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US Navy Starts Work on Next Class of Carriers [Brian's Military Ping List]
National Defense Magazine ^ | May 2003 | Harold Kennedy

Posted on 05/11/2003 6:24:45 AM PDT by VaBthang4

click here to read article


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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
The Langley wasn't a carrier when it was sunk, either.
41 posted on 05/11/2003 9:15:58 AM PDT by jdege
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To: jdege
You should lobby the Navy to change their list to your liking.
42 posted on 05/11/2003 9:21:06 AM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: jdege
It was a sea plane tender.
43 posted on 05/11/2003 9:30:51 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
If I'd lobby to have anything changed, it'd be the only six comment.

We only had seven carriers, when Pearl was attacked. CV's 2 through 8. (CV-1 Langley had been converted to a Seaplane tender).

Three of these were in the Pacific, and none of them were damaged at Pearl.

But over the course of 1942, we moved three of the Atlantic Carriers into the Pacific, because the Japanese kept sinking or disabling the carriers we had. Only Ranger was left in the Atlantic, despite the desparation of the submarine warfare there.

Out of the six carriers we moved to the Pacific, four had been sunk by October. And the other two were out of service due to battle damage for extended periods.

Saratoga was in the dock at Bremerton from January to May, and at Pearl from August to November.

Enterprise was in the dock at Pearl for much of September and October, was severely damaged on October 26th, but continued to operate until November 16th, because she was the only carrier in the Pacific still floating.

It wasn't that only six carrier hulls were sunk, but that damned-near all of our carriers were sunk, in the year following Pearl.

44 posted on 05/11/2003 9:42:26 AM PDT by jdege
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To: VaBthang4
Think there will ever be a USS William Clinton?
45 posted on 05/11/2003 9:51:19 AM PDT by jimkress
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To: verity
IMHO the chinese are working on a relitivly cheap weapon that will pretty much obviate the carrier in the same way that the carrier bumped the battleship in WWII. I think the latest attempt was the 200mph "gas torpedo". If this attempt suceeds they OWN their own hemisphere.
46 posted on 05/11/2003 9:54:20 AM PDT by TalBlack
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To: jdege
You need to direct your comments to Teacher317. Nothing that you've addressed to me wasn't known prior to your post and has therefore been a waste of your time.
47 posted on 05/11/2003 9:57:58 AM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: jdege
It wasn't that only six carrier hulls were sunk, but that damned-near all of
our carriers were sunk, in the year following Pearl.


Now I think I appreciate my mother telling me how afraid she was as a little
girl in land-locked Oklahoma about the Japanese maybe attacking her home.

It was a real war and things really did look dark for quite a while.
48 posted on 05/11/2003 10:00:36 AM PDT by VOA
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To: AngrySpud
"After all, Jimmie was a Navy officer, a nuclear officer. And after two Republican names, the liberals will howl for "fairness". "

The USS Scoop Jackson may be okay.

49 posted on 05/11/2003 10:08:52 AM PDT by blam
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To: qam1
Oops! You're right. The Independence (CVN 22) was sunk as a target in 1951... the Princeton (CVN 23) was sunk in 1944. My eyes went to the wrong number. Make that all 6 sunk from 1942 to 1944. Thanks!
50 posted on 05/11/2003 10:12:16 AM PDT by Teacher317
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To: VaBthang4
Hmmm. given our stealth doctrine, I think we need submerssible aircraft carriers using vertical take off jets.
51 posted on 05/11/2003 10:18:29 AM PDT by JudgemAll
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To: Prodigal Son
The US Navy has apparently taken seaplanes out of their planning. Requiring no bases, they could operate anywhere in the world where there is ice free water.

I realize that carriers are the in thing these days, but recall the old saying, " We have the targets and they have the bullets." In this case the bullets are tactical nuclear weapons in the 100 to 500 kiloton range. God forbid that one should ever strike a carrier.

52 posted on 05/11/2003 10:26:45 AM PDT by Citizen Tom Paine
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To: VOA
It was very dark, indeed.

Autumn, 1942: It came down to one Marine, and one ship

53 posted on 05/11/2003 10:27:33 AM PDT by jdege
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To: Saturnalia
The USS Constelation (docked in Boston) and the USS Constitution (docked in Baltimore), Post-Revolutionary War frigates are technically still commissioned ships in the US Navy. Accordingly, we can't use those names.
I will support a new carrier named USS Columbia.
54 posted on 05/11/2003 10:37:56 AM PDT by ozdragon
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To: jdege
Thanks for the link to the article.
Paige got some sort of honor here in Southern Cal. a few months ago. He still
looked like he's still the right stuff.

And the article did the most concise explanation of the late-night action
by the battleship Washington that I've read.
55 posted on 05/11/2003 10:42:35 AM PDT by VOA
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To: VOA
It was a real war and things really did look dark for quite a while.

I was a kid living in a FL coastal town during the early days of WWII. We had to black out our windows and car headlights because German subs were operating just a few miles offshore. Ships running along the coast were silhouetted aganst the glow of town lights before the blackouts and were easy targets. Of course we were never actually in danger of being invaded, but the blackouts and reports of ships torpedoed right offshore gave us the impression that the war wasn't that far away.

I spent lots of time planning how I would use my grandfather's single shot .22 rifle to repel invaders if and when they hit our beaches. I think the Germans and Japanese got word of my plans and that's why they never tried to invade.

56 posted on 05/11/2003 10:45:48 AM PDT by epow
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To: Prodigal Son
The only thing that worries me is the super cavitating torpedo thing.

We researched them and then dropped the idea many, many years ago. Those things move really fast, but you can't make them very smart or adaptive for technical reasons. On a surprise shot you might be able to score a hit with these things with quite a bit of efficacy, but if your target knows you are there these become much more dubious. The US opted instead for very smart and adaptive versions of standard torpedos. It may take the torpedo quite a bit longer to reach the target, but it will hardly ever miss. As you may have noticed, a key calculus of US military technology is to prefer weapon systems that never miss over weapon systems that deliver tons of firepower but aren't that smart. It allows us to kill more with less ordnance in less time net, and we decided that in submarine warfare it was more important to be as smart and lethal as possible with speed coming in second.

I would note that we do have a naval stealth technology that makes solid objects invisible to active sonar, and the super-cavitating torpedos may be a "second-best" technology to counter some of problems you would have if your torpedos can't "see" the sub they are supposed to hit. If your target doesn't reflect acoustics, the only way you can kill it is with a straight intersection shot from a passive sonar target solution, which the super-cavitating torpedos would be a better choice for.

57 posted on 05/11/2003 10:45:57 AM PDT by tortoise
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To: ozdragon
Appologies: The Constitution is docked in Boston while the Constellation is docked in Baltimore.
58 posted on 05/11/2003 10:46:22 AM PDT by ozdragon
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To: tortoise
if your torpedos can't "see" the sub they are supposed to hit.

I'm not really worried about them being aimed at our subs. I'm more concerned with one of those lucky shots taking out an aircraft carrier. A scary thought for me is a torpedo like that being hidden on an innocent looking fishing vessel. I also find Silkworm missiles worrying for this same reason.

I'm sure the Navy is staying abreast of this problem but taking out one of our carriers surely is a desired goal for our enemies. I can imagine Russia developing a weapon like that and selling it to the highest bidder...

59 posted on 05/11/2003 10:59:59 AM PDT by Prodigal Son
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To: jdege
Thanks for that link. Wasn't that the same battle in which Sgt. John Basilone was also awarded a Medal of Honor posthumously? I may be mistaken, but the description of the battle sounds very similar to the one where Sgt. Basilone was killed after single handedly holding his MG position for most of the night against an overwhelming Japanese force.
60 posted on 05/11/2003 11:35:53 AM PDT by epow
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