Posted on 09/22/2014 12:52:04 AM PDT by Hetty_Fauxvert
Before I get started with my question (and boy, do I need ideas!) I want to note that I'm a *secular* Conservative, and do not identify as a Christian. So any forthcoming ideas from y'all that are based strictly on Bible teachings, etc. are not going to be terribly useful to me.
My problem: Our twin boys are 7 (pushing 8) and homeschooled. They probably know more about history than any other seven-year-olds in town, but I'll admit I've skipped over some areas of education so far. One of those "skipped over" areas is the concept of homosexuality. I wanted to wait until they were a bit older to bring it up (or wait until they asked me about it) but now my hand is being forced.
My husband and I belong to a games night group which has a monthly meeting at members' houses. Next month it's our turn to host. We've been a part of this group for 12 years, and have become good friends with several people who are members. It's important to me not to mess this up.
On Saturday I attended the monthly games night at someone else's house, and there were several new people there. Two of the new men introduced each other as one another's husbands. They seemed to have a good time, and made a point of saying they'd definitely come to next month's games night . . . at our house.
The area where we live is a particularly liberal bastion in California. There was no point in me saying anything about their being "husbands," so I didn't. My problem is: What do I say to our young sons in preparation for the meeting next month at our house?
My own "take" on homosexuality (particularly in men) is that sometimes it appears to be innate, though many times it appears to be a learned behavior. Whichever it is, I cannot regard it as "normal," in the way that the gay agenda wants us all to do. It seems to me that the ones who actually appear to be gay from the start have what is basically a birth defect. So in the same way that I wouldn't say, "Yay for spina bifida! Yay for cleft palate! They're great!" I feel that I cannot celebrate the "normality" of homosexuality.
I have had gay friends in the past, especially in college, and while I noted that they often seemed very conflicted and self-destructive, they were not bad people. I don't hate or fear gays. I just want them to not insist that I wave their rainbow flag for them. ;)
Anyway, I anticipate that when I tell our sons that there is such a thing as men being married to men, and women to women, I think their little heads are going to spin around. I want our sons to understand that we should be kind to these people, as we would be kind to anyone who had a problem they couldn't seem to help, but I also want them to realize I don't regard it as normal or desirable.
And lastly, I do NOT want my little darlings to bring this question up at the party! LOL! But I've had bad results in the recent past when I asked them to keep their little mouths shut on something. At this young age, it actually seemed to focus their attention on the issue and make them bring it up at the worst possible time. Reverse psychology, I guess. (I thought about not saying anything at all about homosexuality before our games night, but because our kids are gregarious, and also because they're homeschooled, they think they can focus in on anything they're interested in at any time and grill the adults about it. So I can just see one of our boys hearing one of the new members yapping about "my husband" and saying, "Wait! What do you mean, your husband?" And then the fat would be in the fire.)
So, many thanks for your thoughts and especially IDEAS from other parents on how to deal with this issue. Looking forward to seeing them.
You so nailed it.
The idea that marriage was linked to romantic love only is a huge part of the reason that the institution is falling apart. The other thing that irritates me is that there are very few penalties for breaking that contract any more.
First: why do people have sex? the simplest answer is to produce offspring (the continuance of the species).
You could also look into the role of pheromones as part of the sexual equation: again -- ultimately aimed to the continuance of the species.
Now, how about long-term monogamy...
First, the argument from common sense: since sex, ultimately, is about producing offspring for the continuance of the species, monogamy is also aimed toward that function as well. Human children take a long, long time to rear, relatively speaking.
Biology supports this...again by design. Look up the psychological effects of the hormones oxytocin and vasopressin (if you do a search on "oxytocin vasopressin monogamy" there are a number of scholarly articles out there that can give you all the information you need on the subject).
If a person ends up having sexual relations with multiple, partners, the hormones released with each sexual partner will end up really confusing this "bonding" that occurs as a direct result of those hormones released during orgasm (yes, oxytocin is released in women in the largest quanity during childbirth and nursing, but it is also released during orgasm)
The above is the argument for long-term heterosexual monogamy. Narcissism and hedonism tend to defeat this...
The argument against homosexuality ultimately is that it is a perversion of the above.
It really isn't "sex" in the truest sense of the word, as it is utterly impossible under any circumstances for a couple of people to produce life as a result of genital-to-oral or genital-to-anal activity. But yet, as it results in orgasm, those hormones (oxytocin and vasopressin) are released. So these couples, particularly female-female couples, have the possibility of bonding. But it is an utter perversion of the real thing that is part of the design of the human species.
One thing that I have observed in my dealings with homosexual people is that they generally have an excessive desire for other people in society to fully accept their "preference" as totally normal. A "whatever" answer on the part of a heterosexual person with whom they have dealings is unacceptable: they want you to embrace their choices in life.
On a civil (societal) level, marriage is the recognition by society, at large, of this fundamental social unit (husband, wife, and the offspring that result from this union of husband and wife). It is society's encouragement of that relationship...and the mating that is the central core of the relationship.
The concept of the marriage of two people of the same sex is fundamentally a societal endorsement of the perversion (twisting) of homosexual sex. Ultimately, it results in the self-destruction of society.
Here's the tough part of the argument: if you endorse premarital or extramarital sex; if you endorse (or plan to endorse) the idea of "no-fault divorce"; if you endorse the idea of couples sterilizing themselves so they can't produce offspring...it will be very difficult to logically oppose the idea of homosexual conduct and of homosexual "marriage."
Kids are not dumb and they will note inconsistencies immediately.
If, on the other hand, you are consistent in the morality that you support, the argument against homosexual behavior and homosexual "marriage" is no stretch at all.
Hope the above helps.
As far as the kids go, they’re pretty smart. Be upfront and tell them what you think and they’ll get it after awhile. If it comes up at your party then great, it’s out in the open and if folks get offended them tell them to get the hell out.
If you have or have had gay friends then you support the lifestyle. I don’t associate with or have anything to do with freaks and that’s what they are in my book.
(did I say scares...? SCARCE. Sheesh.)
I tell my kids what it is. It’s obviously a mental disorder.
Marriage is about reproduction.
It is stunning to know that you would allow such a couple into your home tobring that ‘influence’into you childrens lives. The world WILL bring it to them, but for Mom and Dad to ALLOW it, INVITE it into the home is flat out stunning. ESPECIALLY since ‘gay’ men frequently target younger boys for use. Facts are facts, even if distasteful.
But I guess secular is as secular does. Just a small nugget to think on.......you say you do not identify as a Christian, fine, your decision. But that decision does not ivalidate God, nor His Word, nor its goodness and rightness. And that word tells me that the sexual behaviors of those who call themselves ‘gay’ is abomination, the very same word used to describe the sexual behaviors of those who engage with animals for sex. Interesting that God would label both behaviors with the same word, is it not? Would you allow a person who is a known beastophile into your home?
When one turns away FROM something, then it can be said that one turns TOWARDS something else. It can be argued, if you turn away from God, then you turn to the devil. Turn away from good, you turn towards evil.
Allow me to paraphrase a pertinent scripture. What goes around comes around, in spades.
Explain to your children that the primary purpose of marriage is the formation of children, and how this is enhanced by the presence of a mother and a father. Show them, in your own household, how the two of you parents are very different people, and that a large part of that difference derives from the fact that one of you is a man and the other a woman. Do not be shy about how your roles and outlooks differ, and how you often bring opposite points of view to an issue, and how their lives are enriched by this dynamic relationship.
Have them contrast their relationships with other boys to their relationships with girls. Encourage them to see how their relationships with boys are fairly straightforward, and that they agree on most things as a matter of course. When they disagree, problems are resolved quickly and easily. Have them contrast this with the more complicated problem of dealing with girls, and how these relationships are full of tension, opposite views and mystery. Explain to them, in no uncertain terms, that the last thing they want in life is to wind up with somebody just like themselves, and that marriages of opposites are enriching, while marriages of similar people are boring and sterile.
If you approach it from a “secular” standpoint, you will ultimately fail.
Psalm 111:10
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; all who follow his precepts have good understanding. To him belongs eternal praise.
You might want to rethink the “not a Christian part”. I began to 20 years ago. It took 5 years to really study and decide. It really is the ONLY way of living that is consistent, coherent, and (actually) logical. Seek Truth.
Then, discuss the word homosexuality, and let them know that "homo" (from the Greek 'same as') and "sexuality" (referring to the act of reproduction of the species) when combined, create a word that is an oxymoron.
Tell them the correct word(s) that describes the activity of the mutual arousal cycle of the reproductive organ, make sure they know that such activity is abnormal and self-defeating, and go from there, emphasizing the sociopathic features of the activity, and the kind of diseases associated with it.
We had no gay friends or acquaintances when my children were growing up so it never became an issue. Now they are hetero (we just strived to model a good marriage for them) but tolerant of gayness. If I had to do it again, I would say that humans come in two basic flavors, male and female, and that a real, grown-up marriage requires one of each to create new life. Gays just pretend to be married, because part of them didn’t really grow up, and we just let them be that way if they want to. Hope that helps.
Remind them that sexual reproduction doesn’t work that way with human beings. If they’re not already somewhat aware of that then good luck!
I was cornered into teaching my kids about the birds and the bees when I really didn’t think that they were ready and it still irritates me.
* * *
Actually, I bought a “birds and bees” book for them a couple of months ago but haven’t sat down for “the talk.” (This is largely because I need to razor out one page of the book that has a drawing that is MUCH too advanced for this age, if you ask me! The rest of the book is good, though.) Funny, they know all about what eggs and sperm do and how the cells divide etc. But I haven’t gone into any detail about *how* egg and sperm land in position! Guess it’s time for that. ;)
What do you say to your young sons about life after death?
What do you believe will happen after you die?
If nothing, then tell your sons that fag guys are OK being married because everything is relative and there is no right nor wrong.
If that's what you believe OK, but don't be a hypocrite about it.
Secular conservative? No right or wrong, it's all good.
Gays just pretend to be married, because part of them didn’t really grow up, and we just let them be that way if they want to.
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I like this strategy. Also, we have a foster kitten right now who has deformed paws (poor little guy!) so looking at the kitten, our boys can *see* that sometimes animals (and by extension, people) are not formed correctly, either in their body or sometimes mentally.
if you feel the need to “prep” your kids then you obviously aren’t comfortable with it....if you aren’t comfortable with it....why are you letting them into your home at all?
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This is a reasonable question. Two-part answer: One, I’m not willing to let these newcomers run me and mine out of a group that we enjoy being part of. And Two, I have to teach my kids about this stuff at some point, so . . . I guess that point is now. I just felt the need to bat around ideas about *how* to teach them. And thought that my FReeper friends were a good group to turn to. ;)
God invented marriage, not man. God designated marriage, not as a contractual agreement, but as a covenant. Governments may be able to regulate contracts, but a covenant is based on the laws of God and not man. Thus marriage is an institution outside of the bounds of government.
Government was happy to intrude into the marriage because when we gave tax exemptions based on marital status, or when we taxed a person’s estate upon their death, or when the State stepped in to direct the disposition of an estate, or when we used the State to enforce marital fidelity or grant divorces, we had to allow the State to define who was “married” and who was not.
As with all things Statist, the secular State’s definition of marriage and divorce has come to have more weight in society than God’s definition.
God defines marriage as being between men and women. While many men whom God called righteous in the Bible practiced polygamy, Jesus is quoted in Matthew chapter 19 that from the beginning of humanity, it was God’s intent that marriage would only be one man and one woman. In Mark chapter 10, Jesus stated that God, not man, joins the husband and wife and the two are “one flesh”, an act that by its very nature can only be heterosexual.
God defines sexual relations between people of the same sex as against His law, that is immoral. In Revelation 22:15, a book dictated to John by Jesus, God tells us that anyone who practices sexual immorality will not be granted eternal life.
These are ecclesiastical considerations that are outside of secular government, that is unless we want government to police sexual behavior between consenting adults based on the standards of the Bible, assuming we can agree what those are. Do we want Congress to have that debate?
Maybe it is time to get government out of the marriage business and to return it to the private sphere. The problem for me today is that people who want to call themselves “married” against God’s law (as I read it) are willing to use the State to force me to recognize that marriage, which I cannot do. The want to have the State’s public education system indoctrinate my children that homosexual marriage is “normal”. They want to force me to subsidize the homosexual marriage in the tax code just like the godly marriage is subsidized, and they will use state agencies to punish me for “discrimination” if I decline to accept their status in any way.
If the State must force me to acknowledge its power to declare two men to be “married”, then I must support efforts to remove that power from the State. If people who don’t want God defining their personal morality demand a separation of church and State then let us also have separation of marriage and State as well. If those people don’t want any displays of the Ten Commandments in government buildings, they cannot hide behind the Commandments that protect marriage when it comes to “marriage” that God cannot and will not sanction.
But then again, if God doesn’t exist, then none of this matters. Never mind.
I wouldn’t worry with anything the kids might say.It is what it is and the bent ones just need to deal with it.
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