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Minnesota CCW: Editorial: New right to carry / A bad idea is now a bad law
Minneapolis Star-Tribune ^ | May 29, 2003 | Minneapolis Star-Tribune

Posted on 05/29/2003 12:09:47 PM PDT by jdege

Edited on 04/13/2004 3:39:25 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

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To: jdege
That's because it is a really stupid law that rights no wrong, cures no ill.

Yeah - equal protection under law as specified by State statute. Who needs that?

Let's continue to let the caprices of minor public officials decide who gets to exercise their rights.

That's so much more equitable for the citizens of Minnesota.

/sarcasm

21 posted on 05/29/2003 12:45:24 PM PDT by Legion
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To: jdege
The law declares that the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution confers the right of individuals to bear arms -- something to which the U.S. Supreme Court has never agreed. And, curiously, in pursuit of a radical assertion of that "right,"

Stop it right there. The actual battle lies here, not in the CCW bill.

22 posted on 05/29/2003 12:45:37 PM PDT by dirtboy (someone kidnapped dirtboy and replaced him with an exact replica)
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To: dirtboy
Holy Cow....the U.S Supreme Court has never decided the matter. As usual, its like the Red Star editors to flat out lie to their readers without a stitch of shame on the issue of Second Amendment jurisprudence. Somewhere Jayson Blair must be beaming.
23 posted on 05/29/2003 12:48:13 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: rightwingreligiousfanatic
That is a fantastic bumber sticker! Are they actually available?

Remember the anti-SUV freaks that started putting bumper stickers on SUV's and claimed they weren't defacing private property? Well, this would be a great sticker to covertly put on Lefty-mobiles that sport all of the 'Visualize World Peace' and 'Bush is not my President' rot.

Let the criminals and predators know who is safe to rob, rape and kill - after all, it's the only honest thing to do.
24 posted on 05/29/2003 12:52:00 PM PDT by WorkingClassFilth (Defund NPR, PBS and the LSC.)
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To: goldstategop
Perhaps there is life after the NYT for little snot-nosed Jayson.
25 posted on 05/29/2003 12:57:01 PM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: jdege
The law declares that the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution confers the right of individuals to bear arms -- something to which the U.S. Supreme Court has never agreed. And, curiously, in pursuit of a radical assertion of that "right," the folks behind this new Minnesota law trample on other rights.

Take private property rights, for example. That's something most supporters of gun rights typically feel passionate about. But this gun law prohibits the owners of a rental property, for example, from denying tenants and guests the right to carry pistols. The tenant's statutory gun right trumps the owner's constitutional property rights.

If the 'right of the people' in the 2nd Amendment is not about the right of individuals, then the 'right of the people' in the 1st, 4th, 9th and 10th Amendments are for businesses, politicians, municipalities and governments. This editorial writer doesn't know what he's writing about!!!

What the private property rights aspect of this is, is that when an owner of a property rents a property out to tenants, the right to keep/bear arms in that property is transferred to the renter as well, for the duration of the rental agreement.

26 posted on 05/29/2003 1:12:20 PM PDT by Frohickey
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To: dirtboy

Stop it right there. The actual battle lies here, not in the CCW bill.

Yep.

The law in Minnesota regarding RKBA was set by the Minnesota Supreme Court in Atkinson v. State (1980), in which the court held:

There seems little doubt that the Second Amendment would have no application to this case. The Second Amendment is a check on the powers of Congress, not the states, and it is not likely to be held applicable against the states via the Fourteenth Amendment. Miller v. Texas, 153 U.S. 535, 14 S.Ct. 874, 38 L.Ed. 812 (1894); Burton v. Sills, 53 N.J. 86, 248 A.2d 521 (1968), appeal dismissed 394 U.S. 812, 89 S.Ct. 1486, 22 L.Ed.2d 748 (1969).

Even as against the United States, furthermore, the Second Amendment protects not an individual right but a collective right, in the people as the group, to serve as militia. United States v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174, 59 S.Ct. 816, 83 L.Ed. 1206 (1939); Junction City v. Lee, 216 Kan. 495, 532 P.2d 1292 (1975). Thus, the Second Amendment imposes no limitation on a state legislature's power to prohibit individuals from carrying deadly weapons, where the prohibition will not interfere with the preservation or efficiency of the militia. See Annot., 37 A.L.R.Fed. 696 (1978).

But the new law includes:

Sec. 27. Minnesota Statutes 2002, section 624.714, is amended by adding a subdivision to read:
Subd. 22. [SHORT TITLE; CONSTRUCTION; SEVERABILITY.] This section may be cited as the Minnesota Citizens' Personal Protection Act of 2003. The legislature of the state of Minnesota recognizes and declares that the second amendment of the United States Constitution guarantees the fundamental, individual right to keep and bear arms. The provisions of this section are declared to be necessary to accomplish compelling state interests in regulation of those rights. The terms of this section must be construed according to the compelling state interest test. The invalidation of any provision of this section shall not invalidate any other provision.

That is, the Minnesota Legislature declares that the Second Amendentment establishes an Individual Right to Keep and Bear Arms, that can only be regulated by measures that meet the "compelling state interest" test.

"Compelling state interest" is, of course, the highest standard used in Constitutional law.

I always wondered why the antis spent so much time screaming about irrational and hysterical things that had nothing to do with the law that was being considered, when there were so many provisions in the law that should have had them screaming.

27 posted on 05/29/2003 1:48:11 PM PDT by jdege
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To: jdege
The tenant's statutory gun right trumps the owner's constitutional property rights.

Umm, the tennt's gun rights are actually Constitutional, any other statutes notwithstanding.

28 posted on 05/29/2003 1:52:09 PM PDT by RogueIsland
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To: WorkingClassFilth
That is a fantastic bumper sticker! Are they actually available?

Yes, available herewww.handguncontrolinc.org

Here's another one of their goodies....


29 posted on 05/29/2003 2:13:40 PM PDT by rightwingreligiousfanatic (Celebrate Unity! One Nation Under God (the Judeo-Christian One))
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To: rightwingreligiousfanatic
Isn't that the sign the state requires businesses to post if they don't want guns on their property? No? It should be.
30 posted on 05/29/2003 2:16:25 PM PDT by randog (Everything works great 'til the current flows.)
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To: WorkingClassFilth
Corrected link here: www.handguncontrolinc.org

Click on HCI catalog for other funny stuff...

31 posted on 05/29/2003 2:19:16 PM PDT by rightwingreligiousfanatic (Celebrate Unity! One Nation Under God (the Judeo-Christian One))
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To: rightwingreligiousfanatic
Sorry.....sorry..... third time's the charm:

The Link that better work

32 posted on 05/29/2003 2:22:04 PM PDT by rightwingreligiousfanatic (Celebrate Unity! One Nation Under God (the Judeo-Christian One))
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To: jdege
Where is the barf alert? After all, this article is from the Star-Tribune.
33 posted on 05/29/2003 2:24:29 PM PDT by wjcsux
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To: The Old Hoosier
What!!! Liberals, concerned about landlords' rights!!!!???
What!? liberals cncerned about Religious rights?
34 posted on 05/29/2003 2:27:37 PM PDT by wjcsux
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To: dirtboy
Stop it right there. The actual battle lies here, not in the CCW bill.
--
Bingo.
35 posted on 05/29/2003 2:51:15 PM PDT by GETMAIN
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To: jdege
"Even as against the United States, furthermore, the Second Amendment protects not an individual right but a collective right, in the people as the group, to serve as militia." [Minnesota supremes dictum in Atkinson, citing U.S. v. Miller]

The foregoing citation to the Miller case is a contemptible lie, nothing less. In Miller, the US Supreme Court upheld Congress' regulation [under the NFA of 1934] of sawed off shotguns on the narrowest possible grounds, stating that,

"In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a 'shotgun having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length' at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument."

The first words of the foregoing paragraph refer to the fact that the defendant[s] neither appeared nor filed a brief on appeal to the Court, so the Court had before it only the government's brief and the record below. Moreover, nothing in Miller supports the proposition for which it was cited by the Minnesota supreme court in the Atkinson case. The Supreme Court went off solely on its laboured and erroneous finding that sawed off shotguns were not militia weapons, and that hence they were subject to regulation under the NFA. For a detailed analysis of the Court's reasoning in Miller, the better to understand the Minnesota supreme court's mendacity and deep contempt for the 2nd Amendment, check the following: http://www.jpfo.org/miller.htm

36 posted on 05/29/2003 3:00:54 PM PDT by Bedford Forrest (Roger, Contact, Judy, Out. Fox One. Splash one.)
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This would be a perfect time for someone to make up a bunch of "Packers" jerseys for CCW backers in MN... It would look somewhat like a Packer jersey, with the words "I'm a Packer's fan".


37 posted on 05/29/2003 3:11:24 PM PDT by Xphantasos
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A bad idea is now a bad law
--
Indeed. Protecting oneself and one's loved ones with the most effective means available is most certainly a "bad idea". If everyone would learn to just follow the nice criminals' orders to "get face down on the floor", "gimme the keys before I cut your throat",etc., then no one would get hurt. Criminals will not hurt you as long as you don't put up a fight. </bizarro world>
38 posted on 05/29/2003 3:22:46 PM PDT by GETMAIN
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To: jdege
Typical Liberal garbage.. If they would take the time and effort needed to scope out results in states where concealed carry has been passed, these criers would be forced to dine on a healthy serving of crow.
Now, a question.. Does this new state law mention anything about reciprocal recognition with other states?
39 posted on 05/29/2003 3:23:23 PM PDT by m&maz
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To: jdege
But. . . at least one letter writer in today's Strib got it right.

A very special section

I would like to make a special request of the Star Tribune. One year from now, on the anniversary of the Personal Protection Act, please publish a special section of your paper in commemoration.

In it, you could reprint all of the apocalyptic editorials, letters from readers and commentaries predicting a bloodbath, and for balance, you could include those few that suggested that, as in 34 other states, no such thing would happen.

We should all, by then, know who was right and who was wrong.

You could also publish a tally of those violent gun crimes that will have been prevented by posting "no gun" signs at the entrances of establishments, particularly liquor and convenience stores.

And if there is still a tiny bit of space, you could publish a list of every single one of the violent gun crimes committed by the thousands of new permit holders.

I will look forward to seeing this.

Jerry Ewing, Apple Valley.

40 posted on 05/29/2003 3:52:45 PM PDT by rhema
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