Posted on 08/12/2003 10:21:39 AM PDT by CounterCounterCulture
I'm not sure if RICO can be applied here (Although I would be truly happy if it did!). I think though that there can still be prosecutions of a civil rights nature. I hope some sharp Republican lawyer types are taking a hard look at this incident and can come up with Federal grounds to prosecute.
Do you have a source for this? I would love to be able to shove something like that in the face of every liberal who calls a Republican a Nazi.
Just a minor addition to your post. If the victim of a misdemeanor assault later identifies the suspect, the victim can still sign a complaint and the case can be submitted for a warrant. That being said, people know when they have been pushed or punched. If they told the officers who responded that they were assaulted, and they provided the elements of assault, the officers should have filed crime reports, not incident reports.
Thanks for the clarification although it prompts another question. Does the issuance of a warrant remove the civil liability that's implied in a citizen's arrest before the misdemeanor offense becomes "stale"? In other words, does the warrant mean the arresting agency is making the arrest on "probable cause" versus the latter?
Also, (since I suspect you're with an agency and have the right answers) why do so many SPD officers and their supervisors still ask for a "Citizen's Arrest" on felonies when the Penal Code is so clear that anyone can arrest for a felony even if not in one's presence?
Lastly, we've not heard from Impeach98 since his offer to answer some questions on the 12th. I hope he hasn't been kidnapped by Davis goons. I've cited three Incident Reports and one possible Crime Report that I can find so far. The silence is making me scratch my head. You all might be interested in excerpts from the KFI interview.
KFI Interview - Felony charges for assault on child.
If all these charges are being weighed, why isn't there any effort being made here to back the victims and show the DA there's a compelling interest to prosecute to the max? I'm digging for more hard facts today... a week after the incident. I hope there's more substance than smoke. Not hearing from the players is disturbing at best.
"But be ready for jailtime with a high bail set. Be ready for a nasty trial. Don't expect anyone to pardon you. Be mentally prepared to consider all the legal hoops you need to jump through before you know you are legally allowed to defend yourself."
As to the Easy Off - Don't even go there! The penalty for spraying someone in the eyes with a caustic chemical would be far greater than brandishing a lawfully carried weapon. Just bringing a can of Easy Off to a protest could establish intent and put you away for a long long time. Some of the "advice" being posted here is just way out in LALAland. One wonders why this matter isn't being taken more seriously. I sure wouldn't send this thread out to anyone in a position to help the victims because of the BS being appended to it. Sure, flame me for this observation because I think it important to get to the truth here.
When a case is submitted to the DA's office it is screened to make sure that the elements of the crime are present and the case can result in a conviction. After that, it is submitted to a Judge who reviews it and signs the warrant requested by the Detective who submitted the original case. Remember what a warrant is - It is an order by the Judge to bring the body to the court. Any officer who serves the warrant is acting on the orders of the court, and he is immune from civil liability for serving the warrant because he is doing what the Judge ordered. (Immune as long as there are no further issues, like "malice" in obtaining the warrant, or the use of unreasonable force.)
Probable cause is always an issue when an arrest is made without a warrant. However, if an arrest is made pursuant to a warrant, there is no longer a probable cause issue regarding the arrest itself. An attorney can still challenge the issuance of the warrant, but he has to show the Judge that he made a mistake in signing the warrant.
The statute of limitations on misdemeanors is one year. A case must be filed with the court within one year of the incident, otherwise the case is dead.
"why do so many SPD officers and their supervisors still ask for a "Citizen's Arrest" on felonies when the Penal Code is so clear that anyone can arrest for a felony even if not in one's presence?"
I suspect this is a protection from civil liability lawsuits for false arrest. Officers and their agencies have been immune from civil liability when the citizen makes an arrest for misdemeanors. It makes sense for the officer's Department from a civil liability standpoint to have the citizen make the arrest even in a felony incident. When a lawsuit is filed the officer points to the citizen and says "Hey, he made the arrest and I followed the law in accepting the arrest."
"I hope there's more substance than smoke. Not hearing from the players is disturbing at best."
Any given case can take a LONG time between the reporting of the incident to the issuance of a warrant. And Misdemeanors can take 6 months to get filed in some jurisdictions. If it's hot enough, it can be done fairly quickly. Otherwise, it can take a LONG LONG time and the victims have to keep pressure on the Police Agency and the District Attorney's office if they drag their feet.
And of course a disclaimer. I am not a lawyer and none of this is meant as legal advice. Only a lawyer really familiar with the laws in these areas can give a truly definitive answer. (I hope I answered your questions adequately) - :)
A protest is scheduled near the HQ of the opposition. A bunch of FreePers show up, and many of them have solid metal poles, small sledge hammers, and spray cans containing caustic substances. The opposition party advances on the FreePers who use the items in their possession. The opposition will claim that they were provoked or threatened, even if nothing on film corroborates them. The opposition is found to have had no weapons in their possession. A lawsuit is filed by RAT lawyers and FreePers are individually served and run up legal bills in the tens of thousands of dollars defending themselves. And God help them if they are arrested, even if the charges are dropped. It is more ammunition by the left against them. It is a nightmare beyond the imagination of some of the posters who think they can casually arm themselves for protection.
The only deadly weapons they can have must be CCW permits. And if they actually use a firearm, they must be able to convince the investigating agency that they were afraid they or another would suffer death or great bodily harm. And believe me, the agency and the District Attorney's office will put that claim through an investigative electron microscope.
Impeach98: In message #94 posted on 08/12/2003 10:36 PM PDT, the following observation was made and questions asked:
You lose evidence as each day goes by. Who went to the Sheraton to check their security cameras and angles? Same for the Convention Center... they have cameras that view J Street in both directions. SPD has in car cameras and when the overheads come on, so does the camera... may have clearer video of faces (for identification) than the media and an unobstructed view. Anyone ask?Thanks to a former FReeper and PDN member, the Convention Center security office reveiwed their video tapes for the morning of the incident. The event wasn't recorded. The camera that could have zoomed in, is a pan/tilt/zoom remote and was not aimed in that direction at the time.
It also seems the first police presence was a civilian Community Service Officer who was observing at a distance. Even though they drive a standard marked patrol car, I don't know if they are authorized to use the in-car camera without a request and there was none noted on the call. (Assuming the car was so equipped)
Two calls were made to SPD, one from Sheratan Security and the other a cell phone transfer from CHP. The latter is another lesson to be learned by our people when protesting. Cellphone 911 calls most often go to CHP and have to be manually trasferred to the local police. They often get lost or there's a delay. The Emergency number for SPD is 264-5151 That should be programmed into every cell phone before an event (or the emergency number for the local police/sheriff agency where the protest is to be held)
1. If necessary, and if you can afford it, hire armed security guards - that is, if the security company will allow it. Do not assume at all that the police will be there to keep order or protect you or your rights.
2. Have plenty of videotape cameras with sound on hand. Have some people off at a distance who are not being observed who can secretly videotape the happenings from different angles. Never assume that the police will get it right, which is why it is so important to have as many cameras rolling as possible. Also, expect some of the cameras to be destroyed by the opposition. Note: In the event of a major incident, try not to turn over any tapes to the police until after copies are made. But if they know you have it, and demand it and threaten you with arrest, turn it over.
3. Per your information, make sure that all persons with cell phones know the local police number. You are correct on the 911 calls. Many times they are routed first to CHP and they get lost in the transfer.
4. Have everyone who can afford it carry first aid kits in the vehicles.
5. You must assume that the liberal press will be biased against you in any incident. Select a "Public Information Officer" who can issue a press release or call a press conference to give your side of the story when the liberal media distorts the truth, and they will!
6. Protect Jim Robinson. In any given public gathering of FreePers, it is ok to mention that you are members. Never give the impression that FreeRepublic is the organizer unless it is a fact. The liberal media would like nothing better than to point at FreeRepublic to assign blame for an incident.
7. Carry no weapons for self defense other than what is legally allowable like mace or pepper spray. If you use it lawfully it will be recorded on tape. If you use it unlawfully, that too will be on tape. Be careful!
No, he never was. But Mussolini was a commie before he was a Fascist.
...for what its worth, The History Channel...and the fact that the NAZI PARTY was the "Nationsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP)"; ENGLISH: (National Socialist German Workers Party)...it was right after WWI...when he was a communist, he joined the German Workers' Party in 1921...at that time its aim was to combine nationalist and socialist factions together into one party. :|
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