What Would Have Happened if Germany Had Invaded the U.S. During World War II?

Slate ^ | August 2, 2015 | By Quora Contributor

[MinorityRepublican]

Invading the North American mainland can be safely left in the realm of bad Hollywood films. And that's even today, with larger ships, jet cargo aircraft, and more people. While it makes for a great strategy, in the end, it's just a nonstarter. Why?

The Germans had no forward base in the New World. If they had seized Iceland, any of the French protectorates in the Caribbean, or northern South America, then an invasion, while still a stretch, could have been conceivable. Without forward bases to deploy to and from, an invasion isn't going to happen.

[mountn man]

During the three and one half years of WWII, the US produced 10 battleships, 27 aircraft carriers, 110 escort carriers, 211 submarines, 907 Cruisers/Destroyers/Escorts, 82,000 landing craft, 124,000 ships of all types, and 310,000 aircraft

You've repeatedly mentioned this.

And while all true.

And all laudable, it's important to note that these new ships didn't arrive in the first 6 months or year. Like I stated earlier, the Essex, the first carrier built during the war wasn't ready until mid '43.

1-1/2 years after Pearl Harbor.

The vast majority of capital ships came after mid '44.

[kabar]

First, the carriers. The US had seven at the time. NONE in mothballs. 3 were in the Pacific, though the Saratoga was in San Diego after drydock. The rest were in the Atlantic.

How do you know what we had in moth balls? I didn't say we had carriers in mothballs, but there were other ships that could have been altered and put in service to serve as a carrier. The first US carrier was the USS Langley, which was a converted Proteus-class collier.

As a logistics man, you should know that the carriers in the Atlantic were needed in the Atlantic. The Hornet was coming out of its shakedown cruise. The Ranger and Wasp were on ferry duty and patrol in the Atlantic.

As a naval officer, I know we would have placed a higher priority on moving some of our forces to the West Coast if our carriers had been wiped out. Yes, Germany was always considered the higher priority theater of war, but we would not allow our West Coast to be left undefended.

You mention mothballed ships being converted to carriers. Do you have ANY CLUE as to how long it would take to convert an old cruiser to a carrier, man her and perform a shakedown cruise???

Do you know how long it would take to build 10 battleships, 27 aircraft carriers, 110 escort carriers, 211 submarines, 907 Cruisers/Destroyers/Escorts, 82,000 landing craft, 124,000 ships of all types, and 310,000 aircraft? Answer three and one-half years. Do you have clue about Americans when faced with a challenge, at least those formed in the crucible of the the Great Depression. We were a can-do people who could do wonderous things. How old are you?

Without replacement, Midway wouldn't have happened. Remember, Lexington was lost a month earlier at Coral Sea.

Those battles would not have happened, but the Japanese Imperial Navy would be destroyed regardless. It was a matter of time.

Midway was a success because we had multiple carriers to form a trap.

Without getting too far into the weeds, we were fortunate to achieve the outcome we did. There was some serendipity involved in just locating the Japanese plus they made some critical mistakes in how they armed their aircraft. Midway stopped the Japanese Navy's expansion to the East, but it was not an overwhelming victory. The Japanese still had a very formidable Navy.

The US wouldn't have had carrier parity until early '44. That's not propaganda. That's not platitudes. Those are cold hard facts. Saying otherwise is just wishful thinking.

As I said, you just underestimate what the US could do when faced with a challenge. I provided you with what we produced in 3 1/2 years.

Ground was broken for construction of the Pentagon on September 11, 1941, and the building was dedicated on January 15, 1943. Do you think we could do that today?

No matter what happened at Pearl Harbor, it didn't affect the production of the atomic bomb.

[kabar]

And all laudable, it's important to note that these new ships didn't arrive in the first 6 months or year. Like I stated earlier, the Essex, the first carrier built during the war wasn't ready until mid '43. 1-1/2 years after Pearl Harbor.

The Essex (CV-9)was commissioned on 31 December 1942; the Yorktown (CV-10) on 15 April 1943; the Intrepid (CV-11) on 16 August 1943; the Hornet (CV-12) on 20 November 1943; and the Franklin (CV-13) on 31 January 1944. If our carriers had been wiped out at Pearl, you can bet these dates would have been moved up and the carriers put into service even earlier.

While the mobilization of our war machine did take time, the production rate was incredible once up and running. If you want to hypothesize that our Pacific fleet carriers were wiped out, I can certainly with some factual basis believe that we would have accelerated production of new carriers even more. It is just a matter of priorities.

[mountn man]

If our carriers had been wiped out at Pearl, you can bet these dates would have been moved up and the carriers put into service even earlier

Now you're just talking stupid.

The Yorktown keel was laid the first of Dec. 1941 the very fact that she was commissioned 1 year later is a miracle in itself.

As a naval officer, you should know, you don't take a brand new ship (and crew) just throw them out there. That's what sea trials are for. To find the bugs in ships and repair them, BEFORE putting out, then finding out your ship can't do what you need it to do.

Virtually every ship comes out of drydock with some problems.

Frances De Gaulle through a propeller during her sea trials. The Queen Mary 2 threw a bow thruster door.

You don't throw a green crew together and expect them to fight well together. When a ship is up and running, to add new crew members is one thing, but to go from zero?! PLEASE! Like I said, The Essex was commissioned on April '43. She didn't ENTER SERVICE until Aug. of '43 Her construction and sea trials were already fast tracked. Now your saying they could have moved it up even faster. You laud, in one breath, the MIRACLE of what the US accomplished in 3-1/2 years, then in the next say that the US was sandbagging. That we weren't giving it our all.

There ISN'T ONE Essex class carrier that went from ORDERING to Keel laid in less than 12 months.

There isn't one that went from laid to launch in less than 12 months.

None went from launch to commission in less than 4 months.

And none had sea trials less than 3 months.

To say we would have moved ANY of those time lines up is foolishness.

You don't just cut the top off a cruiser today and weld a flight deck on tomorrow. There is the whole design and ordering process. Then the building process. Even if we cram all that into 12 months, there is still the shake down.

You're sounding like a liberal with your flights of fantasy. Time to get back to reality.

[kabar]

The Yorktown keel was laid the first of Dec. 1941 the very fact that she was commissioned 1 year later is a miracle in itself.

The first three Essex class carriers had their construction, commissioning, and sea trials accelerated. If our Pacific Fleet aircraft carriers had been wiped out, I am confident that the construction of the carrier fleet would have been accelerated even more. Miracles were a common occurrence when it came to the US industrial machine turning out ships, planes, tanks, ammo, etc.

As a naval officer, you should know, you don't take a brand new ship (and crew) just throw them out there. That's what sea trials are for. To find the bugs in ships and repair them, BEFORE putting out, then finding out your ship can't do what you need it to do.

My first assignment in the navy was to a new ship that had just completed its sea trials. I understand the process. I also know that when we are at war, the process is accelerated. Sometimes, you are forced to do things that aren't permitted in peacetime. Again, we are dealing with a hypothetical. What our nation did in WWII exceeded what anyone thought possible in terms of mobilizing for war. You just want to dismiss it.

You don't throw a green crew together and expect them to fight well together. When a ship is up and running, to add new crew members is one thing, but to go from zero?! PLEASE! Like I said, The Essex was commissioned on April '43. She didn't ENTER SERVICE until Aug. of '43 Her construction and sea trials were already fast tracked. Now your saying they could have moved it up even faster. You laud, in one breath, the MIRACLE of what the US accomplished in 3-1/2 years, then in the next say that the US was sandbagging. That we weren't giving it our all.

We were giving it our all. But the top priority was defeating the Germans. If our entire Pacific Fleet carrier force had been wiped out, priorities by necessity would have changed. More resources would have been devoted to reconstitute the force.

We mobilized 12 million people. The training wasn't all that great, but we had to get people into the field. My father and his four brothers served (3 Army, 1 Navy, and 1 USMC) and they certainly didn't receive the same training that would have been done in peacetime. Hell, we sent submarines into battle with torpedoes that didn't work. We learned a lot after the first contact with the enemy. What made the US the exception is that we improved the quality of our weaponry to a far greater extent than the Germans and Japanese. We had the luxury of a secure country free from enemy attacks. We also had easy access to the necessary raw materials, something the Japanese did not have.

You don't just cut the top off a cruiser today and weld a flight deck on tomorrow. There is the whole design and ordering process. Then the building process. Even if we cram all that into 12 months, there is still the shake down. You're sounding like a liberal with your flights of fantasy. Time to get back to reality.

You don't build a 6,500,000 sq ft office building in 16 months from breaking ground to dedication. But we did. The Seabees had a saying, which is inscribed on their memorial in DC, "With willing hearts and skillful hands, the difficult we do at once; the impossible takes a bit longer." Anyone who underestimates the ingenuity and resourcefulness of America is a fool.