The Battlecarrier Was Part Battleship, Part Aircraft Carrier

War Is Boring ^ | 12/6/13 | Kyle Mizokami

[ken5050]

An interesting article...though somewhat out of date, as it was published in 2013. The Zumwalt class of DDs it refers to have been cancelled after only two were built.

What's surprising is that the author omitted the one modification to the BBs that was actually field tested, and would have been very effective.

In the 80's the Navy had developed a rocket boosted shell for the BBs...with a range of 200+ miles. This would have put about 90% of the world's cities within range.

And instead of sending a Tomahawk cruise missile, at $1 million + each..to take out a building and/or a few tents, one shell from one turret could have done the job at about 2% of the cost.

IIRC..the tests were very promising. Ultimately the Navy dropped the program, because it did NOT want to keep the BBs in service..they were viewed as too costly to operate primarily because of the size of the crew..about 2,200. By comparison, the Zumwalt class of DD's has a crew of 140.

Off topic, but that type of "cost saving" may turn out to be very expensive, in money and lives. One of the main advantages of a large crew is in damage control...and the newer ships simply don't have enough bodies to do the job. A modern DD takes a missile hit...maybe 30-40% of the crew is killed or injured..Most left are needed to man and fight the ship...who's gonna do the Dc repairs to save her? Or maybe the Navy's thinking is that with modern surface skimming ship killer missiles..there won't be anything left ?

[USNBandit]

the Navy surface community is always dreaming of something.

[USNBandit]

Sixteen inch shell. Think of it like shooting Volkswagons packed with explosives.

[puppypusher]

“Can’t disagree.

JDAMS were what killed the Iowa’s”

I disagree.What put the Iowa’s out of business was the explosion in the turret of I think it was the Wisconsin.it killed a number of gunners when it went off.

Whether the Navy will ever activate any of those ships again is highly unlikely.

By the way I thought s number of the Iowa Class Boats were turned into museums.

[moovova]

In the movie “Battleship”, the Missouri was a docked “museum” ship but brought into action to fight the alien invaders. The museum crew were old, grizzled navy vets that were “enlisted” to run the ship. Yes, I know...silly movie.

Brought tears to my eyes.

[GreyFriar]

The Japanese did this conversion midway through WWII because of their main carriers being sunk: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_battleship_Hy%C5%ABga After the disastrous Battle of Midway, the Japanese Navy considered plans to convert all battleships besides Yamato and Musashi into aircraft carriers. Ultimately, the Navy decided that only the Hyūga and Ise would be converted into hybrid battleship/carriers. Hyūga was reconstructed at the Sasebo Navy Yard from 1 May to 1 October 1943. Hyūga and her sister ship Ise had their two aft 356 mm (14 in) turrets (784 t (864 short tons) each) and barbettes (730 t (800 short tons) each) removed. They were replaced by a small flight deck and hangar to launch a squadron of aircraft. To compensate for the weight loss and to preserve metacentric height, the flight deck was covered with 203 mm (8 in) of concrete. A single elevator was fitted. Anti-aircraft weapons were also added to better fight off aerial attack. Her complement of 14 Yokosuka D4Y dive bombers and eight Aichi E16A seaplanes were catapult-launched, but landed either on conventional carriers or land bases. They could also be hoisted back on board with cranes. Because production of aircraft was severely depleted by then, Hyūga never carried the full complement

[brivette]

as a former navy nuc submariner, love this drawing!

[Eric in the Ozarks]

The explosion was inside a current aboard the Iowa. The US Navy tried to assign blame to a couple of the crew members, hinting there was a gay love affair going on.
This “rumor” was total crushed about two years after the young men had been smeared.

[PanzerKardinal]

Around 1984, USNI Proceedings had a series of articles debating whether to convert an Iowa class BB into a hybrid carrier.

Verdict was:

1. Didn’t have enough space to support even a helicopter sqd.
2. To support any viable number of aircraft, you’d have to completely rebuild aft of power plant.
3. Rebuild would be more expensive than a Tarawa class LHA.
4. Most importantly, there was NO MISSION for such a platform - Keep BB as a shore bombardment platform and spend the money on another LHA.

[tanknetter]

You’re thinking of the Iowa explosion in 1989.

Once the USN second investigation pointed to human error (failing to follow procedure and overrammimg the powder bags into the breach) rather than a bogus homosexual suicide plot (as the first investigation claimed) the USN was ok with using the Iowa’s guns.

Missouri and Wisconsin served with distinction during Desert Storm, which was after the Iowa explosion. Iowa herself was scheduled for repair, all the parts to fix turret 2 were procured and still sit in the turret today, the ship being a museum in the Port of Los Angeles.

The reason the Iowas left service was because the cost effectiveness of planes with JDAMs over them and their large crews made them prohibitively expensive luxuries in an era of peace-dividend military draw downs.

[PapaBear3625]

I note the name “Iowa” will be used for the next attack submarine.

I also like the OMFG-class of subs:

In September 2002, Electric Boat received a contract for the conversion of USS Ohio (SSBN 726), Michigan (727), Florida (728) and Georgia (729). The submarines have been refitted with up to 154 Tomahawk TLAM (land attack) or Tactical Tomahawk (block IV) missiles and are also be capable of conducting special operations missions with accommodation for Northrop Grumman advanced SEAL delivery systems (ASDS), mission control centre and 102 special operations troops.

General Dynamics Advanced Information Systems is modifying the Trident fire control system for the Tomahawk weapon control.

Northrop Grumman Electronic Systems is adapting the missile launch tubes, developing a multiple all-up round canister (MAC) which provides storage and launch of up to seven Tomahawk missiles from each of the submarine's 22 missile tubes. The SSGN submarines are also fitted with the Raytheon AN/BYG-1 combat data system.

Something that can ripple-fire 154 cruise missiles, with each carrying 1,000 pounds of explosive, can produce interesting results.

[Gandalf_The_Gray]

I’ve long been seeking some footage if 16” shells landing in an impact area, there doesn’t seem to be much of it around.

I've seen such when I was much younger. I'd guess news-reel footage from that era would be a good place to start.

The footage I saw showed the incoming shells as dark streaks against a blue sky. Some of the incoming rounds landed a bit short of land, hit the water's surface and skipped like a stone. There were still pictures of the beach area after the shelling stopped showing 'grunts' eating their grub while sitting on objects that looked something like a canoe. Of course the strange objects were 16" projectiles with their fuses armed (I'd guess).

Regards,
GtG

[PapaBear3625]

In the movie “Battleship”, the Missouri was a docked “museum” ship but brought into action to fight the alien invaders. The museum crew were old, grizzled navy vets that were “enlisted” to run the ship. Yes, I know...silly movie.

One of the biggest violations of credibility was the idea that the Navy would keep live ordinance on a museum ship. For safety reasons, in real life they wouldn't even keep fuel on board.

[Don W]

I just watched that movie. HilariouS!

[Gandalf_The_Gray]

In the 80's the Navy had developed a rocket boosted shell for the BBs...with a range of 200+ miles. This would have put about 90% of the world's cities within range.

Within range, yes! Doing serious damage, I'd have to say not so much. If you think about it there is a trade off as the Germans found out in WWI & WWII. In both wars they attempted very long range shelling of Allied cities. In WWI they tried shelling Paris from 75 miles away. The effect was disappointingly small as the bursting charge has to get smaller the further you try to throw it.

"a rocket boosted shell" will travel further than a shell with out the rocket assist. The down side is in order to shoot further you will have to reduce the bursting charge to account for the weight of the rocket propellant! Much like the German Paris gun results, the further you shoot, the less effective the shell becomes. Big bang requires a bigger bursting charge...

Regards,
GtG

PS "In the 80's the Navy had developed a rocket boosted shell" I seem to remember the "SubRock" was used in the mid 70's with a range of 90 miles or so. Those could have been tests of a preliminary prototype.

PPS Prior to the development of GPS technology, shooting over the horizon would be problematical without a spotter. The ballistic tables for the German Paris gun included corrections for the Earth's rotation while the shell was in flight!

[98ZJ USMC]

I’ve long been seeking some footage if 16” shells landing in an impact area, there doesn’t seem to be much of it around.

By way of relating a first hand account, a good buddy was a 4th ID LRRP operating in the Central Highlands in Vietnam. They desperately needed some danger close arty to extract. They called up and got fire support from the New Jersey.

He said it was, by far, the most incredible thing he ever witnessed.

[Lurker]

I saw that barrage. Most impressive thing I’ve ever seen.

L

[moovova]

“One of the biggest violations of credibility...”

Yeah, I knew that was fantasy...but it made for a happy ending. Wiki says 3 tugboats were used to move the ship for the movie as the Missouri’s engines hadn’t powered up in years...

Still, a beautiful ship and a piece of history. (I’m ex-Navy.)

[cyclotic]

I spent a day on the New Jersey showing the volunteer crew hos to replace some deck boards. I came home with a scrap of deck from the Admiral’s deck. I assume Bull Halsey stood on it.

[Riley]

Danger-close 16”?! I’ll bet it was impressive! Good grief! That’s like calling in Krakatoa on your pos!

Whoof!