White-Collar Exodus

ABC News ^ | July 29, 2003 | Betsy Stark

[Lazamataz]

Much as I hate to say it, Agamemnon does have a point, in that bellyaching here on FR does not solve the problem.

I respectfully disagree. I think enough people tune into FR to make it a significant influence on the American psyche. Also, it is a proper place to vent about and analyse problems in the Murrican landscape. Finally, it's a great place to meet chicks. Oh, no, wait, strike number three please.

It's just that Agamemnon has a way of expressing this in a sufficiently obnoxious way that you're too busy wanting to punch him out to examine what he's saying. This is also why I'm wondering if Agamemnon is really running his own company -- he doesn't display the charm and tact that an independent businessman tends to need to make habitual in order to manage his clients and workers, and to get his pitch across.

The thought also crossed my mind that he is full of feces about his business, for the same reason you cited. People who run businesses don't start off hostile and derisional (or should that be delusional?) in most conversations.

[Lazamataz]

Laz bitter?

Have you tasted me lately? I used to be salty, but now I taste like lemon-lime.

Comes from spraying myself with Pledge all the time.

[Concentrate]

Agamemnon has been nothing but honest on this thread. I think he is someone to look up to rather than criticize. After all one must follow leaders, not losers.

The seeming fact that we are approaching an economic depression due to the competition in the world marketplace gives no one license to disparage successful individualists, even if they do seem a bit boastful.

[Lazamataz]

Laz bitter? You really are a clueless twit.

Besides, I have a phrase that perfectly describes people like that: He's playing his movie on my screen. (IOW: He's projecting like crazy)

[BradyLS]

The white-collar types are the ones that start small businesses and employ blue-collar types. The blue-collar folks were told to improve their skills and move into the white-collar class long ago. Now those former blue-collar types are finding themselves in the same situation with their new white-collar brethren.

That'd make a great Laurel and Hardy skit. Oliver in his blue flannels and suspenders sits grmiacing with a lunch box and a pink slip. Stanley, sad-faced in his white collar and starched black pants, joins him with his own pink slip.

"Well!" exclaims Ollie, "Here's another fine mess we've gotten ourselves into!" Then Stan bursts into tears...

[Lazamataz]

The seeming fact that we are approaching an economic depression due to the competition in the world marketplace gives no one license to disparage successful individualists, even if they do seem a bit boastful.

A few of us are beginning to question his honesty, concerning his business. I don't think a lot of successful businesspeople act like he does.

[AndyJackson]

Much as I hate to say it, Agamemnon does have a point, in that bellyaching here on FR does not solve the problem.... Agamemnon has a way of expressing this in a sufficiently obnoxious way that you're too busy wanting to punch him out to examinewhat he's saying.

My disagreement with Agamemnon has to do with his own political obtuseness. It is kind of an old time calvinist viewpoint that bad things happen to people because their souls are damned. He may be theologically or morally, or perhaps even - perhaps - economically correct that these folks deserve to lose their jobs because they won't go out and start their own successful companies. That position will not win Bush the next election, however.

[AndrewC]

he doesn't display the charm and tact that an independent businessman tends to need to make habitual in order to manage his clients and workers, and to get his pitch across.

One name, Al Davis.

[Lazamataz]

Raiders owner Al Davis? I think owners of teams are a different breed than those that need to make customers happy. They thrive on publicity and nothing gets you publicity in the sports world quicker than being a pr**k.

[RLK]

My disagreement with Agamemnon has to do with his own political
obtuseness. He believes, or asserts, that the economic world runs on shallow platitudes and cliches and looks not beneath the surface of things. Consequently, he operates within an irrelevant analytical system.

[Lazamataz]

He may be theologically or morally, or perhaps even - perhaps - economically correct that these folks deserve to lose their jobs because they won't go out and start their own successful companies.

I am not at all convinced that America, or any other country, can be a country of CEO's.

[AndyJackson]

A few of us are beginning to question his honesty, concerning his business. I don't think a lot of successful businesspeople act like he does.

No business owner, knowing anything about the world order, boasts about a 6 figure income. It's a living - a good living - right up there with a good doctor or a second rate lawyer. In a good year Buffett or Soros have made 10 figures, and in any year going there are a good 6,000 executives in Fortune 500 companies that make 7-8 figures.

[AndyJackson]

I am not at all convinced that America, or any other country, can be a country of CEO's.

Of course not. Someone needs to do the real work.

[MissAmericanPie]

These guys have something that cannot be outsourced. Innovation. It has always been Americas strength, these boys should make sure there is a million dollar price tag on their ability to innovate.

[Lazamataz]

The income tax is now trivial ($45 per year for a family of four earning $40k/yr).

Um, here's another one I think I take issue with. 40k a year with 4 kids is barely survivable in low-cost rural areas of Georgia. I know this because one of my friends is barely making ends meet at that income.

So your statement that income taxes are trivial is not reasonable. I and you are in no wise paying 'trivial' income taxes, in that we can rest assured.

[Lazamataz]

No business owner, knowing anything about the world order, boasts about a 6 figure income. It's a living - a good living - right up there with a good doctor or a second rate lawyer. In a good year Buffett or Soros have made 10 figures, and in any year going there are a good 6,000 executives in Fortune 500 companies that make 7-8 figures.

Excellent point.

[Concentrate]

I'm not advocating the banning of technology, or even offshoring. I'm advocating a return to tariffing said offshoring, which is in the rich tradition of America for the last 200 years -- and has, in part, made America the strongest economic powerhouse in the world.

What has really made the US rich is the fact that we destroyed nearly all of industrial bases of competing countries during WWII, which is why jobs and retirement packages were secure.

The third world has of come of age and is now entering the marketplace. Now that America is forced to compete, all of those perks are being sold to the lowest bidder, unfortunately.

Of course, it's an insane policy to compete with slave labor, as we do with China. The day William Buckley showed up on the TV proclaiming that MFN status being bestowed upon our ideological enemies was a revelation.

[SerpentDove]

>>And may I ask, whom will you be voting for? <<

Bush 1 made the politically fatal mistake of presuming that he would be voted in for a second term, and had a tin ear regarding the economy.

Unfortunately, I find this scenario not entirely improble this time around.

[Lazamataz]

What has really made the US rich is the fact that we destroyed nearly all of industrial bases of competing countries during WWII, which is why jobs and retirement packages were secure.

Well, WE didn't destroy them, mostly. They destroyed themselves, with Russia and France and England and Germany slugging it out until they were punch-drunk. But, otherwise, that is an outstanding observation.

Of course, it's an insane policy to compete with slave labor, as we do with China. The day William Buckley showed up on the TV proclaiming that MFN status being bestowed upon our ideological enemies was a revelation.

Tariffs sure would help that situation greatly. MFN status with China was utter insanity, and what is more insane, was at the time I was indifferent to the granting thereof.

I've come a long way in my political education.

[Dane]

Bush 1 made the politically fatal mistake of presuming that he would be voted in for a second term, and had a tin ear regarding the economy.

Actually, I think the mistake is that people thought that voting for Perot would make a difference. Actually it didin't, but it made them feel good.

That vote for Perot, brought the Clinton tax increase, two liberal Justices on Scotus, the very close implementation of Hillary care, and other liberal boilerplate issues.

But what the hey some are inclined to believe the Carvillian lie, worst economy in 50 years, when the Carter economy was actually the worst in the last 50 years.

But you go ahead get yourself into a tizzy, while ignoring all the facts and machinations of modern American politics.