Re:"Mal and Val - not Ann and the Old Man" Any evidence Valerie Sarruf is Obama's mom? (vanity)

Seizethecarp vanity commentary on Dr. Ron J. Polland youtube dated 08/07/11 ^ | August 1, 2012 | Seizethecarp (vanity)

[Seizethecarp]

"Meet The Parents....of alias Barack Obama. Black Sunni Muslim father and White Lebanese Christian mother. Born in the ME, raised in Indonesia, became BHO II in 1982." Dr. Ron J. Polland

The “Mal-Val” youtube video at the link was posted by FReeper Polarik (Dr. Ron Polland) in August of 2011 and while morphing the image of a woman named “Val” into an image of Obama, he insinuates that “Val” is Obama’s mom. One year later this youtube has only 1,150 views.

In July 2012, two FReepers associated the woman, “Val,” in Polarik’s Youtube with Lebanese actress Valerie Sarruf and have posted multiple images of her at various ages on FR eligibility threads. I am opening this thread to invite discussion of and links to any evidence that either supports or refutes a claim that Valerie Sarruf is Barack Obama’s mother, with or without Malcolm X being his father.

Where could Malcolm X and Valerie Sarruf have been in 1960 when baby Barry would have been conceived? Is there any evidence that Sarruf could have been pregnant and delivered a baby in 1961? In what country could the baby have been delivered? How and when could the alleged Mal-Val baby have been inserted into the identity and life narrative of the person we have come to know as Barack Hussein Obama?

Full disclosure: I refute categorically all of the Mal-Val narrative as wildly speculative and unsupported by any evidence that I have seen so far.

For several years now a shadowy coterie of FReepers styling themselves as “researchers” has gone onto nearly every FR eligibility thread to aggressively refute all evidence that Stanley Ann Dunham was Barack Obama’s mother. They have actually declared flat out that she was never in Hawaii before 1963, contrary to the voluminous evidence including INS FOIA documents!

Requests for links or any evidence that Stanley Ann is NOT the mom have been frequently met with abusive ad hominem attacks and accompanied by claims that ALL documentary evidence showing her to have been in Hawaii in 1960 and 1961 is forged, but no credible evidence of forgery has offered. I make this observation as a retired Certified Fraud Examiner and CPA.

For years the “researchers” had claimed mysteriously to have conclusive evidence that a different woman is Barry’s mom, but refused to reveal her name or any evidence other than her picture because the “researchers” claimed it would disappear from the net and/or from hard copy archives of the records. But this month, the “researchers” appear to have slipped up and revealed that Valerie Sarruf has been the woman whose identity they have been “protecting.” They have since attempted to walk back the revelation, but it is clear, IMO.

The “researchers” claim that they earnestly want to remove Obama from office. But wouldn’t revealing ALL EVIDENCE of a foreign mother and foreign birth (which they also claim) be the most logical approach to removing Obama rather than hiding the identity of this alternative mother for years while attacking FR threads that sincerely attempt to find out where Stanley Ann Dunham was when she gave birth to Barry?

In my opinion, the best evidence that Valerie Sarruf is NOT Barry’s mother is the mountain of evidence that Stanley Ann Dunham IS his mother, which the “researchers” have totally failed to refute.

Again, please use this thread for discussion of and links to any evidence that either supports or refutes a claim that Valerie Sarruf IS Barack Obama’s mother with or without Malcolm X being his father.

[Red Steel]

Some input from Mark Gillar the CCP videographer/documenter between FR's internecine warfare:

- - - - - - -

@MarkGillar: Soon we will learn that those who have the responsibility of protecting us have instead betrayed us. 10:17 PM - 5 Apr 2014

This is the quiet before the political storm. Arpaio about to change America's political landscape forever. 10:25 PM - 5 Apr 2014

@MarkGillar: Between now and the midterms, shocking revelations will be brought forward by Sheriff Joe. 10:29 PM - 5 Apr 2014

@MarkGillar: @informedblackmn LFBC stuff would be out already if not for other crimes discovered. LFBC just the tip of the iceberg. 10:39 PM - 5 Apr 2014

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Gillar likely has some inside information.

Dingbat OBots are all over his twitter site. Gillar gives it back at the Obama idiots. https://twitter.com/MarkGillar

[Fred Nerks]

On Mark’s website from years ago, he identified the lighter child as David in the professional photo of the two boys. Some here have switched the children.

No one switched anyone. Mark identified himself in TWO sets of images of two little boys on his webpage. One image was tinted, one posted later, in black and white. The boys on the left and right are the child he identified as himself.

The boy in the centre is the recent image assumed to be Mark, although the image on the book cover, which seems to have been released prematurely (there is no book) does not identify the children.

So what you are looking at is two images of the child Mark claims is himself, and the centre image claimed to be Mark as the result of an unidentified image on the cover of a book which has not been released. I would recomment not jumping to conclusions.

The problem would appear to be, that if one of these little ones grew up to be zero, and the other one should happen to be Mark, you've lost your 'David'

And I hate to break it to you, but that might suggest the darker of the two childen was born in 1961, not all that long before the little tiger on the left. Have fun!

[bgill]

As if you don’t remember bringing those pictures on Mark’s site to my attention years ago in the wee hours one night and starting all this about the light boy being Barry.

[Fred Nerks]

No, I don’t remember what I did years ago, and if it was in the middle of the night, it would be because of our time difference. Anyway, that last set of images should just about finish it. The question remains open.

[Fantasywriter]

There is no indication is these boys are anything more or less than who they were originally identified as: David and Mark.

[Fantasywriter]

correction: no indication *that* these boys, etc.

[little jeremiah]

Gillar and others connected with the CCP would not be so confidant if they did not have dy-no-mite.

The real deal - iow, the real story about who the freak in the WH is.

[Red Steel]

The latest. And you should be confident Lj as it looks like it could be sooner than later making it toooooo bad for OBots. It's coming...

- - - - - - - - -

"Sheriff Joe's Lead Investigator: Other Agencies Now Involved; Announcement In Near Future""

"Mike Zullo: Both investigations still going full force. March was only a target date. More information has surfaced and it is being vetted. Other agencies and people now involved. May take a little extra time. It is on track and is not going away. There will be an announcement in the very near future. Please be patient..."

http://www.birtherreport.com/2014/04/update-sheriff-joes-lead-investigator.html

The short YouTube clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNYiZ78EcIo

[little jeremiah]

More information has surfaced and it is being vetted.

Excellent.

[Brown Deer]

[Seizethecarp]

Cross-posting a Fred Nerks post to the Auntie Obituary thread:

Article on Aunt Zeituni’s death:

“Obama aunt who stayed in US illegally dies at 61”

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/8/obama-aunt-who-stayed-in-us-illegally-dies-at-61/?utm_source=RSS_Feed&utm_medium=RSS&utm_reader=feedly

Fred Nerks comment #35:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3142258/posts?page=35#35

(begin Fred Nerks post)

The Original ‘Auntie Thread’ was an excerpted post, the URL shows the article has been removed and there’s nothing in the archives.

Obama’s aunt angry at Trump (Now she claims family got letter from BHO Sr. in Hawaii)
WHDH-TV / CNN ^ | April 11, 2011

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2702976/posts?page=1

Here’s a reprint from another source:

Obama’s aunt furious Trump questions his birthplace
« on: April 09, 2011, 05:18:14 am »
(short newsvideo at link)

http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/local/12003999539847/obama-s-aunt-furious-trump-questions-his-birthplace/

Obama’s aunt furious Trump questions his birthplace

BOSTON — Donald Trump created controversy, questioning whether President Barack Obama was born in this country. Now the President’s aunt is saying Trump is insulting her family.

“He was born in Honolulu, Hawaii,”” said Zeituni Onyango.

Zeituni Onyango, President Obama’s aunt, says she’s angry and hurt about Donald Trump questioning the President’s birthplace by quoting her 88-year-old mother in Kenya, the President’s Grandmother.

“His grandmother is Kenya said he was born in Kenya and she was there and witnessed the birth,” said Trump. “Three weeks ago when I started I thought he was probably born in this country and now I really have a much bigger doubt.”

“A naked lie in the name of the Lord,” said Onyango. “He’s lying.”

From her home in South Boston, filled with pictures of her Mother and President Obama, his 58-year-old aunt says Trump’s accusations are bringing ridicule to her family back in Kenya. She described the billionaire’s words as degrading and hurtful.

“When you are doing politics you should leave the family aside,” said Onyango.

The President’s aunt says when she was a girl in Kenya in 1961, the President’s father, her brother, sent the family a letter announcing the birth of his son, the future President. She says the letter came from Hawaii.

“My brother was telling my mother how happy he was he had another baby boy on the other side,” said Onyango.

She now has strong words for Trump.

“I respect his wealth, but I only demand him to respect us,” said Onyango.

Onyango says she hopes her message gets to Trump.

“And I challenge him. Let him call me and we’ll talk,” said Onyango. “Let him come and ask me.”

Trump said he has people in Hawaii checking President Obama’s birth records. Onyango says they won’t find anything controversial.

(end Fred Nerks post)

[Seizethecarp]

From the article:

“The President’s aunt says when she was a girl in Kenya in 1961, the President’s father, her brother, sent the family a letter announcing the birth of his son, the future President. She says the letter came from Hawaii.

“’My brother was telling my mother how happy he was he had another baby boy on the other side,’ said Onyango.”

If Zeituni was age 61 when she died, she was born circa 1953 and would have been 8 years old when Barry was born and the alleged letter announcing his birth reached the family in Kenya.

A deposition of Zeituni regarding the claims she makes as reported in this news account 50 years after the fact would need to explore what she personally remembered about this 1961 birth announcement at age 8 as to who shared this news with her at that time. To what extent did she personally know BHO Sr., who explained to her that Sr. bigamously had a new wife. Kezia claimed to have no knowledge of any bigamy until years later, IIRC, and didn’t know about marriage to Ruth either until after an auto wreck when Ruth showed up, too.

[Seizethecarp]

Cross-posting from the Zeituni Obit thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3142258/posts?page=36#36

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/01/obama-aunt-zeituni-onyang_n_374965.html

“Onyango helped care for the president’s half brothers and sister while living with Barack Obama Sr. in Kenya. She moved to the United States in 2000 and applied for asylum in 2002, but her request was rejected and she was ordered deported in 2004.”

Insertion of Mal-Val narrative claims by Fred Nerks with no aupport anywhere:

“Yep. There she goes, the eye witness. She was nanny to the two boys Mark and the mythical ‘David’ and Auma, before the kenyan was killed in 1982.”

My Seizethecarp comment:

Fred Nerks has correctly seen that if Zeituni had been a baby-sitter in the home of Sr. and Ruth and IF the Mal-Val narrative that Roman (born Jan 1961) was there, she would have noticed that Baby David didn’t exist, that Mark was the younger boy (the lighter boy as claimed by FN) and that the older, darker boy was being raised by Sr. and Ruth.

Zeituni does not mention in any interview that I have seen a boy older than Mark with an unknown, non-Kenyan, non-tribal mother who has somehow inserted into Ruth Baker’s maternal care with no explanation as to who his mother is and what her relation to BHO Sr. would have been.

But Zeituni, who aggressively refutes “lies” about her family says nothing to refute Mark and David being Sr.’s two boys with Ruth and says nothing to indicate that they were not exactly who Mark and Ruth say they were.

The Huffpo article says Zeituni babysat “the president’s half-brothers and Auma.”

[WildHighlander57]

#1812: reprint gone also; would it be available via the wayback machine?

#1813: “..... If Zeituni was age 61 when she died,she was born circa 1953 and would have been 8 years old when Barry was born and the alleged letter announcing his birth reached the family in Kenya. .....”

Great observation!

She would have been about second grade... no way would she have been able to grasp anything beyond “you have a new nephew”.

:#1814: “..... Zeituni does not mention in any interview that I have seen a boy older than Mark with an unknown,non-Kenyan,non-tribal mother who has somehow inserted into Ruth Baker’s maternal care with no explanation as to who his mother is and what her relation to BHO Sr. would have been. ...”

Another good point.

Any older children would have been Kenyan on both sides from bho SR and Kezia (Malik, Auma).

And any younger children would have been the part kenyan children Mark and David.

If auntie was babysitting, it may be when she was 14; that puts the date at the earliest at around 1967.

This would have been when Ruth’s oldest boy Mark was two, and David newborn or not born yet.

This agrees with “auma and the half brothers” if David not born yet.

Brothers could have been more than two also.

[WildHighlander57]

And Malik having been born in 1958 would not have been too old to have been babysat by Auntie in 1967

[Brown Deer]

If auntie was babysitting, it may be when she was 14; that puts the date at the earliest at around 1967.

Why 14?

[WildHighlander57]

“.... it may be when she was 14..... around 1967.” was an estimate on my part.

If it was a couple years earlier, she’s 12, Mark is a few months old, Malik is seven, (not sure if Auma is nine or five, assuming two years at most between her and Malik).

And the huffpost article saying “babysat president’s half brothers and auma” does NOT include the president, otherwise it would have said “babysat president AND his half brothers and Auma”.

So we have half brothers Mark & Malik, and Auma, being babysat by Auntie in 1965 at the earliest, when Auntie was about 12.

About the family pictures of the boys:

Looking at pic that was on Mark’s website, the one with the right hand toddler’s head tilted, and grade school age boys on advance copy cover of Mark’s book,

Toddler on left is same as grade school age boy on left.

Toddler on right has same eyebrow structure as grade school boy.

Grade school age boy on left is younger than the one on the right.

Eyebrow structure of toddler on right and grade school boy on right match the current day Mark.

Therefore the boys in BOTH pictures are Mark and David.

[Brown Deer]

Therefore the boys in BOTH pictures are Mark and David...

by possibly using your estimates made to fit your story.

[WildHighlander57]

Estimates were based on huffpost story linked to upthread.

Pictures are based on the following links:

Article from South China Morning Post, family picture with Mark and David ID’ed:

http://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/article/1453192/other-obama

Cover of advance copy of Mark’s memoir:

http://b-i.forbesimg.com/evacairns/files/2013/12/Cultures-Front-Cover-654x1024.jpg

Picture of Mark and his memoir:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2526243/Drunken-beatings-threats-knife-Obamas-half-brother-writes-book-horrors-living-presidents-absent-father-Kenya.html

The list in Mark’s website mentions ‘late’ brother David, and that Mark met Barack for the first time in 1988; not possible if Barack were David, growing up with Mark in Kenya:

http://www.markobamandesandjo.com/article1.asp?a_id=13