Let the neo-cons bellow, just bring the troops home

The Seattle Times ^ | 9/24/03 | Bruce Ramsey

[JohnGalt]

Kaiser Bill never would have let Cousin Nicky either a) meet his death the way he did, b) pursue revenge with the White Russians troops and the full weight of the Wehrmacht.

Of course, Wilson got snookered into the war and proceed to set in motion a chain of events that made the 20th Century so bloody.

[L,TOWM]

So the state will, or should "Wither Away", hmmmm?

Gee, where have I heard that phrase before?

oooooh! oooooh! I know! I know!

http://www.anu.edu.au/polsci/marx/classics/manifesto.html

You may also wish to check:

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You anarchists have now crossed the line into being useful idiots for the Islamawhackos.

If being a "statist" is an insult to an anarchist such as yourself, I will happily and proudly accept your "insult".

[L,TOWM]

Still not adequate. I have given up trying to think of a properly expressive and accurate set of words in any language that I know.

[Poohbah]

Kaiser Bill never would have let Cousin Nicky either a) meet his death the way he did, b) pursue revenge with the White Russians troops and the full weight of the Wehrmacht.

That would only be true if there was no stalemate on the Western Front--and the whole CONOPS for sending Lenin to Russia was to end the war on the EASTERN front and thus free up troops for the WESTERN front. Once Kaiser Billy pulled the pin, the hand grenade known as V. I. Lenin was no longer Kaiser Billy's friend.

Even if they'd broken the stalemate in the West, that "victory" would have destroyed what was left of the Germany Army's kampfkraft, and any subsequent intervention into Russia would have been a disaster, with or without White Russian troops.

[JohnGalt]

Not that you would no the difference, Statist, but I am not an anarchist.

I believe in self-government as outlined by the Greeks and Romans and theorized by the forefathers.


The funny thing, really, Statist, is that the French Revolution produced a bunch of ideas, traditionally called 'liberal,' that are standard parts of your world view.

Those of us who bothered to read what has already been written, get a big chuckle out of it.

Some advice, it's a much better (and civil) take to argue that my view of liberty is anachronistic to the current world and remind me that a conservative must deal with the world as it is.

But this nonsense here makes you look like a rank amateur.

[L,TOWM]

But this nonsense here makes you look like a rank amateur.

And I put the "nonsense" and "amateur" comments in the same category as the "statist" comments coming from a utopian anarchist.

You might call it libertarian, or freedom loving or some other fraudulent enticement, but ultimately, your glorification of a non-existent past is on the same level of Marx' glorification of a non-existent future.

Bull$#!+ dressed up as The Ultimate Truth.

[MEG33]

yawn

[JohnGalt]

The Freikorps was able to hold off Red Russian invasions in 1919, and actually retook a couple of cities, I have this 'feeling' that the Wehrmarcht could have yet taken St.Petersburg in offensive maneuvers with the help of the Poles who needed only a promise of a country. Naturally pure conjecture, but the anti-Bolshevick Russians were darn close to winning their civil war, they just lacked the world community's clarity of thought on regal matters.

The effects of the French Revolution rearing its horrible head, I suppose.

In Thomas Fleming's most recent book, Illusions of Victory, he lays out a convincing case that the Allies were ready to sue for peace, had not Wilson been such a sucker and a dupe, succumbing to foreign influences as he did. A settled peace would have cost a couple colonies either way (the German's had lost all but one of their African colonies in battle, and probably would have only requested that they get them back.)

[billbears]

You might call it libertarian, or freedom loving or some other fraudulent enticement, but ultimately, your glorification of a non-existent past is on the same level of Marx' glorification of a non-existent future.

So for the record, you're stating that some form of self government, a limited federal government, without intrusion into foreign affairs needlessly was not envisioned by the Founding Fathers?

[JohnGalt]

It's only natural that your hostility to me, here in anonymous cyperspace, is matched only by your fanatical allegiance to a state that robs you of 60% of your earnings annually and lets the barbarians in through the front door.

Once freed of artificial parameters of what is acceptable debate, you will realize what a crippling effect 30 years of liberal assaults on truth (aka Political Correctness) has really done to the ability to create independent thoughts.

[TedsGarage]

Actually, it wasn't a dagger at Islamic totalitarianism. Saddam's Ba'ath Party was secular, not Islamist. Consider the fact that his second-in-command, Tariq Aziz, is a Christian. If we really wanted to attack Islamic totalitarianism, we'd go after Saudi Arabia and Iran.

[MEG33]

Perhaps you might consider relocating.

[Poohbah]

The Freikorps was able to hold off Red Russian invasions in 1919 I have this 'feeling' that the Wehrmarcht could have yet taken St.Petersburg in offensive maneuvers with the help of the Poles who needed only a promise of a country.

After the US ended the war early, sparing a large number of German soldiers for that campaign...

In Thomas Fleming's most recent book, Illusions of Victory, he lays out a convincing case that the Allies were ready to sue for peace, had not Wilson been such a sucker and a dupe, succumbing to foreign influences as he did. A settled peace would have cost a couple colonies either way (the German's had lost all but one of their African colonies in battle, and probably would have only requested that they get them back.)

Oh, yeah, that's rich.

Kaiser Billy would've demanded a LOT more. You don't lose that many people and experience that much privation without a decisive victory.

Hell, the commies would've overthrown Kaiser Billy...and the whole damn mess would start all over again.

[L,TOWM]

So for the record, you're stating that some form of self government, a limited federal government, without intrusion into foreign affairs needlessly was not envisioned by the Founding Fathers?

Of course not.

I am criticizing the anarchist tendencies of those that believe that they themselves are they only valid government and law, that the federal government has no role whatsoever, and that creating a favorable security and economic climate in the modern world is unacceptable.

Now if you are one of those that believe we lack self government, live under an unlimited federal government, and are "needlessly" interfering in foreign affairs by actually fighting wars with those that wish to kill us, than you are as deluded as Galt.

Not good company, b-bears.

[JohnGalt]

I am a patriot, and I love my country right or wrong, which implies my country can be wrong.

A nationalist does not believe their country can be wrong, and lash out at patriots. Nationalism is considered fairly low on the list of Western virtues as arbitrary and easy to manipulate.

[MEG33]

The love was not getting through to me.You have not liked what this country has been doing since when,the Civil War?

[JohnGalt]

It would have been an interesting question since Ludendorf has such an iron grip on Germany, but I suspect he would side with the Monarchists rather than the Ernst Rohm's in the officer class.

The Italians would have some answering to do since their invasion of Austria was completely senseless--likely they would have gone over to Michael Ledeen's fascisti in the Red model rather than the conservative model (i.e. Mussolini maintained the current power structure rather than a radical redistributionist policy.)

I just don't see any complete and utter goofballs like Hitler and Stalin rising to the top of major industrial countries if the people still had the monarchy.

[L,TOWM]

Once freed of artificial parameters of what is acceptable debate

Ahhhhhh, yes. The ultimate Cult of Rand fallback.

"If you all would stop being so dammed ignorant, you would see that we are the only Aristotolean philosopher-citizens that are in possession of The Ultimate Truth."

Spare me. I had enough of that garbage when I was active in the Libertarian party from 1980 through 1989.

One of the great ironies about the Cult of Rand Anarchists is how elitist they are in assuming that the "statist elites" have successfully "brainwashed" the rest of us "sheep" in surrendering our "birthright of Liberty".

Of course, having no sense of irony or humor is a prerequisite of full acceptance into the Cult of Rand. But that's OK. What the Libertarians, Constitwoshon Party, and other fringe nutjobs lack in humor and personallity, they more than make up for in arrogance.

[JohnGalt]

Love of the DC tax regime does not equal love of country.

My country is the group of Irish guys I have beers and watch the Pats every Sunday; my parents house on the Maine coast, right on the water, where I spend a couple weeks every summer; top-fermented ales from local microbreweries enjoyed with Nebraska beef on a propane grill; my wife and I hopping on a plane to the Rockies for a weekend of whitewater rafting; working a phone for a software company and spending the day in the marketplace of ideas; watching Westerns and the Simpsons.

"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under " HL Menken

[Poohbah]

It would have been an interesting question since Ludendorf has such an iron grip on Germany, but I suspect he would side with the Monarchists rather than the Ernst Rohm's in the officer class.

Oh, dear, Ludendorff just turned up dead...some irate Ernst Rohm sort put a few bullets into him.

I just don't see any complete and utter goofballs like Hitler and Stalin rising to the top of major industrial countries if the people still had the monarchy.

Right. And the monarchy would have gotten popped for their trouble if they didn't bring home the bacon.