PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION BAN - THE BETRAYAL IS NOW COMPLETE [BARF ALERT - ANTI-GOP PROPAGANDA]

NewsWithViews.com ^ | May 9, 2003 | By David Brownlow

[Saundra Duffy]

God have mercy. These same Republicans are screwing us over President Bush's judicial nominations, too. Ball-less, gutless wonders.

[Sabertooth]

in a head-first delivery PBA, the entire head must be outside the mother's body in order for the scissors to be inserted in the base of the baby's skull.

Can a PBA be performed on a baby with only the top of the head exposed?

Couldn't an abortionist drive a spike through the gap in the unfused cranial sutures, clear through the head and into the base of the skull?

[justshe]

2. The foolish Roe affirmation was an amendment attached by liberals in the Senate. If this guy wants to find out who affirms Roe and who doesn't, he ought to try looking at the vote on the amendment itself.

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U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 108^th Congress - 1^st Session

as compiled through Senate LIS by the Senate Bill Clerk under the direction of the Secretary of the Senate

Vote Summary

Question: On the Amendment (Harkin Amdt. No. 260 )
Vote Number:	48	Vote Date:	March 12, 2003, 04:03 PM
Required For Majority:	1/2	Vote Result:	Amendment Agreed to
Amendment Number:	S.Amdt. 260 to S. 3 (Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003 )
Statement of Purpose:	To express the sense of the Senate concerning the decision of the Supreme Court in Roe v. Wade.

Vote Counts:	YEAs	52
	NAYs	46
	Not Voting	2

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Grouped by Home State

Alabama:	Sessions (R-AL), Nay	Shelby (R-AL), Nay
Alaska:	Murkowski (R-AK), Yea	Stevens (R-AK), Yea
Arizona:	Kyl (R-AZ), Nay	McCain (R-AZ), Nay
Arkansas:	Lincoln (D-AR), Yea	Pryor (D-AR), Nay
California:	Boxer (D-CA), Yea	Feinstein (D-CA), Yea
Colorado:	Allard (R-CO), Nay	Campbell (R-CO), Yea
Connecticut:	Dodd (D-CT), Yea	Lieberman (D-CT), Yea
Delaware:	Biden (D-DE), Not Voting	Carper (D-DE), Yea
Florida:	Graham (D-FL), Yea	Nelson (D-FL), Yea
Georgia:	Chambliss (R-GA), Nay	Miller (D-GA), Nay
Hawaii:	Akaka (D-HI), Yea	Inouye (D-HI), Yea
Idaho:	Craig (R-ID), Nay	Crapo (R-ID), Nay
Illinois:	Durbin (D-IL), Yea	Fitzgerald (R-IL), Nay
Indiana:	Bayh (D-IN), Yea	Lugar (R-IN), Nay
Iowa:	Grassley (R-IA), Nay	Harkin (D-IA), Yea
Kansas:	Brownback (R-KS), Nay	Roberts (R-KS), Nay
Kentucky:	Bunning (R-KY), Nay	McConnell (R-KY), Not Voting
Louisiana:	Breaux (D-LA), Nay	Landrieu (D-LA), Yea
Maine:	Collins (R-ME), Yea	Snowe (R-ME), Yea
Maryland:	Mikulski (D-MD), Yea	Sarbanes (D-MD), Yea
Massachusetts:	Kennedy (D-MA), Yea	Kerry (D-MA), Yea
Michigan:	Levin (D-MI), Yea	Stabenow (D-MI), Yea
Minnesota:	Coleman (R-MN), Nay	Dayton (D-MN), Yea
Mississippi:	Cochran (R-MS), Nay	Lott (R-MS), Nay
Missouri:	Bond (R-MO), Nay	Talent (R-MO), Nay
Montana:	Baucus (D-MT), Yea	Burns (R-MT), Nay
Nebraska:	Hagel (R-NE), Nay	Nelson (D-NE), Nay
Nevada:	Ensign (R-NV), Nay	Reid (D-NV), Nay
New Hampshire:	Gregg (R-NH), Nay	Sununu (R-NH), Nay
New Jersey:	Corzine (D-NJ), Yea	Lautenberg (D-NJ), Yea
New Mexico:	Bingaman (D-NM), Yea	Domenici (R-NM), Nay
New York:	Clinton (D-NY), Yea	Schumer (D-NY), Yea
North Carolina:	Dole (R-NC), Nay	Edwards (D-NC), Yea
North Dakota:	Conrad (D-ND), Yea	Dorgan (D-ND), Yea
Ohio:	DeWine (R-OH), Nay	Voinovich (R-OH), Nay
Oklahoma:	Inhofe (R-OK), Nay	Nickles (R-OK), Nay
Oregon:	Smith (R-OR), Nay	Wyden (D-OR), Yea
Pennsylvania:	Santorum (R-PA), Nay	Specter (R-PA), Yea
Rhode Island:	Chafee (R-RI), Yea	Reed (D-RI), Yea
South Carolina:	Graham (R-SC), Nay	Hollings (D-SC), Yea
South Dakota:	Daschle (D-SD), Yea	Johnson (D-SD), Yea
Tennessee:	Alexander (R-TN), Nay	Frist (R-TN), Nay
Texas:	Cornyn (R-TX), Nay	Hutchison (R-TX), Yea
Utah:	Bennett (R-UT), Nay	Hatch (R-UT), Nay
Vermont:	Jeffords (I-VT), Yea	Leahy (D-VT), Yea
Virginia:	Allen (R-VA), Nay	Warner (R-VA), Yea
Washington:	Cantwell (D-WA), Yea	Murray (D-WA), Yea
West Virginia:	Byrd (D-WV), Yea	Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea
Wisconsin:	Feingold (D-WI), Yea	Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Wyoming:	Enzi (R-WY), Nay	Thomas (R-WY), Nay

[Sir Gawain]

Because in the case of a breech presentation the naval comes out before the abortionist can reach the base of the skull.

If you're right, then that's great. I still want to ask some doctors their thoughts on circumventing that wording. It needs to be airtight to be effective.

[Sparta]

I count eight RINOs.

[Jim Robinson]

Sheesh! Give it up already. If they do a partial birth abortion and kill the baby, they go to jail. Do you really, seriously believe that Rick Santorum and the Republicans who moved this PBA ban bill through the Senate are lying about being pro-life and that they are actually attempting to dupe or betray the pro-life movement? Anyone who believes this nonsense has a serious problem with reality. In other words, is a raving lunatic, IMHO.

[Sir Gawain]

See #180

[Jim Robinson]

Huh?

[Sir Gawain]

Do you really, seriously believe that Rick Santorum and the Republicans who moved this PBA ban bill through the Senate are lying about being pro-life and that they are actually attempting to dupe or betray the pro-life movement?

No, I don't believe that. I'm focusing on the text of the bill, not any conspiracy theorists or anti-GOP articles.

[jimt]

Despicable.

[Jim Robinson]

Dispicable liars (the author and promoters of this article).

[Jim Robinson]

Looks like you're having a bit of a problem focusing. Perhaps a gastroplexotomy might help.

[CWOJackson]

That's some echo you have. It only takes four minutes for what you say here to echo elsewhere.

[MHGinTN]

The answer to your second question is a sad yes. However, to bring the alive child to such a position before that child naturally 'drops' in uterine position is no easy task. PBA was thought up in order to make the serial killing easier for the aborticutionists. To manipulate the child to a head-first position at the cervical os, then insert scissors then cannula for suctioning the baby's brains is a far more dangerous methodology than the serial killers want to risk, for obvious reasons. But that begs the issue of why these posters like Sir Gawain are trying to continue the distrust; this is a lesson in political attack much more than a discussion regarding partial birth abortion.

[Sir Gawain]

But that begs the issue of why these posters like Sir Gawain are trying to continue the distrust

You're the one with the initial distrust of me. .30Carbine graciously answered my simple question in post #180, and also see my reply in #184. You can drop the political enemy crap. We're on the same side.

[Jim Robinson]

Yup. It's obviously a political attack and it's the usual suspects involved. Amazing how willing they are to join forces with the abortionists.

[Sabertooth]

The answer to your second question is a sad yes. However, to bring the alive child to such a position before that child naturally 'drops' in uterine position is no easy task. PBA was thought up in order to make the serial killing easier for the aborticutionists. To manipulate the child to a head-first position at the cervical os, then insert scissors then cannula for suctioning the baby's brains is a far more dangerous methodology than the serial killers want to risk, for obvious reasons. But that begs the issue of why these posters like Sir Gawain are trying to continue the distrust; this is a lesson in political attack much more than a discussion regarding partial birth abortion.

First, medical techniques advance all the time. Necessity being what it is to invention, I'm certain the abortionists will come up with ways around the language of this bill. Tragically. Doesn't mean the bill's no good, I confess I'm not really up to speed on the various nuances.

Second, I think you're giving Gawain a bad rap, frankly. He's asking some questions about the medical procedures involved, and not many among us are qualified to answer those questions without equivocation. That's why I flagged a couple of medical pros to my own post.

Let's say, hypothetically, that the net effect of this bill on the annual number of PBAs was zero. Would that necessarily call into question the integrity of well-intentioned legislator who voted in favor of it? Definitely not.

I'm not predicting that will be the net effect, to that I plead ignorance. I'm just suggesting that one can't presume to know Gawain's motives simply because he raised a valid question about the medical procedures involved, about which many of us are ignorant.

Fair enough?

[.30Carbine]

Bummer that you beat me. TigersEye and I were 'having a discussion' about the keyboard!!!

Saber, think about what you are asking. If an abortionist wanted to get around this PBA ban, could he/she REALLY deliver just the rounded top of the baby's skull, puncture and suction it out?

Picture it. How would the abortionist prevent the pounding of the spike in the top of the head from driving the baby back up inside the mother's body?

How would the abortionist get the suction to the hole before the contents of the baby's skull started leaking back into the mother, causing serious complications, infection?

To what would the abortionist attach forceps so that once the baby's brains are out and the baby is dead he/she could extract the body?

I think you are really stretching it.

I hope that you will come to celebrate the success of the Right to Life movement with this legislation. It is a good start.

[William Wallace]

Can you show me a doctor that says he can't do a D&X without exposing the navel? Can you show how this bill will ban D&E's, which are just as gruesome as D&X's?

*sigh* Try sometime to write legislation that will withstand Clintonian hairsplitting. It can't be done. The drafters' aim was a tad more modest but daunting enough for mere mortals: i.e., write a PBA law that will withstand constitutional scrutiny by the current SCOTUS. If O'Connor who wrote the majority opinion in Stenberg is true to her word, they will have succeeded.

Since D and E procedures are typically performed as late as the 24th week (Taber's/Medline/various other sources), I've already stated the law wouldn't achieve as much. It also doesn't roll back rent control laws or the designated hitter rule, among other failings.

[honeygrl]

We were promised a ban on partial birth abortions. This bill bans partial birth abortions. Therefore we have been betrayed

From the part I read, it doesn't ban them though..

In what can only be described as the mildest abortion restrictions that one could possibly put into words, Sec.1531 instructs the "doctor" to make sure and kill the child before "in the case of a head-first presentation, the entire fetal head is outside the body of the mother". Or "in the case of breech presentation", make sure the child is killed before "any part of the fetal trunk past the navel is outside the body of the mother". (Actual text of SB S.3 in quotes)