Prince Charles makes mystery visit to Orthodox church priest

icnorthwales.icnetwork.co.uk ^ | Jul 31 2003 | Eryl Crump, Gareth Hughes, Gareth Bicknell and Steve Bagnall

[Lion in Winter]

I have no idea who that author is nor do I care. Actually, his opinion of the Prince, is of no more consequence than mine or yours, for that matter.

As for the anti-christ.... well, bill-lies clinton is MUCH closer to the mark of the beast, in my opinion.

[Destro]

I know of the theory you speak of and it is based on Nostradamus......

[The_Reader_David]

You obviously don't have much contact with the Orthodox do you? You seem to imply that we are 'unBiblical', a curious charge since we are the living continuation of the very Church whose early history forms the bulk of the New Testament. (Every local church to which St. Paul wrote, every local church to which St. John addressed his Apocalypse, and every local church mentioned in the Acts of the Apostles, with the sole exception of Rome which fell into heresy in the 11th century, has existed continuously as an integral part of the Orthodox Church until the present or until its destruction in the 1920's by the Turkish Republic.) We adhere to the teachings of Christ and His Holy Apostles, and if we don't quite measure up to your notion of following the Bible, perhaps its simply because we read the Holy Scriptures as the community to whom they were addressed, while your notion of 'following' the Bible is to take it, ripped from its organic context within the Church and read it as an axiom system to be reasoned from, rather than a record of the beginning of a way of life in which you participate.

We don't have skeletons in closets, or at very least our hierarchs don't help folk with skeletons in their closets keep them hidden. I will point to two instances of how we handle sexual misconduct which are very much in distinction to both the North American Anglican embrace of sexual immorality and the secretive handling of sexual misconduct by the Latins:

Recently, while drunk, one of our bishops engaged in heterosexual 'harassment' (my own Archdiocese). He has been suspended from all duties, letters sent to all parishes and missions in the Archdiocese discussing the situation, and he has been sent to a treatment facility.

Several years back, two Athonite monks died of AIDS. When the European paperazzi descened on Thesselonica, looking for a scandal, the hegeumon of the monastery made a brief appearance, and read a statement, the core of which was "It is true that two of the brothers have recently died of AIDS. How they acquired the disease we do not know, but Mount Athos stands as it has for over ten centuries as a refuge for those seeking repentence from their sins."

Pick up the newsletter of any Orthodox archdiocese in America, and you will depositions listed after the ordinations. We do not hesitate to apply the Holy Canons for good order and good morals in the Church.

[nmh]

"You obviously don't have much contact with the Orthodox do you? You seem to imply that we are 'unBiblical', a curious charge since we are the living continuation of the very Church whose early history forms the bulk of the New Testament. (Every local church to which St. Paul wrote, every local church to which St. John addressed his Apocalypse, and every local church mentioned in the Acts of the Apostles, with the sole exception of Rome which fell into heresy in the 11th century, has existed continuously as an integral part of the Orthodox Church until the present or until its destruction in the 1920's by the Turkish Republic.) We adhere to the teachings of Christ and His Holy Apostles, and if we don't quite measure up to your notion of following the Bible, perhaps its simply because we read the Holy Scriptures as the community to whom they were addressed, while your notion of 'following' the Bible is to take it, ripped from its organic context within the Church and read it as an axiom system to be reasoned from, rather than a record of the beginning of a way of life in which you participate. We don't have skeletons in closets, or at very least our hierarchs don't help folk with skeletons in their closets keep them hidden. I will point to two instances of how we handle sexual misconduct which are very much in distinction to both the North American Anglican embrace of sexual immorality and the secretive handling of sexual misconduct by the Latins:"

Whew are YOU defensive or what. I don't care what people call themselves, Orthodox or not, that doesn't automatically mean that particular group, because of the label is based on Scripture. That's all I said. Look what YOU read into that. Every human being has "skeletons" in their closet. Every single one. It's just a matter of how bad is what they did or said. Mere mortals ARE fallible.

"Recently, while drunk, one of our bishops engaged in heterosexual 'harassment' (my own Archdiocese). He has been suspended from all duties, letters sent to all parishes and missions in the Archdiocese discussing the situation, and he has been sent to a treatment facility."

IMHO that is the way to handle that situation but YOUR church doesn't speak for ALL and demonstrates that mere mortals are fallible, even in church positions.

"Several years back, two Athonite monks died of AIDS. When the European paperazzi descened on Thesselonica, looking for a scandal, the hegeumon of the monastery made a brief appearance, and read a statement, the core of which was "It is true that two of the brothers have recently died of AIDS. How they acquired the disease we do not know, but Mount Athos stands as it has for over ten centuries as a refuge for those seeking repentence from their sins."

So how they acquired the disease was never determined? I'd bet someone who knew them knew how they contracted aids but doesn't want that to come out. By your own admission this is a tad fishy.

"Pick up the newsletter of any Orthodox archdiocese in America, and you will depositions listed after the ordinations. We do not hesitate to apply the Holy Canons for good order and good morals in the Church."

I don't need to pick up sanitized newsletters bettering themselves. What I know fro a fact is that mere mortals make mistakes (sin) and simply because an organization labels itself as "Orthodox" certainly doesn't exclude them from that fact. Like other denominations they just have to do the best they can. Being "Orthodox" doesn't make on head and shoulders above the rest.

[Aliska]

Your #25. His sister, Anne, was divorced and remarried in the Church of England iirc. If Charles plans to be a reigning monarch, I don't think he can marry a divorced woman, but I could be wrong about that.

[nmh]

I strongly suggest you read THIS thread - especially the part in the article about the ORTHODOX guy who is gay.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/960788/posts?page=1

It just brings home my point that labeled an "Orthodox" doesn't elevate anyone or mean you adhere to Scripture. It't just a label.

[xp38]

When the Queen met Nia Vardalos who created My Big Fat Greek Wedding last year she knew a bit about the subject. :)

[The_Reader_David]

You confound my defense of the Holy Orthodox Church, her faith and practices, with a defense of the sinners who have fled to her for refuge and repentence, or more absurdly with a defense of their sins.

I think it was Fr. John Meyendorff who said of the Orthodox Church "right Church, wrong people." If defending the Church against a charge what she does not follow the Scriptures, which are her patrimony, makes me defensive, I'll gladly be defensive. Quite frankly, I've always thought that the notion that defensiveness was somehow wrong only served those who were offensive.

The label 'orthodox' is neither here nor there, being orthodox, that is right-believing and giving right glory to God, and the fact that the Church founded by Christ through His Holy Apostles is now most commonly called the Orthodox Church or the Eastern Orthodox Church are what matters.

[ladylib]

I read that Prince Phillip's mother is a Greek Orthodox nun.

During Princess Diana's funeral procession, Charles crossed himself in the Greek Orthodox manner.

[nmh]

I confuse nothing. It's you who seeks refuge behind a mortal label - Orthodox. It's ridiculous. Any mere fallible mortal can call themselves ANYTHING and completely deviate from what they are supposed to represent. Sorry to dissappoint you with your love affair with the Orthodox label but you live in a fantasy world hiding behind labels. I also referred you to a thread where someone claimed to be "Orthodox" happily living the gay lifestyle. You conveniently ignored that.

[The_Reader_David]

You definitely confuse a lot. You referred me to a thread where someone who used to live the gay lifestyle but is now Orthodox describes the gay 'celebrating' environment of the liberal Episcopalian church he left as "Hell". Neither you nor I can look into the author's soul, but the piece definitely has the sound I would expect from a committed Orthodox struggling to overcome morbid homoerotic temptation to which he had once yielded. Not very useful for your side of the argument.

I have already pointed out that labels don't matter. Right belief and right glory given to God, being in the Church which He founded, these matter. For my own part I would prefer to simply describe the Church as "the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church" as the Fathers of Constantinople did in completing the Creed. The only real point in the Orthodox label is that the Catholic label was hijacked by the Patriarchate of Rome when it fell into heresy and left the communion of the Church.

[The_Reader_David]

Interesting, I hadn't heard that Prince Charles now crosses himself in the Orthodox manner.

I have, however, observed that Anglicans on the verge of converting tend to do that. I wonder whether he now falls silent when he hits the filioque in the Creed (another behavior of Anglicans about to come East)?

[Jeremiah Jr]

There is some kind of urban legend that the British royal family may be descended from the Tribe of Judah. Maybe the Orthodox cleric he visited was a rabbi. ;)

Genesis 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, A viper by the path, That bites the horse's heels So that its rider shall fall backward.

Judges 5:17 Gilead abode beyond Jordan: and why did Dan remain in ships? Asher continued on the sea shore, and abode in his breaches.

Judges 18:30
And the children of Dan set up the graven image: and Jonathan, the son of Gershom, the son of Manasseh, he and his sons were priests to the tribe of Dan until the day of the captivity of the land...

Habakkuk 2:14 For the earth will be filled
With the knowledge of the glory of the LORD,
As the waters cover the seabed.

And there's Lot's more!

[Alouette]

Samson was from the Tribe of Dan. He was the only example of a "suicide bomber" that can be found in the Old Testament. (Judges 16:30)

[nmh]

If you want to believe that all Orthodox are automatically saved because of the label, that's your business. Silly but your right to believe so.

[nmh]

From my perspective it's the Holy catholic church. I don't recognize the Catholic church.

[The_Reader_David]

Whatever are you talking about?

I am seriously beginning to wonder whether you have reading comprehension problems. You sent me to an article by a repentent homosexual who is now in the communion of the Church claiming it was someone claiming to be Orthodox while living the 'gay lifestyle'. Now you assert on the basis of my defense of Holy Orthodoxy that I believe being Orthodox is automatic salvation.

I said in an earlier post that you obviously have very little familiarity with the Orthodox, and this absurd assertion on your part is yet more evidence. "Call no man holy until he has died," is a dictum of the Fathers, which warns that while we live in this world we can all 'fall off the Royal Road'. The point is, the 'Royal Road' is to be found in the Church wherein are the True Faith, the Holy Mysteries and binding all together the Holy Spirit, which Church as I have pointed out is now called the Orthodox Church, and which Faith is termed the Orthodox Faith. Yes, "Orthodox" is a label, a name, but labels and names are useful for making distinctions, and indeed, by way of the thing they point to, names or labels may even aid in our salvation (the name Jesus being a notable example). The label "heresy" as applied by the Holy Ecumenical Councils warns us way from false beliefs which are harmful to our salvation. The label "priest" used truthfully in a sentence of the form "The priest lives at. . ." tells us where we may go to confess our sins and receive absolution.

Of course it is not by the name or label "priest" but by an actual person with the grace of the priesthood, that we are absolved, it is not the label 'heresy' we must shun (indeed heretics have often labelled the Orthodox Faith as 'heresy'), but the false beliefs it denotes when properly applied. So we are not saved by the label "Orthodox" but by persisting unto our last breath in the Orthodox Faith (which, as you would know if you were familiar with the Orthodox means not merely nominal membership in the Church nor intellectual assent to her doctrines, but beyond that repenting of our sins and living the life of the Church, which is the Mystical Body of Christ).

[nmh]

Just trying to get through to you that being labeled an "Orthodox" doesn't mean anything. If you've got a mental block on that - fine. I know, it's tough to face reality a times ... .

[londonfreashco]

actually Roman church split from Church.

Pope was once pne of the Patriarchs, but he wanted to have a country of his own, to rule and make wars.

so he made Roman catolic church

remember that Orthodox church never burned people for Earth being round.


and there is no Greek, Russian orthodoxy... its one church.. but every bigger nation had its own patriarch..

there is one patriarch: patriarch of Constantinopolis that is "first among equals"


... please also check about Holy fire miracle that is happening every year on Jesus' grave only to orthodox patriarch