Free trade's victims turning against Bush, GOP

The Herald Sun ^ | August 25, 2003 | associated press

[BureaucratusMaximus]

How many times are you going to spam that? Its really to the point of beating a dead horse. You arent exposing any new found hypocracy in anyone.

The Bushes are/were 20 times the globalists than Reagan ever was. I think thats pretty obvious to most.

[janetgreen]

I never said I didn't support Buchanan. I did, and still agree with many of his views, too bad you don't. I ended up voting for Bush because I knew Buchanan didn't have a chance. I regret voting for Bush, and won't make the same mistake again. You have a problem with that? Sorry if you do...

[Gunslingr3]

I do not blindly accept their writings

It couldn't be that I comprehend and share their understanding. I'm blindly accepting. Ok. Whatever.

As Mises and Rothbard often pointed out, one cannot quantify human action. This does not mean that people do not engage in activity in which mathematics is not important, but rather that we cannot accurately use math to describe how humans behave.

Take the simple "Lagrangian Multiplier" that we use in basic graduate-school economics to "explain" consumer behavior. Here, economists construct an equation in which one?s utility depends upon, say, goods "x" and "y." The ability to accumulate such goods is constrained by one?s income and the prices paid for the goods.

In determining the "optimal" state that the consumer can enjoy, one uses tools of multivariable calculus to reach a point where "equilibrium" is reached. At that point, the marginal utility of good "x" divided by the price of good "x" is equal to the marginal utility of good "y" over the price of that good. (I have not done the mathematical work on this page for obvious reasons.)

The problem here is that this "solution" is nonsense. Utility (or consumer satisfaction) cannot be measured in cardinal terms. There is no way to take a cardinal measure of someone's satisfaction. I can say that I like chocolate more than vanilla, but I cannot put that preference in cardinal numbers. An attempt to do so is nothing short of an exercise in fraud.

[scottlang]

The Bushes are/were 20 times the globalists than Reagan ever was. I think thats pretty obvious to most.


I second that.

[GOP_1900AD]

So according to you, anyone who subscribes to the concept of true national sovereignty, and is not a Thomas L. Friedman bootlicker, is a Nazi? Yeah man, no more high walls. Yeah man, the Fast World. Yeah man, super empowered individuals, Yeah man, it's way UNCOOL to guard one's olive tree, when, after all, all we really need is a strip mall and a Lexus. Yeah, man!.......

[Mad Dawgg]

'Say what you will, but I will NEVER again vote for the "lesser of two evils" like I did in 2000.'

Yes, of course! Voting for the converse is always the best choice. I mean at least the "BEST" Bad guy gets the prize that way.

[My back yard]

The situation is nowhere as dire as it will be if we don't bring what we can of our capitalism to our southern neighbors. As a Texan I can see it. And so does George Bush. Have you ever been to Mexico?

[BureaucratusMaximus]

As for the Neo-Cons are self destructing, just looking at this thread, all I can say again is who are the people making childish remarks and statements? Personal attacks, or using the race card?

Lets all be sure to rememeber that.

[dogbyte12]

Have you guys addressed once what should be done about Chinese and Indian tarriffs? Have you addressed once about the build-up in the Chinese military that we are helping to fund? They are creating a second airborne division right now on the east coast to threaten China. Have you addressed child and slave labor in China and Vietnam? Have you addressed our government (i.e. us) giving tax breaks, and insurance against damage or political unrest overseas when they close plants down here. No. These things are not issues for you all. There are moderates on this issue, and people like you guys are going to lose them. They would support a tarriff free world, where goods and services move freely. The people we are trading with are not living by those rules, and you all simply won't address it.

A guy that he lost not his job, but his company, because he was not allowed to import overseas to India and China without high tarriffs, but his competitor who moved his plant over there, was allowed to use both tax breaks, insurance, and slave wages to import the product back into the states without all the tarriff hassle, is not going to be heartened when you tell him, that in the long run, they are only hurting themselves by not letting you actually sell things for profit.

That position is an absolute joke. Simply put, you guys won't discuss free trade. The system is rigged right now, and you pretend it's an invisible pink elephant in the living room. I bet 90% of people with questions about "free trade" would be quite satisfied if India dropped their tarriffs, China stopped pointing missiles at us and using slave labor, and our goods and our people could move as freely in their countries as they are allowed to in ours.

An analogy. You tell a boxer, that when he boxes against people whose social security number ends in 1,6, or 7, they have to have one hand tied behind their back, but against them, the other fighter gets to carry a sledgehammer.

When somebody complains, you suggest that they just don't believe in fair sporting. What? Are you suggesting that people who have SSN's ending in 1,6, or 7 can't fight? Are you prejudiced against them?

If India drops the tarriffs, and our government stops giving financial incentives for our companies to move there... not even penalize, no incentives, I will withdraw my objections with trade with India. Is that difficult?

You all refuse to debate these facts. Absolutely always sidetrack, insult, throw out red herrings. In fields such as IT these days, you often aren't anybody's employee as it is, but a free agent contractor. Just a fair clean fight. We can not compete on wages, low safety standards, environmental pollution, etc... when you give tax breaks, and insurance to sweeten the pot, that isn't free or fair.

[Poohbah]

I never said I didn't support Buchanan.

You announced that no one else was addressing your issues in 1999...and you suddenly claim that you jumped ship for Bush.

I ended up voting for Bush because I knew Buchanan didn't have a chance.

I don't believe you.

Too many of your ilk have taken to deception for me to just believe whatever you say.

[Dane]

I second that

And that is supposed to mean something deep in political thought?

[dogbyte12]

Edit last post to say that China is building a second airborne division to threaten Taiwan.

[Texas_Dawg]

I regret voting for Bush, and won't make the same mistake again.

You will be voting to defeat Bush in 2004. Good luck.

[scottlang]

It means that I support and agree with that statement.

[GOP_1900AD]

More naive ignorance on your part of the enemies of the West. Dollars do not know how to shoot, whereas, guns can find many riches.

[Texas_Dawg]

So according to you, anyone who subscribes to the concept of true national sovereignty, and is not a Thomas L. Friedman bootlicker, is a Nazi? Yeah man, no more high walls. Yeah man, the Fast World. Yeah man, super empowered individuals, Yeah man, it's way UNCOOL to guard one's olive tree, when, after all, all we really need is a strip mall and a Lexus. Yeah, man!.......

Did you even read that book? Thomas Friedman is a liberal, not a free market capitalist conservative. In that book he wrings his hand and frets over and over about the loss of "sovereignty" to some states and other crap like that that someone who doesn't have faith in capitalism would do.

[GOP_1900AD]

Whereas, true trolls such as Texas Dawg and Dane, who appear to be hysterical quasi Jacobin Libertarians do not have either a handle or any other sort of grip.

[Texas_Dawg]

More naive ignorance on your part of the enemies of the West. Dollars do not know how to shoot, whereas, guns can find many riches.

Spin it however you want but you are as anti-capitalist as the most rabid socialists. You people and they aren't protesting at WTO meetings by some coincidence.

[Mad Dawgg]

"We can not compete on wages, low safety standards, environmental pollution, etc... when you give tax breaks, and insurance to sweeten the pot, that isn't free or fair."

Duhhhhh.... And you all want more government intervention with Tarffis and laws against moving companies off shore?

How about repealing the crap that is causing companies to leave.

Or does that make too much sense?

[Dane]

How many times are you going to spam that? Its really to the point of beating a dead horse. You arent exposing any new found hypocracy in anyone

Huh that isn't spam.

Seems like your animus should be against Ronald Reagan for being a free trader.

Hey Dennis Kucinich has announced he is agianst NAFTA and repeal it if elected president.

I actually respect him more than you.

At least Kucinnich doesn't play games like you Buchanan Brigadiers do.

Kuchinnich actually comes out and disagrees with Reagan's trade polices, while you Buchanan Brigadiers hate Reagan policies about trade and yet try to hide behind Reagan's legacy.

Can you say glaring phonieness.