AL: Cheap Gun is Enough Gun for Homeowner

Gun Watch ^ | 9 May, 2016 | Dean Weingarten

[marktwain]

Image from wkrg.com

The RG 23 is the quintessential cheap handgun.   It never had a good reputation.  Many have claimed a lack of reliability, so I suspect that quality control was not in the same class as the old Smith & Wesson revolvers. The rough trigger makes accuracy difficult, even for experienced shooters.  The steel inserts in ZAMAK alloy construction are corrosion cells waiting to happen.  The revolvers are so inexpensive, they are not economically worth repairing.  They sold, in 1969, for 19.95.  The current price on the used market is about $50.

But, they are a gun.  They will put a hole in a person in front of them, most of the time, if the shooter does their part.  More importantly, they are recognizable as a real gun.  This is essential, because in the vast majority of cases, the person holding the gun does not have to shoot for an effective defensive gun use.  They just have to show that they are willing to shoot. Most guns used defensively are used for deterrence, rather than to injure or kill.

That is precisely what happened with the RG 23 in the picture above.  From wkrg.com:

When he came out they found the thief rummaging through his garage and all of their lawn equipment moved on the verge of being stolen.

That’s when Taylor grabbed his pistol and held the burglar up until police could get there.

“He was compliant with what I told him to do. But he was scared he was real scared,” said Taylor “He kept saying he didn’t move anything and I probably would have let him go if he didn’t just stop lying and then when I saw all my stuff pulled out and he was going to steal it, it kind of made me angry”

"Scared".  "Compliant".  Imparting the emotion to obtain the response is the major purpose of the defensive pistol in peacetime.  Peaceful and responsible gun owners do not want to shoot people.  They want criminals to be scared so as to be compliant.  In the worst case, they want to be able to stop the crazy, drugged up, drunk, or reckless when those perpetrators are not scared or compliant.  Fortunately, the cases when shooting is necessary are relatively rare.  That is why there are only about 1,000 to 1,500 cases of justifiable homicide every year in the United States.  The FBI Uniform Crime Reports (UCR) only catches about 20% of those, about 300 a year, due to the way in which the UCR has cases reported and defined.

Even a cheap pistol is enough nearly all the time.  I prefer tough, well made, accurate, easy to shoot, powerful, durable pistols. The market has told me that is what most people prefer.

The RG 23, in my opinion, is a lousy gun to teach shooting with.  It is horrible for hunting, terrible for training, dreadful for defense.   But there is a market and a purpose for cheap guns, and the story of this little old RG 23 reminded me of that.

©2016 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice and link are included.
Link to Gun Watch

[tacticalogic]

On the topic of “cheap” guns, I’d suggest a 12 gauge shotgun is the best value for most homeowners. Not only is it easier to aim and hit with than a pistol, it has more knockdown power and certainly wins in the intimidation department. Remember to use reduced recoil buckshot, preferably #4, to limit over penetration. The 12 gauge also has the virtue of being able to put food on the table if necessary.

I picked up a good used Browning BPS for about the same price as a new 870. I figure it'll probably never be worth less than I paid for it, and gets the job done just as well.

I got my wife a coach gun with external hammers. It's about as operationally intuitive as you can get - cock the hammers and pull the triggers. I actually paid more for that than the BPS, but they're not easy to find. I should have bought one (or two) of the Russian Baikals when they were available.

[ThunderSleeps]

Yeah. After talking to tactics instructors and a couple of legal types about local laws related to the use of deadly force I've basically come down to: don't draw unless you're going to shoot. Brandishing is illegal, and threats merely give away the element of surprise.

In other words, if I draw my weapon, I've already decided to shoot you. I've already decided you pose a threat of death or grave injury to myself or someone else. Because of that assessment, I've decided to employ deadly force to stop you. If I don't immediately fire it is only because I am giving you one last momentary chance to save yourself the pain and possible death from being shot. More than likely though, if I draw I will immediately get a sight picture and fire, and keep firing until I go Winchester or believe you are no-longer a threat.

That is the "story" and assessment that will keep you out of most legal trouble. However, if you have to shoot, you are probably going to be arrested and held no matter what. As the legal types say, after you shoot, you know only one word: lawyer. You don't say anything else to anyone else until you have talked to your lawyer.

[MNnice]

That works as long as the perp isn’t high on drugs and feeling invulnerable. I carry a S&W 686 .357 for just such occasions.

[ops33]

I agree. Rule #1, a weapon is always loaded until I personally verify it is not. Rule #2, never point a weapon at anyone if you don’t intend to shoot.

[PreciousLiberty]

“In your opinion, is a tactical barrel worth the added expense?”

I bought one... :-)

“What does it do exactly? Is it just shorter?”

It’s shorter, which makes it easier to handle and point. It’s also “tactical cylinder bore” which is a wide choke, meaning the shot spreads faster than with most other choke types. The formal definition is 40% of the shot inside a 30” circle at 40 yards. Even so, at typically close indoor ranges the shot will be within a fairly small circle, so aiming is important. ;-) At twelve feet, 40% of the shot would be within a 3” circle, 80% within a 6” circle and 100% within a 12” circle - on average. That would put all 27 #4 buckshot pellets from a 2 3/4” shell into someones chest at that range.

BTW, doing a quick search right now, there was no reduced recoil #4 listed at Midway. Full power should be fine with the lighter buckshot. Definitely use reduced recoil loads if going the 00 buckshot route. Note with 00 you’re only getting nine pellets per 2 3/4” shell. Granted, they are .33 caliber.

[Little Pig]

Cheap guns can be very effective. Just ask the French Resistance:

[OldSmaj]

Just ask the French Resistance:

There are no documented instances of the use of this by anyone, GI's, French resistance or Saturday Night burglars.

Although churned out in the hundreds of thousands by a division of General Motors, they were never issued.

Today, only about 40 can be accounted for.

Their value as a collectible item ranges from a couple of hundred to a couple of thousand, depending on the condition and the accessories with them.

[G Larry]

If you ever have the chance to take defensive handgun training, do it.

You practice “Shoot, Don’t shoot” drills in high stress situations.

The point is to keep family members and innocents alive, but the further point is you don’t really want to kill a burglar if you don’t have to.

[PreciousLiberty]

‘That is the “story” and assessment that will keep you out of most legal trouble. However, if you have to shoot, you are probably going to be arrested and held no matter what. As the legal types say, after you shoot, you know only one word: lawyer. You don’t say anything else to anyone else until you have talked to your lawyer.’

Not talking too much is certainly good advice, as is asking for your lawyer.

As to being arrested, here in SC we have the Castle Doctrine. So, in the home defense scenario, as long as there was a reasonable fear of death, “great bodily harm” or a “violent crime”, the shooter is immune from prosecution. SC is friendly to the idea of self-defense in general, thankfully. The doctrine extends to one’s vehicle and place of business as well.

The one thing to avoid is shooting if the criminal attempts to flee. Let him or her go, and call the police. Shooting someone (especially an unarmed someone) in the back as they flee may not end well...

[sagar]

” I don’t want to blow someone away over a simple burglary especially if they are running away”

If they are running away and you shoot them, which would naturally hit the perp on the back, good luck with that. The gubmint will charge you with murder and you will be ruined financially.

[super7man]

I have a Lorcin that bought as a trading gun when the SHTF. Its horrible to shoot. Maybe its worth $100.

[mcmuffin]

686’s are mighty fine!

[IronJack]

if I draw my weapon, I've already decided to shoot you.

A good rule of thumb. And the corollary is, if I've decided to shoot you, it's because you've done something really, really stupid and dangerous, so I have no qualms about taking you out of the social sweepstakes.

[Mouton]

Yeah, I figured that all all by myself which is why I don’t plan to do it!

[AppyPappy]

Pump action .410

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

Remember back to the DARK AGES when bobby Kennedy was murdered with a USA made Iver Johnson .22 handgun.
The anti-gunners immediately jumped on this and demanded the banning of all FOREIGN made SMALL handguns as “Saturday Night Specials”!

To prove how bad these foreign made guns were, the US government contracted with the H.P. White Laboratories to test and prove how bad those guns were.

Placing an RG in a machine rest they got the shocks of their lives. The guns proved to be Cheap, junk, but extremely accurate. Even more accurate than an Olympic pistol.

They were still banned with the passage of the 1968 Gun Control Law, so RG began to import PARTS and have them assembled in Florida, until Ronald Reagan was shot with one of these, then they disappeared from the market.

I saw an RG for sale a few weeks ago in a local pawn shop. For a pistol that originally sold for about $12-$15 dollars fifty years ago, they wanted $119 for it.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

Röhm GmbH of Sontheim/Brenz. Stamped on all their German made firearms.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%B6hm_Gesellschaft

[Bob]

The key is to not be bluffing. You really will shoot if need be. That’s not a bluff.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

A friend of mine years ago had one of these jewels. He said every time he fired the thing a bullet went down the bore, and another went down the side of the pistol. How it did that I don’t know, but it did it.

[Blue Collar Christian]

A cheap gun is a crapload better than no gun. But still, for not that much more money, a much better gun can be had and makes self defense much less of a gamble.