Posted on 02/26/2015 7:28:34 PM PST by marktwain
I was either in, or worked for, the U.S. Army for over 30 years. During that time I had some experience with what guards were issued for ammunition. My brother brought my attention to a video done about F-15s in Bitburg, Germany, in 1981, at the height of the cold war, only a few year before NATO won. It is titled "The Wing". In the video you can see the Tech Sergeant being issued magazines. He is issued four magazines, all have rounds in them. He makes sure his chamber is clear, and inserts one magazine. In the screen-shot (about 7:26 on the video) you can see the other three magazines in his left hand. They are clearly 30 round magazines for the M16 or variants.
If they were loaded with 28-29 rounds each, I would be pleasantly surprised. I was surprised to see that he received four magazines with rounds in them. It would not make sense to issue him four magazines with five rounds each, when he could be issued one magazine with 20 rounds.
The reason that my curiosity is aroused is that my experience has been far different. As this was a commercially produced video made in cooperation with the military, the number of magazines may have been exaggerated for dramatic effect, disinformation purposes, or operational security.
My first experience with ammunition issued to guards was in California, six years earlier than the video. I had been assigned extra duty as a military game warden on the Hunter Liggett Military Reservation. I was not issued a weapon, but carried my own, an Argentine Ballister Molina .45 that accepted Colt magazines. It was a decent pistol, and did not have the grip safety of the Colt 1911. My partner carried a model 19 Smith & Wesson .357. We both carried them fully loaded with extra ammunition.
We had been briefed about a potential threat. A tip had been received that elements of the Symbionese Liberation Army (SLA) were considering a raid on an Ammunition Supply Point (ASP) somewhere in California. We received a report of shots being fired behind the ASP, and took our Jeep to investigate.
We did not find anything. The way back around the ASP was mountainous and long, so we decided to short cut back toward the headquarters area through the ASP. The guard stopped us with a hand signal. We stopped. He pawed at his shirt pocket. We moved forward. He stopped us, and moved back the distance that we had moved forward. He pawed at his pocket; we moved forward. Everything was repeated. Finally, we got out of the Jeep, he made it be known that he needed to see ID. We tossed it to him. He wanted to maintain distance. After verification, he let us pass through the ASP.
I was curious about the pocket pawing, and asked about it. It turned out that the guards were issued one .45 magazine with five rounds in it, and it was to be kept buttoned in the shirt pocket. Very Barney Fife. Everyone that I talked to thought it was a stupid policy.
The next experience was in Panama, at the Rodman ASP, 1985-89. I do not think the guards there were Marines; they might have been Army, Air Force, or Navy. For some reason, Air Force comes to mind. They were allowed one magazine for their M16s. Trouble with Noriega was heating up prior to the U.S. Invasion (Operation Just Cause), after a drunken Noriega had declared war in a Panamanian Television program. It was not clear that he intended to declare war; but he clearly said that Panama was in a state of war with the United States.
At Rodman, the guard's issued magazine and five rounds were to be kept in a magazine pouch. If a guard did not have all five rounds at the end of his shift, the entire company was turned out to hunt for the missing round. Guards were confronted by armed poachers several times. One SOF member (almost certainly a SEAL) was killed by a poacher while training on a night patrol at Ft. Sherman, while I was there, but the policy did not change until the Marines took over security in the face of growing Noriega regime hostility.
There have been other instances in which U.S. military security personnel were not allowed to have loaded weapons, or allowed only limited ammunition in the face of a deadly threat. The bombing of the Marine Barracks in Lebanon in 1983 was one, others have been mentioned in the news.
I would like to know this: What experience did you have with ammunition issued to U.S. military forces on guard duty; and were you issued more than five rounds of ammunition?
©2015 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.
Link to Gun Watch
And in my previous assignment at Ubon RTAFB Thailand I was issued 480 rounds for the M16, until the last week before we closed down the place. We were then taken to the firing range, given an old rusty Vietnam War reject M16, and we shot up all the 5.56 ammo that was in the armory but one 20 round mag for each of us.
You are correct. AF Security Police (not the Law Enforcement side of the house) were given 120 rounds for the M16. Overseas it was bumped to to 240 rounds. That is my SP experience (1973-1984), but it could have been different based upon where you were and what you were guarding. The most I’ve had to carry was 480 rounds during my stint in Thailand in 1975.
We also had access to and were trained on using the Mark 19 40mm, .50 cal, and 81mm mortar.
I was EOD so just observed, what an when we were drawing from your armory where we stored ours also.... ya’ll were air base defense heavy back then......What was it called.....SPEC’s Security Police Elements for Contingencies or something to that effect ??
NKP 73....Sawadi Cop !!
Yes. We had no aircraft at Ubon while I was there. I spent most of my time guarding the bom dump, lumber yard, a South VN AF F-5 (escaped from Saigon with bullet holes) and other “stuff”. Mayaguez Incident occurred while I was there. Lost some folks I knew in that helo crash. Was one of the last out. 8th SPS at Ubon and then transfered to 8th SPS Kunsan AB Korea.
The most exciting thing that happened to me while on night guard duty was being surprise-attacked and knocked to the ground by a VERY large owl. My helmet liner was completely ruined by its talons.
Good ole days,,,,,riding the bhat bus chasing LBFM’s, rice starch in our uniforms , hooch roofing made from sheets of tiger and budwiser beer cans before they were cut into cans, 7.62 brass melted into little buddy’s.....ahhhhh yes, you ever meet a sky cop over there named Ron Sears ?? .....:o)
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