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I WILL NOT PAY (Vanity)
Self | 06/29/2012 | Turbo Pig

Posted on 06/29/2012 5:03:30 AM PDT by Turbo Pig

This is a personal declaration, which I wish to make in front of Free Republic, and anyone who comes across it.

As a whole, the ACA (aka ObamaCare) is bad law; in that through it the government is over stepping its bounds and is becoming more overly intrusive in the daily lives of Americans. The mandate, now tax, is especially onerous, because it penalizes American citizens for non activity. With the Supreme Court ruling on June 28th, 2012, the government now has precedent to try and force Americans, who are literally doing nothing into activity, through the threat of a punitive tax. Not only is that unconstitutional, despite what 5 of the 9 Supreme Court Judges have said, it is immoral and oppressive.

I current hold a job that provides me with excellent health insurance. I am stating here, though, that should I ever be placed in a situation where I am taxed for non activity, either by not having health insurance, or anything else the government tries to force me to buy, or do…I Will Not Pay.

It’s easy to hide behind the anonymity of the internet; using a pseudonym, ensconced behind a keyboard. So, my name is Garren Allard, and I live in Pleasant Hill, MO, and …I Will Not Pay.

All I want from my government is for it to uphold the Constitution and to leave me alone. Making this declaration scares me, because it potentially places myself, and more importantly my family in the cross hairs of some unelected bureaucrat, should the situation ever arise, because…I Will Not Pay.

I am lazy about my taxes. I have my withholding set so that I get a refund every year. Should I ever be in a position where the government tries taxing me for non activity, and I refuse to pay, it will simply steal the money it owes me. To that end, I am changing my withholding so that I have to write a check at the end of the year, because…I Will Not Pay.

Daily we see our elected officials say one thing and do another. We see people make well meaning and supposedly heartfelt declarations of their intents, only to back away from their convictions once the reality of their actions set in. I have given this much thought. Our fore fathers, the men who founded our great nation, and many brave souls since, came face to face with the consequences of their convictions. Many of them paid dearly, even unto death. If it comes down to a choice between backing away from my conviction in this matter, or facing the consequences, no matter how harsh the consequences may be…I Will Not Pay.

A man is only as good as his word. It is truly the only thing he owns that is 100% his; no mortal man can take it away from him. How he pledges it and how he keeps it tells all there is about the man. I swear on my solemn word, before God, my family and my fellow free citizens that…I WILL NOT PAY

.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: civildisobedience; oath; tax
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I apologize to my family, not because I am convicted in this matter, rather because they may some day have to face the consequences of them.

I also apologies to my fellow Freepers. This is my first initial post and it's a vanity type post; I was hoping to do better.

I ask that anyone else who is willing to announce their convictions, here, there, anywhere, as well.

1 posted on 06/29/2012 5:03:32 AM PDT by Turbo Pig
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To: Turbo Pig

“I current hold a job that provides me with excellent health insurance. I am stating here, though, that should I ever be placed in a situation where I am taxed for non activity, either by not having health insurance, or anything else the government tries to force me to buy, or do…I Will Not Pay.”

Job or no job, you may find that excellent health insurance disappears. As my boss said yesterday very eloquently: “why would any business pay $10,000 a year per employee for health insurance when they can pay $2,500 a year for the penalty?”


2 posted on 06/29/2012 5:08:30 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Turbo Pig

The ObamaCare tax falls directly on the individual as a “direct” tax.

The Constitution states that “direct taxes shall be apportioned...”

The ObamaCare tax is NOT apportioned.

The ObamaCare tax is UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

You are not required to comply with unconstitutional laws.


3 posted on 06/29/2012 5:14:25 AM PDT by TruthInThoughtWordAndDeed (Yahuah Yahusha)
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To: Turbo Pig

If 50% of the population pays no taxes,will they once again reep the rewards of the hard working Americans by gaining from a system they dont pay into?


4 posted on 06/29/2012 5:14:26 AM PDT by CGASMIA68
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To: Turbo Pig

By the way,no matter how PO’d we are IMOP this is not recommended;

Garren Allard, and I live in Pleasant Hill, MO


5 posted on 06/29/2012 5:16:31 AM PDT by CGASMIA68
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To: Turbo Pig
I've never had heath insurance and never want it. Haven't been to a doctor in my 20+ years as an adult and I plan to live the easy years and then check out. Why can't that be my choice?

Why not let me sign something stating that I will only receive medical care I can afford?

I plan on reducing my "income" to a level that there won't be a penalty for me. Screw 'em.

6 posted on 06/29/2012 5:17:49 AM PDT by JustCallMeFrank
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To: Boogieman

““why would any business pay $10,000 a year per employee for health insurance when they can pay $2,500 a year for the penalty?””

Why does he pay it now? To keep employees.


7 posted on 06/29/2012 5:18:03 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Turbo Pig

IN my part of the state Western Pennsylvania when our country was young George Washington imposed the Whiskey Tax. Many also would not pay. Washington called in the military and they were shot.


8 posted on 06/29/2012 5:18:52 AM PDT by IC Ken
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To: Turbo Pig

I admire your post and your attitude, but your problem is that the tax will likely be payroll deducted, just like SS and Medicare. Unless you’re working under the table, you won’t have a chance to opt out. Come to think of it, that’s just perfect...a lot of our Mexican friends (/s) probably work under the table and will get FREE healthcare without paying the #$%$%&#@ tax.

FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuuuu...


9 posted on 06/29/2012 5:20:29 AM PDT by Mich Patriot (Today if you invent a better mousetrap, the government comes along with a better mouse. RReagan)
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To: Boogieman
 “why would any business pay $10,000 a year per employee for health insurance when they can pay $2,500 a year for the penalty?”

For the same reason why they pay $10,000 now when they could pay nothing.

10 posted on 06/29/2012 5:20:29 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (You only have three billion heartbeats in a lifetime.How many does the government claim as its own?)
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To: Turbo Pig

You did a bang up good crackin job at a first post, better than I could do.

You have spoken the same words I would not have posted because I feel like staying in the shadows.

This is a raging forest fire all across America, millions are saying they will fight, but they don’t know how to fight, the Feds are making plans so they can covertly punish Americans who defy them.

Well we can covertly deny them of funding.


11 posted on 06/29/2012 5:24:38 AM PDT by Eye of Unk (Is your state Obamacare free yet?)
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To: driftdiver
"Why does he pay it now? To keep employees."

There's a competitive market for labor, just like there is for apples. OAssHat just wants us workers to pay even MORE to support the stiffs (his peeps).

12 posted on 06/29/2012 5:27:01 AM PDT by Mich Patriot (Today if you invent a better mousetrap, the government comes along with a better mouse. RReagan)
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To: Turbo Pig

I understand your frustrations. But if such a situation occurs and somehow this law stands and the penalty becomes just another tax then you WILL pay. You would lose to the IRS and they WILL win. They have unlimited resources.

Now that it is out in the open that this is a tax we wiLl bludgeon the other side with it. Americans like handouts unfortunately but they don’t like taxes that they personally have to pay. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.


13 posted on 06/29/2012 5:28:44 AM PDT by plain talk
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To: Eye of Unk

Certainly not a bad idea to change withholding to where we owe THEM.

I was fantasizing last night about no-one on our side filing federal tax returns let alone pay...... if we could get it organized, wouldn’t that be something?

Starve the beast, let them fund their own wet dreams!


14 posted on 06/29/2012 5:32:02 AM PDT by bergmeid
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To: Turbo Pig
Suppose, suppose.....I am very wealthy. I neither want nor need Health Insurance. I do not work. My income is from dividends, bonds and investments.

How is the government going to confiscate my money to buy insurance.

15 posted on 06/29/2012 5:33:00 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: bergmeid

Doesn’t need to be organized, millions are thinking the same thing, it HAS awoken a sleeping giant.


16 posted on 06/29/2012 5:34:19 AM PDT by Eye of Unk (Is your state Obamacare free yet?)
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To: Turbo Pig

When I visit you in jail, what flavor cake would you like to hide the file?


17 posted on 06/29/2012 5:34:32 AM PDT by bgill
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To: Sacajaweau

“How is the government going to confiscate my money to buy insurance. ‘

Through the IRS, same way they do any ‘tax’.


18 posted on 06/29/2012 5:34:57 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver
Why does he pay it now? To keep employees.

Right, insurance for my husband and me costs $24,528. Employer pays almost $17,000 per year of the cost. I'm not sure he will be able to offer the coverage if costs continue to rise. By the way, it's not a Cadillac plan by any means. Plan only covers generic drugs.

19 posted on 06/29/2012 5:36:30 AM PDT by muggs (Hope and Change = Hoax and Chains)
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To: Turbo Pig

Nice post!

I will not pay either. If they take money out of my paycheck, I won’t work. I’m single so I can get by doin odd jobs if need be. I’ve been seriously thinkin of headin for the hills anyway.

Maybe I can be the troll that lives under the bridge. :)


20 posted on 06/29/2012 5:37:48 AM PDT by Sporke (USS-Iowa BB-61)
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To: Turbo Pig; All
Has anyone noticed the increases in the penalty tax for not having health-care? First year (2014) nearly three hundred dollars. Second year (2015) nearly one thousand dollars. Third year (2016) two thousand dollars plus. Am certain the increases in the penalty tax for not having health-care insurance goes higher with each successive year. Think of all the new government employees this adds. Smaller government? Forget about it!

There have been waivers granted. Many people and companies have been gifted an opt-out. Think how many more employees, at the federal level, this will require. Yes, the private sector is doing fine. Methinks, doing fine has been redefined in D.C.

On a personal note Turbo Pig, methinks you did excellent in putting forth this vanity.

21 posted on 06/29/2012 5:38:26 AM PDT by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: IC Ken

I live in the Mon Valley in SW Pennsylvania. You make a good point about taxation throughout America’s history. The farmers were tar and feathering tax collectors. Washington had enough and rode at the head of a militia to end the rebellion. Upon hearing about Washington coming the angry farmers just went home and in the end had to pay the tax.


22 posted on 06/29/2012 5:39:14 AM PDT by 4yearlurker (No matter who you elect,the government eventually gets in.)
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To: muggs

That is the way they will force employers to drop coverage. Which in turn will force individuals onto the govt plan.

We cannot avoid paying the penalty or buying qualifying insurance.

On the Bill Bennet radio show this morning they had a MD call in. Apparently there are groups of MDs and other providers looking into going completely private. The Govt is forcing this onto the providers through their medicare payments. If they do not accept govt payments then they can exist outside the obamacare program.


23 posted on 06/29/2012 5:43:28 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Turbo Pig

well let them get my “will not work “ daughter to pay..I would like to see them do it.


24 posted on 06/29/2012 5:44:12 AM PDT by dalebert
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To: bgill

I’ll donate a Cat D10 to break down the prison walls and help him escape.

And others.


25 posted on 06/29/2012 5:45:06 AM PDT by Eye of Unk (Is your state Obamacare free yet?)
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To: Turbo Pig

Good on you.

But what we need to show how angry we are is a general strike by the people who work in this country. Pick a week, and have every conservative in the country go on strike and not work for those 7 days.

This would be something that millions of conservatives could do to show their anger and SOLIDARITY! Shut down the works for a whole week. Call it Galt Lite, if you will.


26 posted on 06/29/2012 5:49:51 AM PDT by ladyrustic (Get in the face of a liberal in honor of Breitbart.)
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To: muggs

BTW, it sounds like you have one of those Cadillac plans. I think there are special penalties for 1%’ers like you.


27 posted on 06/29/2012 5:50:00 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Turbo Pig
I current hold a job that provides me with excellent health insurance.

So, for now, it's a moot issue. You have gov't-approved insurance, you don't have to pay the penalty-tax, no problem. Lots of bluster over nothing.

And that's what's gonna re-elect the Obama. The Right will get all frothing-at-the-mouth over an issue which, on the whole, has negligible practical impact on most voters. Taking their eyes off the REAL issue - economy - Romney et al will now go chasing after a red herring, annoy the "undecideds", and leave the Obama room to convince the confused middle that "things have been tough, yes, but do you _really_ want those crazies running things? no."

You posted an eloquent declaration of standing against ... something that will not affect you. Um...ok...but what about the economy?

28 posted on 06/29/2012 5:59:05 AM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com)
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To: IC Ken
when our country was young George Washington imposed the Whiskey Tax. Many also would not pay. Washington called in the military and they were shot.

So what are you suggesting, Ken? Roll over and pay the tyrants?

29 posted on 06/29/2012 6:03:40 AM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Boogieman; t1b8zs; IC Ken; Mich Patriot; plain talk

@Boogieman - If I lose my health coverage through work, I will go get another policy of my choosing. If there is none for my choosing, then I not purchase insurance and do everything via cash, to the best of my abilities.

@t1b8zs - I am not PO’ed about this. In fact, I am extremely sad that our once great nation has now been made a nation of slaves; even if it doesn’t realize it at the moment. I cried when I realized what I must do. Stating my name and location openly on the net is an extreme action, and possibly opens me up to a number of bad situations. Most notably, it gives those who would take our freedom away a name and location of a dissenter. I am under no illusion that there is currently some monitor searching the net for dissent and that I am important enough to warrant his attention. If the government does have some one doing that, I am sure his reaction is, “Yeah, right (snicker)”. I do understand that there may liberals who stumble across my info that may attempt malicious acts, so be it. I can take the worst they can throw at me. As far as IT security goes; I am insulated against your run of the mill script kiddy, it’s my job.

As to why I did it, it’s more to hold myself accountable than anything else. There is no hiding, now. No longer can I make a statement of my intent and be shielded by the anonymity of the web. If I break my convictions, then there is no hiding from it. If other people want to follow my lead, that’s their decision. All I am asking is that if they are in the same frame of mind that they make a similar declaration, openly and unabashedly some place, to as many people as possible. I actually was on the local radio this morning and stated my intent to all of Kansas City in the same manner.

@IC Ken - I took an oath many years ago to defend the Constitution, no matter what. I was not released from that oath upon discharge. I’ve neglected my responsibilities, by being hap hazard and lazy, for too long. What ever the consequences I must now stand by my convictions.

@Mich Patriot - If I lose my coverage at my present job, then I have no reason to stay here. If I am true to my convictions, then I will make what ever sacrifices needed to stand by them; hence the apology to my family.

@plain talk -By whatever means necessary.

@Everyone - Thank you for being engaged.


30 posted on 06/29/2012 6:05:26 AM PDT by Turbo Pig (...to close with and destroy the enemy...)
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To: ctdonath2
You posted an eloquent declaration of standing against ... something that will not affect you.

You are correct, at the moment. Eventually, though everyone will be faced with the same choice; that's the way the law is written. Eventually private insurers will be forced out of business, and the only option will be government insurance.

I am getting out out front of it, and openly stating my stance so that when the time comes to put up or shut up I will have to look back at what I wrote and find the measure of the man I am.

It scares me, because it's easy to have the conviction from the comfort of my current situation. I am not going to apologies for having a job that provides me with great coverage; either. It's a hospital and for being a run of the mill job, it provide the best benefits I've ever had.

I won't truly know what type of man I have become until I stand at that bridge and decide to cross the Rubicon or truly become a slave.

31 posted on 06/29/2012 6:17:44 AM PDT by Turbo Pig (...to close with and destroy the enemy...)
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To: plain talk
I understand your frustrations. But if such a situation occurs and somehow this law stands and the penalty becomes just another tax then you WILL pay. You would lose to the IRS and they WILL win. They have unlimited resources.


Are we so easily coerced in this land of sheep. We may be reaching the time when as Henry David Thoreau put it the only place for an honest man is in jail.

32 posted on 06/29/2012 6:18:34 AM PDT by Idaho_Cowboy (Ride for the Brand. Joshua 24:15)
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To: 4yearlurker

I hope you are not missing the HUGE factor that differentiates the Whiskey Rebellion from what is happening now.

The Whiskey tax was levied on the sale of whiskey by Congress. The distillers were being taxed for partaking in an activity that they willingly agreed to partake in. Their grievances, founded or not, were centered on an activity that the freely chose to engage in.

The obamatax creates an activity (mandatory purchase of health insurance) that a free citizen of the United states may, or may not want to partake in. It then goes on to penalizes those who decide they do not want to partake in this government mandated activity.


33 posted on 06/29/2012 6:33:30 AM PDT by Turbo Pig (...to close with and destroy the enemy...)
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To: Turbo Pig

I applaud your stand for civil disobedience, and if I’m put in the same position, I hope I will have the nerve to join you. I’d rather not make that promise now, since I won’t know if I can cross that bridge until I get there, and I’d rather not make myself a liar if I cannot bring myself to do it.


34 posted on 06/29/2012 6:39:29 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: ctdonath2

“”I current hold a job that provides me with excellent health insurance.””

“So, for now, it’s a moot issue.”

No, it’s not moot unless he has a guarantee from his employer that they will ALWAYS provide health insurance coverage for their employees. Who believes that is going to happen? What is an employer going to choose? Paying thousands of dollars per year in premiums for coverage or a fine?


35 posted on 06/29/2012 6:45:00 AM PDT by Thank You Rush
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To: Turbo Pig
Don't get me wrong: I agree with your sentiment, and if not for an immediate ongoing need for health insurance (I'm a cyborg at this point) would consider the same path.

Just noting that the sentiment is a down-the-road stand, not an immediate one ... and that fixating on such (albeit realistic) hypothetical, we lose sight of the immediate problem and solutions thereto.

36 posted on 06/29/2012 6:51:24 AM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com)
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To: Sacajaweau

“My income is from dividends, bonds and investments.”

No problem for the IRS to seize your assets. Especially now that we (the people) allowed them to have heavily armed SWAT TEAMS!

Go Galt. Cash in your Bonds, etc. and head for the hills with your cash, gold, silver, guns and ammo. They’ll find you eventually and you’ll most likely be ‘eliminated’. At least you’ll go down fighting instead of kissing their asses.


37 posted on 06/29/2012 7:01:39 AM PDT by panaxanax (Voting 'Third Party' will ensure a Communist-Marxist-Socialist dominated Supreme Court!)
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To: Mich Patriot

To keep the BEST employees..

In this labor market employees are not hard to find. People are applying for any job they are qualified for now. I suspect most are more worried about a pay check, then health insurance.


38 posted on 06/29/2012 7:03:35 AM PDT by cableguymn
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To: no-to-illegals
"Has anyone noticed the increases in the penalty tax for not having health-care? First year (2014) nearly three hundred dollars. Second year (2015) nearly one thousand dollars. Third year (2016) two thousand dollars plus. Am certain the increases in the penalty tax for not having health-care insurance goes higher with each successive year. Think of all the new government employees this adds. Smaller government? Forget about it!"

Since yesterday I have heard three different sets of figures on this which vary significantly.

Just this morning, a libertarian talk show host in Louisville said: First year, $95.00 ; Second year, a $350.00 ; Third year, almost $700.00.

So, I'm taking a trip to my Congressman's office for the details.

39 posted on 06/29/2012 7:13:46 AM PDT by John Leland 1789
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To: Turbo Pig
It is reported that all enforcement mechanisms for enforcing penalties were stripped from the law.

This morning over WHAS, Louisville, it was reported that the IRS can keep stacking up the penalties forever if someone doesn't pay, but they have no way to ever go after it : for these penalties, can't attach accounts, can't take your house, etc.

This is reported.

40 posted on 06/29/2012 7:17:30 AM PDT by John Leland 1789
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To: Turbo Pig

When the fine gets so big, and you start getting huge judgements against you in court, what then? When the healthcare authorities get as dictatorial and scary as the IRS, what then?

(Hint: The fine will increase; think postage stamp and how much it has increased in the past years.)


41 posted on 06/29/2012 7:26:03 AM PDT by Twinkie (Isaiah 53)
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To: John Leland 1789

Do you have a link to something more substantial on the matter...not that I am questioning the veracity of your statement.


42 posted on 06/29/2012 7:30:09 AM PDT by Turbo Pig (...to close with and destroy the enemy...)
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To: John Leland 1789

“”It is reported that all enforcement mechanisms for enforcing penalties were stripped from the law.””

I’ve been hearing and reading that also - no enforcement. I guess all the additional personnel hired at IRS will no longer be necessary. Wasn’t it something like 60,000 new employees at the IRS?

Who can keep anything straight after all the garbage this administration has thrown at us?

I also hear that all obozo’s spokespeople are out there this morning saying, “This is not a tax.” Good luck, folks.
Be careful what you wish for! Chief Justice Roberts did us a favor!!!!

Even the queen Nancy had this to say, “Call it what you will.”

Old “ARE YOU KIDDING ME? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?” Nancy!!!!


43 posted on 06/29/2012 7:30:54 AM PDT by Thank You Rush
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To: John Leland 1789

If you do not mind, please keep me updated. I also will do some additional research at this local and update the information if anything is found.


44 posted on 06/29/2012 7:32:22 AM PDT by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: bergmeid

Its legal to change your with holding so u have to write em a check.

Multiply that by a million people.

Let em wait for their money!


45 posted on 06/29/2012 7:48:25 AM PDT by WildHighlander57 ((WildHighlander57 returning after lurking since 2000))
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To: Thank You Rush

No employer guarantees ANYTHING unilaterally if it can help it.

There are many instances of firms stopping health care coverage for retirees... if said retiree retired before 62, then they’re SOL and have no coverage till they reach 62.

This ruling will hit them square in the pocketbook...


46 posted on 06/29/2012 7:58:26 AM PDT by WildHighlander57 ((WildHighlander57 returning after lurking since 2000))
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To: John Leland 1789

Have found links all over the place to back up your claims. Although I saw the figures on the TV this AM (I quoted) have not found a link to back up my claim. Methinks me scared someone.


47 posted on 06/29/2012 8:09:58 AM PDT by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: John Leland 1789

Good Luck Friend on your trip to congress-person’s office. Am not finding a link which would support my claim. The reporting station of this AM will go unmentioned as it is being portrayed as SeeBS. Am not surprised someones, at the highest levels became scared. If the report was true and not SeeBS, there is a Giant roaming the forest who can change the news to fit their prototype. Am finding no link. Guess one should just wait on the future to find out what is in it, after it has been approved, or some such nonsense.


48 posted on 06/29/2012 8:18:03 AM PDT by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: Idaho_Cowboy

Yep. When it comes to the IRS force at the point of a gun wins every time. Some can pretend via the internet they will make some galliant stand but the IRS will prevail in the end.


49 posted on 06/29/2012 8:27:41 AM PDT by plain talk
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To: driftdiver; Boogieman

This is what I don’t understand. Obamacare is horrible for hundreds of reasons, but I am not following the argument that companies will drop health insurance because they only have to pay a fine.

They don’t have a fine now, so what is their incentive to have health insurance now? As driftdriver wrote, it is to keep imployees.

Is there some other connection I’m missing on why companies will drop health insurance? I realize eventually the costs will go up because of all the mandates on insurers (no refusal of pre existing conditions, no upper ceiling on payments , etc.) and that may eventually make it prohibitive for companies to afford it as a benefit? Is that what people mean when when they say companies will just pay the fine? I thought the fine/tax was on the individual person anyway?

If anyone understands this please help me understand.


50 posted on 06/29/2012 8:31:33 AM PDT by boxlunch
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