh is a dead pile of sticks, and flesh without bones is a rotting pile of meat.
So don't let shills make you stupid about the issue - it's vitally important to understand calmly and clearly, without hysteria or absurd inflammatory comments. And it's as real as constitutional law itself, which exists solely to study issues where these two powers conflict, to trace the boundaries between them, and to find balances that ensure BOTH a strong and safe country, AND a free people living within it.
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