Posted on 01/18/2016 1:57:17 PM PST by GraceG
I have been doing a lot of thinking lately about the fall of the Roman Empire and how it started off as the Roman Republic and how it took a very long time from the fall of the Roman Republic to the fall of the Roman Empire. If a Republic doesn't fall into chaos and collapse, it will eventually de-evole into an "Post-Republic Empire". I think we are already there.
I am starting to think that the American Republic is long dead and has long since been dead. Especially in everything I have experienced in the last few presidential elections. It seems these days that we are just doing nothing but voting for the next Emperor instead of an Executive position called President.
I honestly think that Ronald Reagan was the Last Actual President we had as a Republic. I think since him we have had nothing but "Soft Emperors", and with Obama we have the first "Real Emperor". It just seems like this election will just be a popularity contest to pick another Emperor.
To me it boils down to the style of the candidates we are seeing.
From what I can tell people like Cruz and Carson are more like President like in that they seem to want to rule within the confines of the Constitution and know the limits of what the office entails. We have the group in the middle who are like Webb, Huckabee, Bush, O'Malley, Kasich are the "Soft Core Emperors" where they will be a Hybrid of Caesar and President depending on what decision is being made. The Establishment is most certainly in the "Soft Emperor" style because that is what mentality has been running D.C. for the last 20-25 years. On the other side of the spectrum we have candidates like Trump, Christie, Sanders and Clinton are "Hard core Emperor Types".
Now I am not calling Donald Trump a liberal (this has to do with the STYLE of authority wielding) , I am calling his style very Emperor like based on his actions and past. The style of people like Sanders, Clinton, and Christie are very self evident as "Hard Emperor". I think the only viable option may be at this point to "Have the Emperor on OUR SIDE" and I think some of popularity of Trump may very well be attributed to this "gut feeling" of the American subjects.
I think we are lost, at least for the moment, the people are so used to the emperor that they will outright reject anyone not claiming grandiose plans and the promise to use their newfound authority for whatever group they are speaking to. Indeed we have the bread of welfare and the circuses of entertainment that is devoid of any actual civic or civil discussion. As the Emperor Napoleon said that an army marches on it stomachs, he forgot to add that the subjects of an empire will always vote on their stomach as well.
I think we are the "American Empire" and no longer the "American Republic" and anyone wanting to move the clock back will always be derided by the establishment and criticized for "moving backwards" even though eventual Feudalism is the inevitable direction of ANY empire.
“...and to the Republic for which it stood”.
Sadly yes, the Roman Empire started it’s decline when the Roman republic started subsidizing the wheat farmers. The American Empire started it’s decline with the “Progressive Era” and by FDR’s time the coffin had been built, it was only a matter of time until it was filled, starting with LBJ and finishing with Obama....
It’s not over yet. The founders knew such a day would come and they give us a way out: Article V. CLick on my name for more...
I quite agree with you. Well said. Empress Hillary is the most frightening.
[ It’s not over yet. The founders knew such a day would come and they give us a way out: Article V. CLick on my name for more... ]
I agree, I don’t think electing anyone as president right now will be a panacea. Even if we get the most Constitutional originalist in as president the problem is as a constitutional originalist they will certainly not let themselves wield enough power to turn things around nor should they technically.
Article V is the ONLY exit ramp, picking an Emperor who is favorable towards Article V will certainly help a lot, but even if Bernie Sanders gets in we can still do Article V.
As I have posted before:
1. Elect More Republicans - Failed due to RINO/Uni-party confluence.
2. Article V Convention of States to propose Amendments - Needed to try to take power from the federal government back to the states and reel in the federal leviathan.
3. State Nullification - Last ditch effort to try to take power back from the federal monster, though by this point it may be too late.
4. State Secession - Could either end up peaceably like the breakup of the Czechoslovakia in 1993 or a brutal:
5. Civil War II like the first one.... The longer we wait on #2, the more likely #3, then #4 and finally #5. .
So, do we do nothing and just wait for # 5?
As disappointing as the news may be to some, we're not going back to a Father Knows Best and Leave It to Beaver America. Time marches on.
Yep. That about sums it up.
[ As disappointing as the news may be to some, we’re not going back to a Father Knows Best and Leave It to Beaver America. Time marches on. ]
I agree, I hate to sound like I’ve given up, but I haven’t, I am simply accepting reality.
http://alfin2100.blogspot.com/2013/01/the-life-span-of-empires-250-years.html
this is a fascinating article on the lifespans of republics/Empires
Sadly, we never even got to the American Empire. If we were like Rome we’d have an empire and kept the world at peace for a couple of centuries of Pax Americana.
We went straight from a Republic to 5th century Rome in the matter of a few decades.
The problem was that small farmers that were the backbone of the republic (only landowners could serve in the military) couldn't compete with grain from the captured territories (especially Africa). They sold their property to rich landowners who turned them into vast slave worked estates. That forced the Marius reform of the Army, which allowed non-landowners to join and the creation of a professional army. Massive influxes of slaves meant jobs were scarce for citizens. Meanwhile Rome itself became a gang infested city of a million utterly dependent on foreign grain givaways. Rome was never more than a few days food supply away from starvation and anarchy. And politically they had endured close to a century of civil war and tyrants. By the time of Augustus rule by emperor seemed like an improvement,
[ The problem was that small farmers that were the backbone of the republic (only landowners could serve in the military) couldn’t compete with grain from the captured territories (especially Africa). They sold their property to rich landowners who turned them into vast slave worked estates. That forced the Marius reform of the Army, which allowed non-landowners to join and the creation of a professional army. Massive influxes of slaves meant jobs were scarce for citizens. Meanwhile Rome itself became a gang infested city of a million utterly dependent on foreign grain givaways. Rome was never more than a few days food supply away from starvation and anarchy. And politically they had endured close to a century of civil war and tyrants. By the time of Augustus rule by emperor seemed like an improvement, ]
Growing up a farm this all seem eerily familiar...
Replace Roman with United States and Rome with New York and history repeats itself
Interesting. Thanks. BUMP
Grace, you and I are on the same wave length.
Seriously.
I was reading up on The Roman Republic this weekend myself.
However most of everything I read. Which I will admit is only light reading on the Internet, it all talks or broods about how “X Y Z led to the transformation from The Republic to The Empire”
But I want to know what life was like In The Republic. Not just daily life but the political in and out’s.
Did The Republic work?
I respectfully disagree.
There will always be tension between the three branches and attempts at overreach from each. The system was designed that way.
There is a difference between leadership and overreach.
Leaders influence everyone, even political enemies. They move their agenda forward by the strength of their arguments, their character and their confidence (e.g. Reagan).
Others who assume office are not leaders at all (e.g. Clinton, Obama). Some follow the polls, some follow their political ideals, but cannot lead from a position of moral strength because they do not have the character. Clinton and Obama are incapable of thought past their own self-interest. These are truly shallow people, although they can be clever.
I believe real leaders will again rise to the occasion. And I believe our foundation, the Constitution, will buy us time until they do.
I’m concerned for the metal health of some here that seem to feel if their candidate doesn’t win it’s the end of the world. Any Republican candidate would be better than Hillary.
[ I’m concerned for the metal health of some here that seem to feel if their candidate doesn’t win it’s the end of the world. Any Republican candidate would be better than Hillary. ]
Agreed, just because I think the republic is dead doesn’t mean i am not going to do everything I can to keep Hillary out of the seat of power...
I have been wondering about similar questions.
1. Is the republic dead?
2. If it’s not dead yet, can it be saved?
3. If it can be saved, do we want to save it, or it the transition either desirable or unavoidable?
I think:
1. No, it’s not quite dead, be we are very close to that threshold.
2. It can be saved, but this presidential election is certainly the last opportunity short of drastic measures.
3. The alternative to saving America as a free country is so terrible that it is worth any risk or any price to try to restore freedom. The transition to a lawless socialist state and the destination afterword are so terrible that they are worse than all other options, including an all out civil war. The alternatives have extremely high risk, but they have a nonzero probability of success, and that is good enough. I see two paths - Article V and the Second Amendment. I am not confidence that Article V could be accomplished without the convention being hijacked by America’s enemies, but I am worried just how ugly the Second Amendment path would certainly get.
I will continue to pray that America’s enemies will stop pushing Obama’s agenda. However, I have seen nothing to indicate that the democrats will willingly tolerate our continued freedom.
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