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Revising the Alamo
NY Daily News ^ | 8/17/03 | Joe Leydon

Posted on 08/17/2003 7:05:54 AM PDT by jimbo123

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To: AlaninSA
Thank you!

Now I'll remember Goliad.
21 posted on 08/17/2003 8:21:33 AM PDT by headsonpikes
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To: AlaninSA; jimbo123
Check out my profile page for more info as well

http://www.freerepublic.com/~rightlybiased/
22 posted on 08/17/2003 8:23:32 AM PDT by Rightly Biased (<><)
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To: Agnes Heep
I see the honor, but I would guess that the human survival instinct was still strong back then.

I love to go to the Alamo, not only because it moves me, but because I love to see the DTR's ask, nicely, hat wearers to remove same. At first you can see the surprise/shock in their face and then when the lady explains why, they get it, probably more so than anything else would. It's impressive.
23 posted on 08/17/2003 8:23:37 AM PDT by Proud_texan
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To: jimbo123

"You gotta have some black heroes involved..you just gotta!"
24 posted on 08/17/2003 8:34:48 AM PDT by ErnBatavia (40 miles inland, California becomes Flyover Country!)
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To: Pharmboy
Wow! That brings back memories! Thanks!
Was it Fess Parker as Davy?
Was Buddy Ebsen his sidekick?
25 posted on 08/17/2003 8:55:49 AM PDT by joanil
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To: ErnBatavia
Sneak attack!
26 posted on 08/17/2003 8:57:02 AM PDT by joanil
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Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: AlaninSA
"There's nothing wrong with a little shock and awe here and there," he says. "Especially when the movie gets so many other things right."

Kinda like two rights excuses a wrong? Hollyweird thinks just because they have the main characters represented they can tout it as historical.

Thanks for the Goliad piece. Mr. M is a proud decendant of Sion Bostick who was one of the group who captured Santa Anna at San Jacinto. He wanted to shoot him on the spot but the others wanted the glory of bringing in a Mexican soldier. As the "soldier" was wearing slippers he couldn't walk back to camp so the older guys tried to make Sion ride double with him. After another round of cussing and threatening to shoot him, he was given a ride by another. History might never have known what happened to Santa Anna if Sion had his way.

It's disconcerting that history is being rewritten. A few months ago The Discover Channel tried to discredit Crockett for not dying fighting but after the battle (never did understand the point). Interesting that the show glazed over the murders of the surrendered/captured Texicans at the Alamo. The Texas History school texts are sanitizing Santa Anna and pouncing on Houston's faults. The DRT has jumped on the revisionist bandwagon by promoting William Goyens as a runaway slave/black hero through their essay contest - only he wasn't a slave nor was he black. Legislator Kubiak went so far as to write a book on the "slave" Goyens (can we say VOTES?). And the list goes on...

28 posted on 08/17/2003 9:16:15 AM PDT by mtbopfuyn
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To: jimbo123
Sickening. I guess they have to justify why the SW must go back to the Mexicans --- the Americans will be portrayed as the bad guys in this movie.
29 posted on 08/17/2003 9:20:56 AM PDT by FITZ
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS
"If you met him, it would be like meeting Bob Dylan or somebody like that. He had that kind of stature." That statement pretty well sums up the thrust of the entire article. "That kind of stature"?! Bob f----g Dylan? Billy Bob Thornton is a dork.
30 posted on 08/17/2003 9:31:02 AM PDT by mosby
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To: jimbo123
Yet another movie I will never bother to see.
31 posted on 08/17/2003 9:33:53 AM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: jimbo123
Walt is it with the mouse, use to be you could take a kid to a movie the mouse made and you knew it was family entertainmnet.

Now you go to a disney movie and you don't know if you are going to see to homosexuals engaging in activity that the scotu has just said is legal.

32 posted on 08/17/2003 9:38:40 AM PDT by dts32041 (So how do you like taxation with representation?)
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To: jimbo123
The seige and battle of the Alamo is a good example of revisionist history run amock.

Early recounts of the battle give estimates that Santa Anna's army numbered from 2,200 to over 3,000 soldiers. These same accounts state 189 men died defending the Alamo, and caused appoximately 1600 casualties to Santa Anna's forces.

Revisionist now are stating that Santa Anna's forces numbered 1,400 and only received 600 casualties.

I'm sure that when all is said and done, Santa Anna will have single handedly killed all 189 blood thirsty white capitalist warmongers with his trusty saber. All while not breaking a sweat.

33 posted on 08/17/2003 9:39:44 AM PDT by Double Tap
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To: joanil
yes. buddy ebsen played "georgy russell", Davy's sidekick.
34 posted on 08/17/2003 11:47:23 AM PDT by drhogan
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To: Proud_texan
i have read books that say Houston originally sent Bowie down to blow up the alamo, or possibly to decide whether it should be blown up. i have also read that while the alamo battle was going on, houston was politicking at a texas convention, rather than raising an army. i don't claim to know the truth. whatever it was, the men at the alamo were brave, and houston, with a bunch of volunteers, beat Santa Anna, who had a professional army.
35 posted on 08/17/2003 11:51:33 AM PDT by drhogan
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To: jimbo123
While we're at it . . . let's not forget the 32 brave men from Gonzales who, after hearing that 150-odd of their fellow Texicans were trying to hold the Alamo against overwhelming odds, said goodbye to their families and rode through Santa Anna's lines to enter and die in the Alamo. Surely most, if not all, of these men knew when they told their families goodbye that they would never return -- but were giving their lives for the chance of a free Texas.

If memory serves me, there's a monument near the remaining portion of the Alamo barracks from the people of Japan, praising the 32 men of Gonzales.

I can never enter the Alamo chapel without feeling an overwhelming sense of awe and respect.

When Texas declared its independence, I had three generations of family already living there. Count me in as a genetic Texan.

36 posted on 08/17/2003 12:24:03 PM PDT by Scoutmaster
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To: Proud_texan
That is a common misconception, however it is untrue. The delay did not help Houston raise troops, in fact he actually lost troops during the time between the Alamo and San Jacinto. Perhaps you might check the references posted above which will dispell this and some other myths. Also, refer to the book "Sword of San Jacinto, a Life of Sam Houston" by Marshall De Bruhl. In the later on page 177 is a quote in a letter from Sam Houston to his boss, Governor Smith, as follows.

"Colonel Bowie will leave here (Goliad) in a few hours for Bexar (San Antonio)with a detachment of from thirty to fifty men....I have ordered the fortifications in the town of Bexar to be demolished, and, if you should think well of it, I will remove all the cannon and other munitions of war to Gonzales and Compano, blow up the Alamo and abandon the place, as it will be impossible to keep up the Station with volunteers, the sooner I can be authorized the better it will be for the country."

Of course, Sam Houston never received authorization. But it was clearly his intent not to try to defend the Alamo.
37 posted on 08/17/2003 12:55:21 PM PDT by LOC1
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To: FITZ
Sickening. I guess they have to justify why the SW must go back to the Mexicans --- the Americans will be portrayed as the bad guys in this movie.

Your comment here may just be more telling than many here realize.

This latest 'Alamo' remake is just more "PC" revisionist history in the making.

38 posted on 08/17/2003 1:53:21 PM PDT by Ron H. (I'm a LoneStarConservative.net)
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To: Scoutmaster

There where actually 32 brave men from Gonzales this is an account of David Boyd Kent and his Family one of the Brave 32

January-March 1836: Gonzales Rangers and The Alamo. During January 1836, son David Boyd Kent with Ben Highsmith, Jesse McCoy and other Gonzales residents became members of the Alamo garrison. Teenagers Kent and Highsmith served primarily as messengers and foragers since they appeared multiple times both in Gonzales and the Alamo in San Antonio during the month. On 25 or 26 January, David Boyd Kent was in and around the Alamo compound continuing his duties as a forager to supply the garrison with beef.

On 1 February 1836, neighbors Andrew Kent and Isaac Millsaps were judges and Henry C.G. Summers was clerk for election of two delegates from the Precinct of Upper Lavaca to attend the upcoming convention at Washington-on-the-Brazos on 1 Mar 1836 which turned out to be the Texas Constitutional Convention. Present at the meeting were Kent's brothers-in-law and cousins by marriage, Abraham Zumwalt and Capt. "Black" Adam Zumwalt. Other voters were John Ashby, Michael Cody, George Henry Hall, Arthur Sherrill, John Smothers and William E. Summers. Summers with later Kent and Millsaps joined the Gonzales Alamo Relief Force and died there in March. The candidates for representing the Lavaca Precinct at the convention were Ball (Esq.), J. D. Clement, Byrd Lockhart Sr., John Fisher and George W. Davis, who got 7, 7, 5, 0 and 0 votes, respectively. John Fisher and Mathew Caldwell were elected delegates to the convention from the entire municipality of Gonzales and Fisher also served on the Constitutional Committee for the convention.

On 21 February 1836, as troubles with the central Mexican government and the accompanying military actions increased, Indian attacks, theft and vandalism also increased as particularly the roving bands of Comanches capitalized on the diversion of the settlers attention. On 21 February a particularly savage murder and kidnapping east of Gonzales on Rocky Creek in Lavaca County on the Hibbins family returning home from the port of Houston with Ms. Hibbin’s mother and brother from Illinois occupied the attention of the men of Gonzales just as the siege of the Alamo was beginning (Smithwick, Early Days in Texas). Several Gonzales men, including Joseph Kent, friend of the Andrew Kent family and future husband of soon-to-be widowed Elizabeth Zumwalt Kent, pursued the Indian band, and joined with Capt. Tumlinson’s troop in rescue of one of the Hibbins children.

On 23 February 1836, Alamo courier Launcelot Smither arrived in Gonzales and announced the arrival of General Cos’ army in San Antonio. On the same day Byrd Lockhart completed the muster of the Gonzales Ranging Company of Mounted Volunteers. Andrew Kent was in Gonzales on 21 February where he purchased 19 yards of diverse material (check pants, ankeen and domestic), a pair of shoes, suspenders, crevat and handkerchief on credit for a total of $24.13 at Horace Eggleston’s store. He was present at the muster and signed on for himself and son David Boyd Kent. He returned home on the Lavaca River on the same or next day.

On 24 Feb, the passionate and alarming appeal of Col. Travis to all people of Texas and all Americans was carried to Gonzales by Captain Albert Martin who first delivered it upon his arrival on the 25th to Launcelot Smithers who had arrived in Gonzales earlier with news of the Alamo's predicament.

On 25 February a messenger carried the news from Gonzales to the Lavaca River residents and informed Andrew Kent at his homestead that the Gonzales Rangers had been called into service and were to meet in Gonzales the next day. After an agonizing night and a morning argument over the safety of the family with his blind wife Mary, who insisted that they could take care of themselves and that he go to relieve the besieged Alamo defenders, Isaac Millsaps left his family and with William E. Summers came by the Kent place early the next day on their way to Gonzales. Burned in 8 year old daughter Mary Ann Kent’s memory was the parting moment when the family waved goodbye to the three men, a moment, which she related, many times in later life to any one who would listen. The last words Mary Ann recalled from her father were "This time you may see some blood." Like most of the family men who joined the Gonzales Relief force, the moment was one of particularly intense dilemma and personal conflict for Andrew Kent and the family. His oldest son was to his knowledge under siege within the Alamo garrison and the family on the outside edge of the settled colony was in increasing danger from the increasingly bold Indian raids of which the nearby Hibbins depredation was a fresh example. Although of less intensity, violence from roving bands of predatory outlaws, both from the east and south with allegiance to no principle or government was increasing in probability, not to mention the threat from the centralista army itself should it not be contained at San Antonio. Could wife Elizabeth Zumwalt Kent manage with the nine children, three of whom were under six years without Andrew or eldest son David Boyd?

In San Antonio de Bexar on 24 February 1836, David Boyd Kent and another unidentified young man (possibly Ben Highsmith or A.J. Sowell) were moving a herd of beeves they had rounded from nearby ranches to the Alamo when they were separated from the Alamo garrison by the surrounding centralista forces. Cut off and confused about what to do for more than a day, David Boyd Kent returned to Gonzales. On 26 February, Andrew Kent was both surprised and relieved to meet son David Boyd in Gonzales during the muster and organization of the Gonzales Ranging Company. Andrew and David Boyd argued heatedly over who was to go with the Gonzales Rangers the next day to the Alamo. David Boyd was anxious to again join his comrades from whom he was cut off several days earlier. Because of the increased activity of local bands of Indians, miscellaneous outlaws and deserters from both the Centralist Mexican and Federalist Texan armies, Andrew’s primary concerns were the immediate safety of the family as well as the general threat by the centralist Mexican Army in San Antonio. The end result was that father Andrew Kent persuaded son David Boyd Kent to return to the Lavaca River homestead to look after the family and father Andrew joined the main contingent of DeWitt Colony men who departed Gonzales for the Alamo at 2 PM Saturday 27 February 1836. Years later, David Boyd related to relatives that he believed that father Andrew Kent at the time had grave doubts about the chances for success of the relief mission. He related that his father's primary motive was to spare his son and to protect the family, therefore, he insisted that he (Andrew) be the one member of the family to fulfill obligations to the call-up of the Rangers and defense of the Alamo. David expressed regret during his life that he had conceded to his father’s wishes and that it was not him instead who had returned to duty at the Alamo and that father Andrew had returned to the family and homestead on the Lavaca.

BraveGonzales 32 info

39 posted on 08/17/2003 2:10:27 PM PDT by Rightly Biased (<><)
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To: jimbo123
FWIW I just got back from seeing Open Range, and one of the trailers was for this new Alamo movie.

It certainly looks visually striking; can't comment on the plot solely from the preview.
40 posted on 08/17/2003 2:20:22 PM PDT by PLMerite ("Unarmed, one can only flee from Evil. But Evil isn't overcome by fleeing from it." Jeff Cooper)
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