Let the neo-cons bellow, just bring the troops home

The Seattle Times ^ | 9/24/03 | Bruce Ramsey

[billbears]

My post was directed at Chancey not you. I was not calling you a statist and until I see more of your posts I would not assume such an insult

Like I did, he will serve those would not bother themselves to protect themselves. Like I did, he will protect the lives and secure the freedom of other nationals as a cost of securing the freedom and safety of our own citizens. Enjoy the protection, you selfish, thoughtless, and arrogant *#%(@#*()@#@.

*#%(@#*()@#@? Wow, I have no idea what that is but it must be bad. Did you see where I stated I did not believe in a strong defense? Did you see somewhere I stated I did not believe in protection of this nation of states? As a citizen of the state of North Carolina, I would be more than willing to defend my state and the nation of states against any invader. I would also be more than willing to serve overseas if so necessary in defense of this nation, not preemptive strikes. But considering the President was not truthful (either through willfull intention or ignorance) on the status of WMDs in Iraq, ties to Al Qaeda, or 9/11, I can not see any reason why troops should be risking their lives in Iraq. Defending us against what? Rogue camel herders?

But your first post to me includes name calling because I dare question the 'all holy' purpose of this President overseas? How dare me? Better just stone me and be done with it eh? Can't have wrong thinkers!

[NeoCaveman]

Well, I've learned to not expect much from "true conservatives" over the years.
Apparently, I should not expect even the most basic level of patriotism.

You can from conservatives but I guess not "true conservatives". I can't believe he equated the military with welfare recipients. Disgusting.

[sheltonmac]

Under Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution, Congress has the power "To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions." It says nothing about conscripting from the general populace.

[sheltonmac]

No weaker than "sell out."

[MEG33]

I wouldn't ping anyone I knew who had loved ones in Iraq to this thread last night because I did not want them to see the despicable statement about our armed forces.Thank you for your service.Thank you to all who stand guard for me.

[Old Sarge]

Our standing army paid for by you and me are not patriots but welfare recipients.

I AM one of those soldiers, you stupid sonufabitch.

From 11 SEP 01 to today, I've been one of those soldiers. WELFARE recipients? Screw you.

You are not worthy of the protection of my bretheren under arms.

[AppyPappy]

It seemed he was saying that we shouldn't complain about our policy in Iraq even if it's a disaster.

But it's not a disaster. It's been an overwhelming success.

[AppyPappy]

Please don't feed the trolls.

[Old Sarge]

Ping for my last.

[u-89]

> If you want to keep a volunteer/hired army with growing foreign entanglements, then the only way is what ancient Rome did - hiring foreigners. Foreigners from poorer countries or tribes will fight for promise of citizenship and modest pay.

Very good point and I believe that is the sole purpose we see for the UN, NATO and other alliances - to be foot soldiers in wars we general. Our leaders have ambitious global plans but want to accomplish them on the cheap. They are concerned with their political viability so they dare not run up our casualties too high and mobilizing the nation is not an option they chose to use as it would invite too much attention to their plans.

Last night on WABC radio in NYC on the Bachelor and Alexander show during the 12-1 hour the hosts and a guest talked about how the Iraq war could have been won even quicker than it was but for leaderships fear of public opinion regarding casualties. Part of the original plan was dropping the 82nd AB on the Baghdad airport on day one but it was heavily defended at the time and the casualties would have been politically incorrect.

Next they had a guest on, Michael someone from John Hopkins, couldn't catch the last name. This guy said he wasn't a neocon but he agreed with them. America is an empire though we don't like the word but it doesn't matter what we call it as long as we run the world we'll all be better off. He said we are too worried about casualties and if we are going to run the empire effectively we have to learn to love war - I'm not kidding. Then he said the following regarding the Iraq occupation "We're losing 3 or 4 men a week - SO WHAT!" I swear on a stack of Bibles that is a direct quote. This guy summed up perfectly the elites view of US troops - utter contempt for their very lives. Hey they got've a world to run, you're a mere speck of dust.

[Steel and Fire and Stone]

Please don't feed the trolls.

Ditto... SFS

[general_re]

It says nothing about conscripting from the general populace.

You didn't say anything about conscription either - it's hardly my fault if you didn't make the point you really wanted to make. You said "the only troops allowed to be called up to defend the nation were those already serving in the militias of the various states," which is patently false given that the Congress has the power "To raise and support armies" and "To provide and maintain a navy".

[Steel and Fire and Stone]

"We're losing 3 or 4 men a week - SO WHAT!" I swear on a stack of Bibles that is a direct quote. This guy summed up perfectly the elites view of US troops - utter contempt for their very lives. Hey they got've a world to run, you're a mere speck of dust.

As compared to losing 3000-4000 civilians a week, yeah, I call that a decent trade, even if it's my life that's lost. Compared to my wife, my kids, my friends, and million's of Americans, plus some incidental foreign-nationals who might accidentially benefit from our interventions overseas, yeah.. my life is no big deal. My kids will understand, and see my shortly when they too, arrive in heaven. Life is shorter than most think.. we are but dust, here on earth for a little while. What counts is what you do with the life you lose, because you will certainly, absolutely, lose it eventually.

SFS

[roses of sharon]

Ignore the conspirazoids.

They assign mendacious, devious and sinister behavior to Bush, Blair, Powell, Rice, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and hundreds of others, who have never shown any of those characteristics in their decades of service.

They assign names such as neo-cons, statists, state pensioners, layabouts, and fascists, to those who believed that sanctions and containment is an immoral policy that consigned millions to tyranny.

Worst of all they depend entirely on the predictablility of a madman like Saddam.

And nary a bad word is said about him.

They are simply the OJ jury, where Saddam is OJ, and Bush is Mark Furman, planting the glove.

[JohnGalt]

I try to ignore them, but they keep pinging me to their latest conspriacy theories about how Saddam was behind 9/11.


Then I go to one of Yonif's threads and he and BrianS. are discussing what hurricanes will strike the US if Bush keeps pushing the Road Map.

Talk about anti-American conspriacy theory!!!

Oh, well.

Regards,

[rdb3]

Worst of all they depend entirely on the predictablility of a madman like Saddam.

And nary a bad word is said about him.

They are simply the OJ jury, where Saddam is OJ, and Bush is Mark Furman, planting the glove.

Outstanding point.

[u-89]

> Under the Constitution, the only troops allowed to be called up to defend the nation were those already serving in the militias of the various states.

Right. They could call up those who had already volunteered for service. The Fed was allowed to use the States' forces - for defense. Don't see anything in the constitution about nation building, evangelism or other missionary work half way around the globe though.

[BullDog108]

"Our standing army paid for by you and me are not patriots but welfare recipients."---Burkeman1

Hey, B-man! Go f**k yourself!

[aculeus]

False, idiotic, and disgraceful.

Yes.

[Billthedrill]

Note: Saddy gassed the Kurds in the 80s when he was our ally...

1988, actually, and at that point he was far from our ally. But I concede the point - what happened after 1991 involved machine guns and helicopters. I'm not sure the Kurds thought it a great deal better.