Ministers Who Say Judge Moore Acted Improperly Need To Tear Daniel Six Out Of Their Bibles!

Food For Thought From The Chuck Wagon ^ | Aug 29, 2003 | Chuck Baldwin

[xzins]

I am amazed at how many Christians on FR are opposing Judge Moore. It saddens me.

[xzins]

What do the "property rights" folks teach? (I say this as a novice.....not argumentatively.)

[lugsoul]

"An establishment of religion is a state church."

That's not all the Founders thought qualified.

[xzins]

I'm a strict constructionist at heart, LS. I've heard and read all about this Founder said this and this founder said that. Some were more stringent, some where less stringent and some were in the middle.

I've read of the transition of the "establishment clause" through the various drafts. Always it was either "establishing" a religion or "an establishment" of religion.

My point: No matter which one we can dredge up, the final words that were chosen are these:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Those words SAY what the compromise of the Founders finally WAS. They say, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."

Cut and dried.

The words of the 2nd amendment are equally clear: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

They mean what they say. They don't mean what they "can" be "interpreted" to say.

[lugsoul]

And "respecting an establishment" does NOT mean "establishing." Not in anyone's English.

[xzins]

It was one of the preliminary draft wordings of the clause.

"Regarding an establishment of religion" is the meaning, with "establishment" being a gerund.

In any case, Judge Moore's artwork doesn't cause someone in Birmingham to be forced to go to the "Great Church of the Indomitable X."

There is no establishment of religion.

[editor-surveyor]

The essence of the Property Rights movement is to fight the world government sponsored attack on American ranchers. Most of the attack centers on grazing rights, which the pagans are attempting to errode in order to 're-wild' the Earth.

The connection to Judge Moore is that we essentially a Christian organization, and very activist, so many of our group have gone down to Alabama in support.

[editor-surveyor]

"They - including Madison on numerous occasions - specifically wrote against the use of tax dollars collected from non-Christians to support the promotion of Christianity."

Smokescreen! Cite specific references.

All of the founders spoke out strongly against using tax dollars to support anything but the enumerated functions and powers as listed in the constitution.

[xzins]

Did you see my math on so-called world population pressure? In short, there are about 6.3 billion people in the world. In just the state of Texas, we have 7.5 trillion square feet of property. That averages to about 1200 square feet per person.

If you assume a family of 3, we could fit everyone in the world into the state of Texas and put them in a nice little home of 1200 sq ft, with a front and back yard of 1200 sq ft each.

And then you have the rest of the entire world to put ranchers and farmers on to grow food.

The enviro-wacko folks are liars.

[snerkel]

I disagree. The decree that Darius sent out was based on the jealousy of the other presidents of the land. They knew that Daniel was the favorite to Darius and could find no way to bump him off, so they tricked Darius into sending out the decree by working on his ego.

So how is this relevant to Moore?

[xzins]

Snerk, the point is that Daniel and Moore both stood for their beliefs despite an official order not to. They engaged in civil disobedience when they felt the state crossed the line.

Since Moore had the right to put his artwork up in the lobby, and since no one would have cared if he'd put up a crucifix in a glass of urine or a painting of Jesus having sex with Mary Magdalene, THEREFORE when they cared that he put up a piece depicting the ten commandments and it's connections to American law, indicating that they were going to discriminate based on his religious views, then it's clear he had to yield to them or to God.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"Don't mess with my worshippers' freedom of worship."

Give me the name of a person in the State of Alabama who is not free to worship God today.

[votelife]

at a rally for Moore on Aug 16th, Moore was called a modern day Daniel. Thanks for sharing this and showing why!

[xzins]

Moore's free exercise has been limited where others have not been.

Other CJ's got to set up the decor according to their tastes. When he set up his decor according to his taste, he received a court order.

[xzins]

Moore is right in this AND he is a brother who is worthy of our support.

[lugsoul]

I'd be glad to - but why do you want to see them if you've already decided it is a smokescreen?

[Pearman]

Can someone answer these question for me?

Every picture I have ever seen shows that the Ten Commandments are engraved on the top of Judge Moore's monument. Engraved on its four sides are quotations from American history.

My question is: Why was not the "offensive" top part simply sandblasted or removed with a special saw? In other words, why was the whole monument removed? Did the quotations from our own history also violate Federal law?

Also, will the Shepardizing lawyers out there tell me what the status is today of the US Supreme Court's decision in Holy Trinity Church vs. U.S. (143 U.S. 457), which stated, among other things, that "this is a Christian Nation"?

[Luis Gonzalez]

I can debate this intelligently, but I will not debate the "choice of decor" red herring.

Moore knew what reaction the monument would receive upon installation, which is why he had camera crews there from the Miami-based Coral Ridge(?) Ministries to film the event, the tape of which is being sold as a fund raiser.

BTW, when other citizens of the State of Alabama tried to add some decor of their own to the rotunda, Moore said "no"...whose building is it?

His?

Or does it belong to the people of Alabama?

It seems that the people of Alabama were not allowed to add anything to that rotunda, so that makes Moore something more than a citizen.

[Jorge]

Please quote this law of which you speak. Because the constitutional language refers only to restrictions on Congress in passing laws relating to religion. It has nothing to do with having a monument to famous set of laws in a government building dedicated to law.

Excuse me? So now the Judicial branch of Govt can totally disregard the laws handed down by the Legislative branch of Govt?
Your kidding, right?

[takenoprisoner]

Wrong

the people of alabama for the most part were perfectly satisfied with the display not to add to nor distract from. If you know otherwise, bring those discontents here now and let them speak.
Or if you are speaking for them, then bring some of them here now, other folks from Alabama like yourself who make such claim.