Posted on 03/01/2011 3:52:18 AM PST by wistful
"I suggest no conclusion as to whether Obama is eligible or not. But the citizens whom the media and political pundits dismiss as “birthers” have raised legitimate questions. That legitimacy is fueled by Obama’s curious, even bizarre, refusal to consent to the release of the relevant records. Perhaps there is nothing to the issues raised. Or perhaps there is.
This is potentially serious business. If it turns out that Obama knew he was ineligible when he campaigned and when he took the oath as President, it could be the biggest political fraud in the history of the world. As long as Obama refuses to disclose the records, speculation will grow and grow without any necessary relation to the truth. The first step toward resolving the issue is full discovery and disclosure of the facts.
The courts are not the only entities empowered to deal with such a question. A committee of the House of Representatives could be authorized to conduct an investigation into the eligibility issue. It is difficult to imagine, to borrow [Woodrow] Wilson’s phrase, a more pressing “affair of government” than the question of whether a sitting President obtained his office illegally, and perhaps even by fraud.
An investigating body must not prejudge the case. Its concern must be, first, to put the facts on the record and then to consider whatever legislation or other remedy might be appropriate in light of those facts."
(Excerpt) Read more at truebluenz.wordpress.com ...
This guy is Charles E. Rice, professor emeritus at Notre Dame Law School, and he is on to something. We need to let Republican Reps know about this opinion, and press them to do as the Professor suggests. Please get this out to as many people as you can. If we do not press them, they will do nothing.
However a minor point...Prof. Rice is a "retired" professor of Notre Dame not an active member of the faculty.
Does Charles E Rice know that 0bama is “black” because he sounds racist to me. /s
This is potentially the most huge story in the history of the universe and its left there to fester and ferment without anyone lifting a finger to find out the truth and shed some light not only on the missing birth certificate but all of the hundreds of other missing 0bama records. The lame stream media who got The Won elected in the first place only ridicule those who would like to see the records. Just who knows what favors The Won is giving out to keep his Won status? He is the most dangerous man in the world. But, who won on American Idol and do you know the new contestants in Dancing With the Stars? The media knows this the news Americans need to know.
LLS
Geez, thanks for that, I’ll fix it.
Congress could pass legislation to prevent this issue from ever occurring again, but they won’t. A solution will come from the states who at the end of the day control who appears on ballots in their states.
For some reason the Republican Political Party has no interest is pursuing the truth of this. If the shoe were on the other foot I think the Democrat Party would be shouting from the rafters in unison. Where’s the records?
My letter to Professor Rice, warts and all:
Dear Prof. Rice,
I want to be as polite as I possibly can be with you. I have toiled long and hard and continue to do so on the issue of Obama’s ineligibility. So, I always read articles that suggest a “different” approach with great interest.
However, Professor, I take serious issue with many aspects of how you have characterized this serious matter, and I am afraid you are not offering what I would regard as fruitful suggestions. It is said that the power of an idea is it’s ability to create other ideas. Your article does that to an extent, but at the same time, it is troubling how much is overlooked, whether by accident or design.
You do touch on the key points in the debate over natural born citizenship but in a way that I find fails to lock horns.
If I may:
1) You get off to a very bad start with the use of the word “speculation.” The word suggests a lack of factual information. Nothing could be further from the truth, sir. The “truth” is staring us in the face. If Barack Obama, Sr. is really his father, then he is ineligible for office.
Instead, the pain and fear induced by the realization that we have hatched a cuckoo’s egg in the White House nest, if you will, has created a uniform paralysis throughout the federal government where EVERYONE refuses to address the most basic question. That pain and fear has produced incredible denial and a remarkable inability to recognize what would otherwise be factual information. One example is the Senate resolution (I believe it was S. 512) provided cover by John McCain by declaring him a natural born citizen. Know that then Senator Obama sought to introduce language which would have also given him status as a natural born citizen. The Senate rejected it. So, let’s have that debate. To me, there is little question that piece of information has probative value. You may want to question what went on behind closed doors - but that would just be speculation. Instead, I offer that when you look at similar efforts to redefine “natural born” including even a bill by Sen. Issa, of all people, limiting natural born to one parent as a citizen, they have been rejected. This has happened more than once in American legislative history. While I don’t have all the specific references, they are out there.
The attempt to introduce “new language” is tacit recognition there IS a definition of natural born citizenship, even if it is (not) spelled out in statutory law. Moreover, one no less than Senator Bingham made a clear statement about what underlies natural born citizenship. I mean, sir, how much speculation are you going to indulge in over arguing about the word “parents” as opposed to “parent”? This is not hard, but others insist and creating a lot of phony and baseless fog around a simple and robust point: It takes two to have a baby.
The folks who insist there is no definition of natural born citizenship are setting a narrow and false standard. Period.
2) Natives are not the same as natural born. I know I am being a little picky here with your language but....The native-born category is a product of twisted reasoning from Kim Wong Ark. Again, if I may, I am not arguing for a universal standard of national citizenship, but consider how bizarre the reasoning is. If American parents are traveling in, say, Russia, and their child is born there, are they going to say the child is Russian or has any sort of claim on Russian citizenship? I think not. But that is the problem created by Kim Wong Ark.
3) Certification of Live Birth - There is a rich and deep literature the media is avoiding like the plague which establishes the COLB is a fraud. On this, two points. First, the leading expert, “Polarik” is the son of parents who were pioneers in digital photography. He learned everything from them and at a time when personal computers were growing in sophistication. So, he has personal and deep knowledge of how to manipulate digital images. However, he also got his advanced degrees in areas other than computer forensics. So, the media uses this as an excuse for not talking to him. But he clearly has the knowledge. Anyone who has grown up, as I, in the personal computer/laser printer/pixel manipulation/DOS era can understand what Polarik is saying, and it certainly passes the smell test. But, there are others too. The conclusion is the same - the document is a fraud in so many different ways, it would take some time to lay it all out. Second point: The Hawaii Dept. of Health refuses to certify they issued that image you see on the computer screen. This should send up lots of red flags. Despite claims of official signatures on the document, the supposed source refuses to acknowledge it came from them. That alone is grounds for an investigation.
Professor, you need to realize that without that COLB, Obama has produced NOTHING to establish his citizenship in any capacity. The notion, as some argue, that he is entitled to his privacy clearly have it all wrong. There is no information that establishes with authority who he is and where he comes from. None. Not enough people are waking up to the fact that the media provides this vast echoing illusion of who “Obama” is. Without that echo, it becomes more painfully obvious that there is a problem. For all we know, “Obama” is a nom de guerre just as was the name Yasser Arafat. Sorry, I just had to do that...
4) You are right that none of the judges in any of the suits have rendered a decision based on the merits of the case. However, I find you treat this point far too lightly. To me, this is a grave injustice, it shows how spineless the judges are and leaves many many people with the impression that the judiciary is also covering for Obama.
The implication that they have not provided a clear ruling because of the “bewildering” set of claims is mere sophistry. The judges have already shown they can do whatever they want in this matter without impunity. Therefore, I ask you, since judges routinely ignore the U.S. Constitution and just about any other law that does not suit their fancy, why could they not rule that green eyed martians and Obama both qualify as natural born citizens. The answer? They can’t. They know full well what the facts are and there is nothing bewildering about them at all. You embed a key fact inside a list of “bewildering array of claims”. His supposed father was never an American citizen, never intended to be one. That is very clear from Obama’s own account of his family history. That has probative value too.
There is nothing to speculate on here. Natural born citizenship requires BOTH parents to be citizens. As noted above, attempts to change that “implied” definition have failed routinely with legislative initiatives. Moreover, each one of those “bewildering” claims are legitimate issues for any committee devoted to the truth. Moreover, the FBI has been repeatedly beseeched to investigate. What a surprise they have done nothing.
So, this leads me to a note of confusion, Professor. This quote: “On the other hand, it is fair to say that the Obama controversy involves significant issues of fact and law that deserve some sort of speculation.”
Correct me if I am wrong, but that statement seems to violate everything else you have said in the article. How did you get from “speculation” and “bewildering array of claims” to that statement? To me, it doesn’t follow.
Also, you said on the failure of the suits: “Their lack of success cannot be ascribed simply to a hyper-technical evasion of judicial responsibility.” Having stood before two courts on this matter, I can tell you that is just plain wrong. And it is much more than just “evasion.” At one point, Judge Carter was the only person in the country who had stated publicly he would listen objectively to Orly Taitz’s case. That was, until he hired two law clerks who had worked for the opposing law firm - Patrick Coie. No one can tell me that move did not taint the outcome. The case was quickly thrown out after those two clowns showed up. Plus the judge issued a $20,000 sanction against her - which I think he was forced to do. That’s my “speculation.”
Also, you make no reference to the “mock trial” handled by Rev. Manning. Again, pain and fear paralyze people from looking at facts. Rev. Manning pointed out that the NYS Supreme Court (I know that is not their highest court) monitored the proceedings. He emphasized that the court would have cried foul over any missteps in how the mock trial was carried out. There were none, and yes Obama was found guilty. Again, the media buries these things with all the vigor and frantic energy of a badger.
5) The sojourn with Woodrow Wilson was instructive. I think it establishes him as clearly one of our weaker and more destructive presidents. The inability to establish a clear set of principles by which to govern shows he did not really understand government in the first place.
Somewhere there has to be a course in constitutional law that couples a deep understanding of political philosophy (starting with Plato and Aristotle) and extended consideration of both the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers, so that people begin to understand what it truly means to govern.
His confusion over investigative powers shows a superficial grasp of how governments function. Yes, Machiavelli would be laughing at him.
The “power” to investigate ends up being like water when it encounters a barrier. Water just goes around.
Frankly, what “powers of investigation” are there to discuss when one such as Herbert Hoover, in his early days, would automatically start a file on each person he enountered in his daily activities. Did he “investigate” someone? I don’t know. Is collecting information the same as investigating? Moreover, I have had the pleasure of reading some “investigative reports” from and for congressional committees in my field - biotechnology. You bet they were substandard.
It’s great to have a committee. But there is no way to keep the process from being queered by people who are determined to steer the committee right off the road. Too many times now have I seen people go out their way to make sure that only the wrong questions are asked. Clinton’s impeachment is the textbook example.
Anyway, thank you for the article, Professor, but the real message is that he is obviously ineligible and everyone, democrat and republican is too scared to announce the truth.
The tenor of the beginning of your article suggests there is no basis for investigation, but you end up suggesting there should be an investigation. I think it would have been much stronger if you started out noting that Obama is obviously avoiding answering questions. In the spirit of government waste and abuse, he insists on spending millions of dollars to avoid disclosure of a document which would only cost around $10 to disclose.
My proposal, Professor, is that history will remember you much better if you become a loud and persistent proponent of an investigation now because there are too many blatantly obvious issues all labeled “Constitutional crisis.”
LLS
“A solution will come from the states who at the end of the day control who appears on ballots in their states.”
Yes, let us hope so, but this guy’s solution takes it out of the hands of the Supremes who are probably never going to do anything because the issue is too big for them.
Republican Reps should be informed of this essay, being as it is written by a man of some legal standing. Can’t do any harm to email them a copy and ask them to form the kind of investigative committee he is talking about. Surely if they get enough letters they would have to act.
Just put pelosi on the stand. She had to validate it. Which means she had to see the birth certificate. When did she see it and where?
Just put pelosi on the stand. She had to validate it. Which means she had to see the birth certificate. When did she see it and where?
Just wonder Rice being am retired professor has to endure backlash because he was in opposition to Notre dame’s offering up Obama doing the usual Graduation, Honorary Doctorate because of the Catholic Churches stance on abortion. Rice may be saying enough, because Notre Dame has lost millions in Alumni Donations because Nore Dames stupidity. He is telling the HR to get this done about Obama’s eligibility because it is going forward and the Judicial body refuses to do an appropriate rendering claiming ‘lack of standing’.
As would legislation at the state level.
I am sure a “professor” would like nothing better than to get people putting pressure on the newly elected GOP house to push this issue.
They only stand to lose, which is what he wants.
This happened, in the case of "Obama", on January 6, 2009.
What's done is done.
“My letter to Professor Rice, warts and all:”
Your letter is quite correct, but the issue the Professor raises is should we continue to pursue the matter in the Supreme Court of form the kind of Investigative Committee he suggests. Are you saying such a Committee would be too open to manipulation? But so have the court hearings so far right?
I like that idea.
This fellow writes knowledgeably and well. America would do well to heed his learned advice.
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