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Israel goes ahead with fence to shield West Bank settlers
Telegraph ^ | 10/2/03 | David Blair in Jerusalem

Posted on 10/02/2003 1:42:50 AM PDT by Mark Felton

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"All liberty flows from the barrel of a gun"
1 posted on 10/02/2003 1:42:50 AM PDT by Mark Felton
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2 posted on 10/02/2003 1:44:06 AM PDT by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
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To: Mark Felton
Apparently the Palestinians must be handled in a manner similar to the way the US handled American Indians. If they cannot peacefully integrate with the Israeli's then their territory must be converted to the equivalent of a large "reservation".
3 posted on 10/02/2003 1:51:47 AM PDT by Mark Felton ("All liberty flows from the barrel of a gun")
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To: Mark Felton
Bad neighbors require good fences.
4 posted on 10/02/2003 2:14:11 AM PDT by sarcasm (Tancredo 2004)
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To: Mark Felton
Sorry Mark, I think your choice of comparison is poor. I don't think you meant the following, BUT:

I hope you don't mean to equate the American Indian, fighting for survival against a government and people that engaged in every immoral and unjust activity to strip their "Creator" given rights by acts that can almost certainly be called near genocide, to the Palestinians, a people who are bent on self destruction, worship the cult of suicide, revel in the death of innocents and are slaves to their "leadership" are you?

The US govt. and citizens of the day acted with utmost disregard for the rights of the American Indian; while the Israeli govt. is by no means free of innocent "Palestinian" blood, they are not engaged in a system of genocide against them, either.

You sound a little like COL. Chivington "nits make lice". The Palestinian peoples CAN be saved from their mad cults of death with time, education and a little occasional help of the cold steel to rid them of the cancer that resides in their midst.

No offense is intended, I hope you meant something else. take care

5 posted on 10/02/2003 2:19:45 AM PDT by Tin-Legions
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To: Mark Felton
Yet much of the planned 370-mile fence, 100 miles of which is already complete, cuts inside the West Bank and runs through Palestinian land.

That's not the problem. The problem is that the land "annexed" with the fence does not include all of the West Bank.

Building the fence here now will allow the Palis to claim the remaining portions of the West Bank as "theirs" from now on.

6 posted on 10/02/2003 2:36:33 AM PDT by Smile-n-Win (Islam is a religion of perversion and a perversion of religion.)
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To: Mark Felton

"For your chants of "Death to America" and for murdering Americans
here is another twenty million dollars and thousands of better weapons.
Do notworry. We will make sure there will be no fence to protect anyone.
Just keep the blood flowing so that my friends at the State Dept can retire
with "pensions" paid by the House of Saud
and I can be President of the World Bank.
"

7 posted on 10/02/2003 2:48:49 AM PDT by Diogenesis (NoIf you mess with one of us, you mess with all of us)
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To: Tin-Legions
No, I don't equate the Indians with the Palestinians.

I suggest similar methods of containment may be appropriate. Both situations require generational change before adequate pacification and re-integration can be achieved. In the mean time containment and control must be had by one side over the other to ensure interim security.

[Thanks for a very polite reply, I take no offense from anyone on these forums no matter how vitriolic.]
8 posted on 10/02/2003 3:08:06 AM PDT by Mark Felton ("All liberty flows from the barrel of a gun")
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To: Mark Felton
Clear!

Unfortunately, I believe the path to peace in the ME will eventually fill the oceans with the blood of many more dead than we have yet seen. The biggest foolishness of modern ME diplomacy is to assume there are moderates who will come to the bargaining table from BOTH sides. While both have their militant crazies, only the Israelis have made any real proposals for peace.

IMO, this mess began with the UN, and is one of it's first failures. If you look at the UN website, they have maps of the original UN mandates on how Israel would be established. Never a more disjointed and ill-designed piece of international folly was ever designed-no continuous borders, enclaves of Arabs right in the middle of Jew areas, ect. and so forth.

While I have no idea what the solution is-it isn't a economically non-viable entity such as the Palestinian "State", I doubt the fence will solve anything.

Thanks for the post, take care.

9 posted on 10/02/2003 3:28:36 AM PDT by Tin-Legions
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To: Mark Felton
There are 150,000 Israeli settlers placed on Palestinean land in the past ten years probably with American taxpayer dollars It is no wonder that the Arabs are mad at us.
10 posted on 10/02/2003 3:56:48 AM PDT by agite rem mente
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To: agite rem mente
There are 150,000 Israeli settlers placed on Palestinean land in the past ten years probably with American taxpayer dollars It is no wonder that the Arabs are mad at us.

The land belongs to whomever can physically control it.

It's been true throughout the history of mankind, and is equally true today. No exceptions.

You can either defend your land or you cannot. If you cannot hold the land by force (with aid of allies) then you lose it. period.

11 posted on 10/02/2003 5:03:16 AM PDT by Mark Felton ("All liberty flows from the barrel of a gun")
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To: agite rem mente
There are 150,000 Israeli settlers placed on Palestinean land in the past ten years probably with American taxpayer dollars It is no wonder that the Arabs are mad at us.
Actually, US policy since 1967 has been that no US foreign aid or US guaranteed loans can be spent on settlements. Bush the Elder held up a package once because he felt Israel's guarantees on this issue were insufficient.

Of course, this doesn't stop the Israelis from using money they would have had to spend on other things. But it keeps America's consistent opposition to the settlements clear and unequivocal.

-Eric

12 posted on 10/02/2003 5:13:28 AM PDT by E Rocc (If we let government take on the parental role, we will all become "honorary children")
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To: Smile-n-Win
That's not the problem. The problem is that the land "annexed" with the fence does not include all of the West Bank
That wouldn't exactly solve the security issue, would it? Unless of course one advocates "transfer", a policy which would force the US to cut off all aid to Israel and would begin an all-out war.

-Eric

13 posted on 10/02/2003 5:15:27 AM PDT by E Rocc (If we let government take on the parental role, we will all become "honorary children")
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To: Mark Felton
prompting Palestinian accusations that it was trying to sabotage the American-backed "road map" peace plan.

I think the Palestinians sabotaged the "road map" all on their own.

14 posted on 10/02/2003 5:47:38 AM PDT by John123 (No, I certainly haven't forgotten!)
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To: agite rem mente
Based on the five posts you have made on FR so far, I diagnose you as a disruptor.
15 posted on 10/02/2003 6:34:09 AM PDT by Smile-n-Win (Islam is a religion of perversion and a perversion of religion.)
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To: Mark Felton
The land belongs to whomever can physically control it.

If by "belong" you mean custody, then yes. If you mean rightful property, then no: If you own something and somebody forcibly takes it away, it is still rightfully yours.

But of course rights are of not much use unless they are enforced.

16 posted on 10/02/2003 6:38:01 AM PDT by Smile-n-Win (Islam is a religion of perversion and a perversion of religion.)
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To: E Rocc
That wouldn't exactly solve the security issue, would it? Unless of course one advocates "transfer", a policy which would force the US to cut off all aid to Israel and would begin an all-out war.

The terrorists have been fighting an all-out war against Israel ever since its founding. The only reason they aren't fighting with more intensity is that they are such damn losers that this is all they can do. What I advocate is for Israel and the rest of the civilized world to recognize this as an all-out war and fight it as such.

They would win in days, if not hours, if they took this fight seriously!

17 posted on 10/02/2003 6:44:04 AM PDT by Smile-n-Win (Islam is a religion of perversion and a perversion of religion.)
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To: Smile-n-Win
That wouldn't exactly solve the security issue, would it? Unless of course one advocates "transfer", a policy which would force the US to cut off all aid to Israel and would begin an all-out war.

The terrorists have been fighting an all-out war against Israel ever since its founding. The only reason they aren't fighting with more intensity is that they are such damn losers that this is all they can do. What I advocate is for Israel and the rest of the civilized world to recognize this as an all-out war and fight it as such.

They would win in days, if not hours, if they took this fight seriously!

It seems to me they take the fight damned seriously, as they should, but also distinguish between Palestinians making war on them and Palestinians who are not (at least to a degree).

What would you propose they do differently?

-Eric

18 posted on 10/02/2003 6:52:11 AM PDT by E Rocc (If God had wanted us to think for ourselves, he'd have given us each our very own brain)
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To: Mark Felton
"Washington has threatened to deduct the cost from £5.6 billion of loan guarantees

Hmmm. since a $1.00 loan guarantee costs about 5 cents, how does this work?

19 posted on 10/02/2003 6:55:36 AM PDT by cookcounty
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To: Tin-Legions
"education..."

The move to "containment" is an expensive mistake. It makes me crazy that the Israelis speak so little of the ongoing glorification in the PA schools (and the mosques!) of the suicide baby-killing cult.

When they name a soccer tournament after these creeps, they should immediately bulldoze the stadium. When Arafat makes his in-Arabic plea for a million shaheedi to descend on Jerusalem, every Israeli minister should begin his remarks for the next week with his comments on this sick recruitment, and keep it up until the PA initiates a policy of active, ongoing, daily, condemnation of this "suicide-bomber glory" cult.

20 posted on 10/02/2003 7:09:31 AM PDT by cookcounty
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