Why don't you two go back and read the thread from the beginning (or at least look at the pictures) before making any more stoopid comments.
Posted on 09/22/2015 8:49:25 AM PDT by Robert Teesdale
A member of the Desgraciados Motorcycle Club named George Bergman appeared at an examining trial last Friday in Waco. Bergman had just arrived at the Twin Peaks restaurant last May 17 and was walking to the Don Carlos restaurant on the other side of the parking lot to use the bathroom there when he heard a gun shot.
He was detained, found to be in possession of two, small, legal knives incarcerated for hours and finally arrested. He spent 20 days in jail before being released on $80,000 bail. He lost his job and continues to suffer from injuries suffered during his incarceration. Last Friday he asked that the charges against him be dismissed because there was no probable cause to believe that he was guilty of participating in organized criminal activity.
A judge named James E. Morgan refused to dismiss the charges so Bergman’s nightmare will continue. But before he left the court he read the following statement into the record.
(snip)
"I then saw one police officer in front of me just shooting wildly toward the crowd at Twin Peaks with a rifle..."
“I don’t question the patriotism of the veterans I see displaying it.”
....
I’ll admit I did a double-take at your post! HA!
I don’t question their patriotism either,
But , , ,
what Patriot doesn’t have fond reverence for Old Glory?
In my day, in public school, we pledged Allegiance to the Flag every morning. We also said the [Protestant version] of the Our Father, and that was not so very long ago. I believe I was introduced to Barbara Fritchie in grade school; students today, probably not.
Maybe kids since then, who are now adults, were not trained in respect for the flag.
Not veterans, they were trained in respect for Old Glory. What Patriot doesn’t have chills at Taps?? Retreat? Vets know about respect for Old Glory.
At my WW II vet Uncle’s funeral, my daughter asked why my brother, her uncle, had tears in his eyes at the playing of Taps. I said, “Because he is a soldier.”
The folding of the flag.
The dignity, the respect.
I get freedom of expression; but that freedom does not force crassness. It tolerates, allows it.
The Flag, the colors, represent the Constitution, our Constitutional Republic, which is why protesters burn it.
They know the symbolism of the Flag, the colors. Which is why they choose to burn it.
More impact than burning a sheaf of papers, with the Constitution printed on it. Because they cannot burn The Constitution. They denigrate the Flag which represents it.
Vets, bikers, should know better than to denigrate the flag of the Constitution they are said to hold dear.
Old Glory is not something to be joked about, made the subject of “clever” innuendo.
It is to be respected with a kind of reverence. not a false reverence, but in real appreciation for what it represents, Our Constitution, nothing less.
Is the Constitution to be made light of, too? A type of joke, among those who are too clever by half in their own freedom of expression? ? ?
This day and age amazes me. Even presumed allies, feel free to denigrate what should be upheld.
respectfully, etc.
“I don’t question the patriotism of the veterans I see displaying it.”
....
I’ll admit I did a double-take at your post! HA!
I don’t question their patriotism either,
But , , ,
what Patriot doesn’t have fond reverence for Old Glory?
In my day, in public school, we pledged Allegiance to the Flag every morning. We also said the [Protestant version] of the Our Father, and that was not so very long ago. I believe I was introduced to Barbara Fritchie in grade school; students today, probably not.
Maybe kids since then, who are now adults, were not trained in respect for the flag.
Not veterans, they were trained in respect for Old Glory. What Patriot doesn’t have chills at Taps?? Retreat? Vets know about respect for Old Glory.
At my WW II vet Uncle’s funeral, my daughter asked why my brother, her uncle, had tears in his eyes at the playing of Taps. I said, “Because he is a soldier.”
The folding of the flag.
The dignity, the respect.
I get freedom of expression; but that freedom does not force crassness. It tolerates, allows it.
The Flag, the colors, represent the Constitution, our Constitutional Republic, which is why protesters burn it.
They know the symbolism of the Flag, the colors. Which is why they choose to burn it.
More impact than burning a sheaf of papers, with the Constitution printed on it. Because they cannot burn The Constitution. They denigrate the Flag which represents it.
Vets, bikers, should know better than to denigrate the flag of the Constitution they are said to hold dear.
Old Glory is not something to be joked about, made the subject of “clever” innuendo.
It is to be respected with a kind of reverence. not a false reverence, but in real appreciation for what it represents, Our Constitution, nothing less.
Is the Constitution to be made light of, too? A type of joke, among those who are too clever by half in their own freedom of expression? ? ?
This day and age amazes me. Even presumed allies, feel free to denigrate what should be upheld.
respectfully, etc.
We have not seen the ballistics reports. The Autopsy reports mentioned gunshot wounds of "small" and "medium" sizes, but as has been laboriously pointed out, the Autopsy Reports are not ballistics reports, and do not give forensic information denoting what caliber nor from what firearm the bullets came. That simply is not the job of the Medical Examiner. Sizes are subjective, and because of the elasticity of skin and other factors may be misleading.
So, simply put, the evidence given does not support your conclusion.
Or, more simply put, that's bullsh*t.
Where were these bullets identified? How do you conclude the police had no other caliber of weapon there?
Nine of the patches on my vest are "In memory of..."
Maybe I should have put them on my pajamas?
There is nothing so personal as the clothes I wear, at least externally. I don't wear them to please anyone but me.
You know this, how?
I don't think the video refutes Bergman on his plan to use the can at Don Carlos, but the video apparently doesn't show him heading for Don Carlos.
The relevant part of Bergman's written statement:
When I arrived at Twin Peaks, I parked my bike and when I saw how crowded Twin Peaks was I decided to use the restroom at the Don Carlos restaurant. Just as I started toward Don Carlos I heard shooting and ducked behind some cars. ...
mac_truck's remark, "He [Bergman] was clearly lying when he said he was on his way to Don Carlos when the shooting broke out." should be read in light of what Bergman actually said.
This does not state he even got a step in that direction.
Any assertion that the statement was false would have to come from a mind reader or someone speculating. The burden of proof remains with the accuser, and cannot be met from the statement presented.
Did the video show any shots being fired?
No. They stopped it before that.
-- Any assertion that the statement [of Bergman] was false would have to come from a mind reader or someone speculating. --
Yeah, well, beware the strawman, shifting contention, and other assorted dishonesty in argument.
In the examining trial, prosecutor Jarrett asserted that Bergman was lying when he said (the statement in bold):
Nevertheless, my wife had to go out of town and it was a beautiful day so, at the last minute, I decided to ride my motorcycle down to the COC meeting without about four other club members. What is also funny is that I thought the meeting was at the Texas Roadhouse and did not realize it was not until we passed it by.
Witherspoon's tweet said:
Jarrett said Bergman's statement that he arrived with a "few of his friends" is an "outright lie" based on the video evidence.Now, "arrived with a few of his friends" is NOT what Bergman said. Bergman said he decided to ride with about four club members. When going to a gathering, the number of people that one is "riding with" is apt to change through the course of the ride.
At any rate, pointed out for the purpose of airing that there is an accusation by the state that Bergman lied in his statement. Witherspoon did not report that the state accused Bergman of lying in the part of his statement that reads, "I decided to use the restroom at the Don Carlos restaurant. Just as I started toward Don Carlos ..."
Wrong...the medical examiners provided very specific measurements and anatomical descriptions of the wound sizes and locations...in some cases they also recovered, tagged and described intact and deformed bullets which were described as "small" or "medium" caliber.
I provided police evidence photographs in post 5 showing Bergman hiding behind a motorcycle just a few feet away from where one of the Bandidos was gunned down.
Don Carlos is in the opposite direction from where Bergman is shown hiding.
Why don't you two go back and read the thread from the beginning (or at least look at the pictures) before making any more stoopid comments.
Your photographs cannot show intent. Once the shooting starts, the nearest cover is the preferred destination. So, stuff it, unless you have a claim as a mind reader.
The Medical Examiner may measure the wound, but that is not a determinant of caliber of the weapon used to make it. Skin stretches, and rebounds, swells, and suffers from abrasion form the bullet. The angle of impact, whether the bullet has passed through or been deflected by another object, all affect the characteristics of the wound, among other factors. That is not a determinant of who fired what at whom.
The police evidence photos show both Bergman's location and direction.
Bergman was NOT heading away from Twin Peaks when the shooting started and he was NOT hiding behind a car either.
I'd also add that those evidence photos are stills from dash-cam and security cameras, which means a complete records of Bergman's movements are available.
Whenever I read these lame attempts of yours to play Perry Mason I just have to laugh.
Impeaching Bergman's statement will be child's play...in fact, the prosecution wanted to question Bergman directly but their request was turned down by the judge who said procedural rules for probable cause hearings would not allow it.
Likewise to you. At least I cite to what was said, whereas you and the prosecution resort to strawmen and dishonest argument to support your accusations.
Any further impeachment of Bergman depends on the state charging him with a crime. I predict that no charge will be filed against Bergman, so whatever points the state scored served their purpose - he still stands accused as far as the legal system is concerned.
Great! Provide a link!
“Small and medium just don’t fit the many rifles and handguns I have used over the years. Sorry, but without specific calibers and bullet weights there can be no determination. “
Small and medium and Large are descriptions of bullets used by ME’s in autopsy reports.
Small is .22 or similar.
Medium is .38 or similar
Large is .45 or similar.
Bullets are passed to Forensics for exact determinations.
This has all been posted and discussed before.
Right down to where .308 falls. (medium).
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